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R-Evolution III - 3/6/2022


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8 minutes ago, eikerir said:

 

Let's say 50-50 to be fair. Punk's ROH run using that music was around 20 years ago which means lots of fans might not have even been born yet. And content from that era it's not easy to find/stream with original music so I can forgive someone for not knowing right away.

It was a great treat for anyone that lived it at the time tho.

 

25% final offer lol.

You Tube is a thing. Message Boards are a thing. A lot of people who didn't see his run there live have at least seen clips or have an understanding that he had different music. Before Punk officially debuted there were people here wondering and hoping he might use that as his theme. Even if you're only 15 and weren't alive for it, you would have learned through just coming to this message board.

That's all I'm saying. The original post cited 95% and that's impossible.

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The fan cams of it are distinctive in that it’s pretty evenly between people who are confused and people losing their shit the second the song came on. I’d say this is a lot like the Suzuki debut where the enthusiasm from those in the know is so infectious that it wins over the folks who are in the dark.  

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4 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Could be that dog collar matches should be checkers and not chess, maybe?

Would you tell David Lynch his movies would be better if they he were more like Michael Bay movies?

I would argue that, if you wanted something that worked on the level of being nothing more than an empty spectacle, a violent spot fest, that Punk vs MJF succeeded on those terms too. Not enough run ins or low blows, perhaps. Too much letting the moment breathe and not enough bang bang bang pacing maybe. But the depth of story is there for those who appreciate the art.

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Hey, I'm playing devil's advocate still. I don't have to commit until tomorrow. We've got Mammoth Siki vs L'Homme Masque and Gilbet LeDuc vs Der Henker tonight.

However, I will say this: I'm pretty sure I saw the strings.

Edited by Matt D
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I've read most of this thread, but I may have missed someone mentioning this.  Apologies if so.

I loved that Wardlow's FOTR win gave him the confidence, or maybe gave him the financial security (or both), to realize that he didn't need to take MJF's shit anymore.  When he won, I was like, "Oh, that's his out."  

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23 minutes ago, Log said:

I've read most of this thread, but I may have missed someone mentioning this.  Apologies if so.

I loved that Wardlow's FOTR win gave him the confidence, or maybe gave him the financial security (or both), to realize that he didn't need to take MJF's shit anymore.  When he won, I was like, "Oh, that's his out."  

I think a lot of us are expecting for MJF to say that under the terms of the contract Wardlow's title shot belongs to him, leading to the next step of the feud.

If Wardlow wasn't so hot right now, I would like the idea that some suggested that MJF fires him and then tells him about a 90-day no compete clause that prevents him from working for AEW.

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If MJF is getting crowded out of the world title picture for the rest of the year with all of the vets gunning for Hangman, then Wardlow chasing Max for the TNT title seems sound. 

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1 hour ago, (BP) said:

The fan cams of it are distinctive in that it’s pretty evenly between people who are confused and people losing their shit the second the song came on. I’d say this is a lot like the Suzuki debut where the enthusiasm from those in the know is so infectious that it wins over the folks who are in the dark.  

And that's just the hardcores in the building. We really think *75%* of the 150,000 or so people who bought this PPV were watching ROH in 2003, or have since bought a 2003 ROH DVD? I don't think watching a YouTube clip gives you the necessary recognition/emotional investment. 

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Yeah, I had heard that Punk used to have Miseria Cantare (sp?) as his theme in early ROH, so I'm not going to troll and say Punk came out to some 30 Seconds To Mars -ripoff, but I do own the CD with that song on it by AFI. I also have the good one, from 2006, the one with three words typed together.

Ok, that was trolling, but I do still own those CD's.

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All right: lengthy live thoughts. 

Arena was awesome. Not a bad vantage point. There were some issues with some of the stands not selling water thus causing the ones that did to have MASSIVE lines. It definitely started to get hotter and hotter as the night wore on. My buddy and I weren't able to get water until the Baker match and even then my buddy had to miss about 13 minutes of the match.  Arena was sold out, a smattering of one or two empty seats here or there but otherwise full. I haven't been to a live wrestling show since the New Orleans Mania with Rousey's debut and the big indie weekend with Cody vs Omega and the Takeover so this was my first experience with an "AEW crowd." What can I say? It's very punk rock, younger people in the 24-40 range, not a shit ton of kids. There were a lot more females there than the Twitter trolls would tell you, as well. The crowd definitely fit in with the aesthetic of the promotion. 

As for the matches:

- Being there live, I'm obviously higher on Stat and Leyla than the TV audience. First match out so the crowd was jacked (there was maybe 40 percent of the crowd seated when they came out). I thought Hirsch came off way better live than she does on TV. Her charisma comes across better. TV reviews seem a lot more negative, which is fine. 

- So, the crowd was MAYBE 50 percent full when they did the Omega fake out so if you thought the crowd reaction was loud just take that into account how much louder it could have been. Callis is a great, great promo and a guy that comes across like a major league act. 

- Hook and QT was exactly what you wanted it to be. Hook doesn't come across small live. He looked like a really jacked up young kid who you wouldn't fuck with in a bar. 

- Pre-show six-man was so much fun. Buddy Matthews is jacked up. He reminds me of roided out Eddy Guerrero, which is not a great thing. Redbeard was solid as fuck and really held his own. Just a super, super match. 

- Jericho and Kingston was just incredible. Eddie is so, so over. He really is the DDP of AEW. He has that blue collar people's champ vibe. I don't know if he ever should be a champion but the journey of seeing him struggle and overcome and fail and get back up is what pro wrestling is all about. It's kind of that Tommy Dreamer ECW thing. I don't need him to get to the mountaintop because it's all about the journey. He'll never give up and we will never give up believing. It's wonderful. Anyway - match was nuts. It seems it came across even better on TV as you could see the little things they were doing. King using the goddamn STRETCH PLUMB to finish is wild. Even thought that hadn't been established as a finisher I know in the crowd we were all definitely biting on that as the finish when he was cranking it in. Just an awesome, awesome emotional match. 

- Three-way was my Match of the Night. So, The Young Bucks are just incredible. Everything they do is spotless. I'm weirdly hot and cold on KOR. Sometimes I get a little bored with his stuff but him and Fish looked as good as they have in a while. Jungle Boy is the babyface of babyfaces and HOLY FUCK is the Luchasaurus hot tag just the most fun shit. Him coming in and trucking people is a blast. I heard some takes that "the tag match had more crowd heat than better built matches" as a criticism and, I mean, that's also just the nature of that type of matches. It's tons of near falls, big moves. It's pure adrenaline and designed for crowds to lose their mind. Pretty clear that every PPV the Bucks are on they are gonna be tough to beat for match quality and match reaction. There's a reason they are what they are. I assumed a title change so the champs retaining just made it all better. Best match of the Jurassic's life, I think.

- I never liked much of Swerve's indie run but something clicked with him in WWE and it seems to be carrying over. Crowd loved him. As I noticed in a previous post. We all need get a little less screamy but I think it's more that you had 4 matches in a row that were big explosion matches and the back  half of the show had matches that started slow and built to a crescendo. I don't think it's an indictment on show length. I can tell you being there it didn't seem like anyone was tired. I mean - I was at the Supercard of Honor when Marty and Dalton went 845 minutes and THAT was a crowd begging for a show to be over. 

- Ladder match was fun. I'm over ladder matches, though. People like Orange Cassidy a LOT. This night was definitely the most over Wardlow has been, I think.  

- Tay and Jade was fine. Perfectly acceptable wrestling. 

- The dog collar. Okay - so - here's the thing. It definitely seems it came across WAY better on TV going by the reviews on Cagematch and seeing the pundits. It was definitely awesome live and the crowd was fucking rabid for the finish but it didn't seem anyone was thinking that this was a MOTYC. As far as Punk's music, I'd say 30-40 percent of the crowd got it but who cares. I lost my goddamn mind over it. Punk got a huge reaction when he came out. Anyone criticizing it needs to get lost, though. That's the mindset that results in Ripley having to do her stupid stomp and Miz doing his stupid point and every single WWE wrestler having to do their video game entrance forever devoid of humanity and independent of any context. Tony Khan should win for Booker of the Year just for trusting two of his biggest performers to tell a story that literally references decades of wrestling history and allowing Punk to complicate his presentation like that. Live - match was good, brutal. The "you deserve it" chant for Max getting busted open was clever. Crowd was DEFINITELY jacked up for the Wardlow turn. Punk's post-match was incredible too. Swinging the chain. Motioning for the belt. This Punk return is the coolest thing ever. 

- Baker and Rosa was the death slot. This was where people made a mad dash to get water/use the bathroom. I mean, "bathroom break" match is such a shitty insult btw. Where on the card would YOU have gotten up? Inevitably something was going to suffer. I'm higher on this match than most. I think the work was just really, really solid. Finish was bullshit but we all see where it is going in San Antonio. I'm assuming cage match because this is following the exact playbook of the Young Bucks losing the tag belts after months and months of interference wins.  

- Six man was the wildest thing. Andrade also stupidly jacked up. Sammy doing the Spanish Fly and Sting jumping off that goddamn balcony gonna be memories that linger for a long time. Darby's video was incredible and he just exudes charisma and him and Sammy are really, really fast. This was just a party match and the crowd was losing their mind for it. 

- The Battle of the Adams over-delivered in many ways. Knew it would be a good match but both guys are great. Incidentally, the stuff about Cole's size needs to stop. He looked fine next to Page. Hangman has turned into such a super worker. It was definitely your "NXT" main event epic but, ya know, Cole basically perfected (killed?) that formula. Crowd was definitely having fun with the chants early but, I dunno, is it better than sitting there in slack-jawed silence? It wasn't like both guys aren't over. I bought on several of the Cole near-fallsat the end. Hangman definitely was getting booed at various points but it's gonna be hard for anyone against Cole because the crowd just naturally likes him personally.  Crowd was hot for the finish. 

 

So... best show I've been to live. Best crowd I've been around. Best wrestling experience. Best company etc. etc. etc. 

It's like...if the AEW style isn't for you, or TK annoys you, or you find Meltzer's praise for it oft-putting,  or you have hang ups about size, or you think the Elite are assholes or whatever, I'm not gonna waste breath arguing over it. People can like what they like.* But I will say I find it very, very sad that people are missing out on the most exciting time and best quality  in an American wrestling company in decades. If you want to start the clock at the full crowd PPV in Jacksonville in May - this is as good a 10 month run as any company could have and it doesn't look like it's gonna slow down. Not with all that talent. 

 

*actually, if you have hang ups about wrestler sizes and it  hampers your enjoyment of a match I'm putting your opinions in the same box as Disco Inferno and Vince Russo.

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Oh, forgot to comment on Bryan vs Mox. I've said it on the board before, but sometimes I think that Mox may just be THE GUY. Like, you look at his age and what he's accomplished and how he still feels like he's not even at his peak and it feels that this a guy that can be the number one guy in the industry. He has that sort of crowd connection to do so. Bryan is the greatest wrestler alive and possibly ever, as well. 

Regal coming out - you cannot fathom how insane people were going. You would have thought Goldberg had just fucking speared Hogan in the Georgia Dome or something. People were so, so happy to see that man. 

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10 minutes ago, Hagan said:

Oh, forgot to comment on Bryan vs Mox. I've said it on the board before, but sometimes I think that Mox may just be THE GUY. Like, you look at his age and what he's accomplished and how he still feels like he's not even at his peak and it feels that this a guy that can be the number one guy in the industry. He has that sort of crowd connection to do so. Bryan is the greatest wrestler alive and possibly ever, as well. 

Regal coming out - you cannot fathom how insane people were going. You would have thought Goldberg had just fucking speared Hogan in the Georgia Dome or something. People were so, so happy to see that man. 

I jumped off the couch and had a quiet (my wife was asleep) one-person "holy f'ng shit" chant going in my house when Regal came out.

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33 minutes ago, Dog said:

And that's just the hardcores in the building. We really think *75%* of the 150,000 or so people who bought this PPV were watching ROH in 2003, or have since bought a 2003 ROH DVD? I don't think watching a YouTube clip gives you the necessary recognition/emotional investment. 

“I love CM Punk, I’ve loved him ever since he first showed up in ECW! I bought all of his shirts, I bought his DVD, I cried when he left wrestling. I only ever bought a UFC PPV twice in my life, and both times it was because CM Punk was fighting. I watched his movie, I watched his TV show, I bought his wife’s book. Nobody is a bigger CM Punk fan than I am.

Read his Wikipedia page? Now why would I ever have done a thing like that? Life’s too short for that sort of thing!

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21 minutes ago, Hagan said:

It's like...if the AEW style isn't for you, or TK annoys you, or you find Meltzer's praise for it oft-putting,  or you have hang ups about size, or you think the Elite are assholes or whatever, I'm not gonna waste breath arguing over it. People can like what they like.* But I will say I find it very, very sad that people are missing out on the most exciting time and best quality  in an American wrestling company in decades. If you want to start the clock at the full crowd PPV in Jacksonville in May - this is as good a 10 month run as any company could have and it doesn't look like it's gonna slow down. Not with all that talent. 

I'd say that a much better approach is to say that people shouldn't have to feel like they need to watch everything AEW is producing. It's a lot of content. It's a lot of great matches.

Here's one way to think about it: I didn't write up Dark last week but it had a really good Daniel Garcia vs Josh Woods match (and it also had Dante vs Evans and Cassidy/Yuta vs Comoroto/Solo, all of which were very different and had their charms). The way I'd explain it is that if the match was on WWE TV from 2011, it's something that we'd be talking about here for week or months or whenever we wanted to give grief to Shawn Michaels by earnestly comparing him to someone on a C-show. But it probably isn't even in the top twenty AEW matches for the last month, even if you took out the PPV. The product has its problems like any product does but good, diverse matches is not one of them.

Just don't feel obliged to watch everything. Your best match on the show is something I'm probably never going to watch and I'm going to write a few thousand words on AEW matches I liked and watched just this week alone.

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I mean, the announcers did a good job of getting over the significance of the entrance music and Punk's outfit, which is the important part. I didn't know about it when it started (and I didn't care for that period of AFI so I wouldn't have recognized it) but once they explained it I definitely understood what it meant as far as the story they were telling.

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1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Are we going to do this conversation again when Punk uses The Bouncing Souls for his retirement match?

Not if you tell me what song it was

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I wonder if Punk will ever have occasion to dust off the Killswitch Engage song he used for the first half of his WWE run. Not sure if there's any wrestler with a better history of entrance themes.

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Between Twitter and this board, discourse about Punk's entrance is driving me up a wall. It was a cool moment for those of us that got it. If someone didn't get it, don't be a dick to them or act like they're not a good enough wrestling fan cuz they don't have this shit clogging up their brain.

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6 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

I wonder if Punk will ever have occasion to dust off the Killswitch Engage song he used for the first half of his WWE run. Not sure if there's any wrestler with a better history of entrance themes.

Save for Hogan's first WCW theme his stuff is pretty epic dating back to his AWA run

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5 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

I wonder if Punk will ever have occasion to dust off the Killswitch Engage song he used for the first half of his WWE run. Not sure if there's any wrestler with a better history of entrance themes.

I wouldn't bet on it. I like "This Fire Burns", but my guess is that it would bring up memories of his WWE run, which he might want to forget. 

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