DreamBroken Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 20 hours ago, TheVileOne said: The brand split fails in WWE. The reason it fails? My hypothesis: The WWE brand split erodes because WWE genuinely has no true incentive to compete with itself. When push comes to shove, they will have wrestlers move freely between shows, or unify titles when they get tired of having two world champions. Or when one of the networks is getting anxious and wants Brock or Roman on their own show. There are no brand only premium live events anymore. I always thought the original brand split worked really well as far as the competitive GMs aspect, both shows feeling distinctly different from the other and feeling like they were totally separate. It felt like a big deal when guys jumped shows, at least in the 02-06 ish era. I always think of when Angle got drafted to Raw in 05 after 3 years on SD and feeling like "wow it's really been years since we've seen Angle & HHH in the ring together". The 2016 reboot started out really good, but yeah now it's completely pointless and ineffective. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, alstein said: more pure rules matches, and more women. I'm looking forward to the Pure Rules getting some play on a bigger platform. They really need a simple video package to showcase just prior to the bouts. The 'Rules' graphic at Supercard was too much for an uninitiated viewer. I hope they develop some new ladies, but I don't see where the talent is currently that would make me want to see More Women's Divisions matches off the bat. We'll see tho. Having a worker/leader like Martinez to head things up is a nice start. Willow too has been really impressive, and I look forward to seeing more of her. Edited April 23, 2022 by HarryArchieGus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 I am not a fan of the Pure Rules stuff at alllll. That being said, I do think it's a good idea to showcase that as one of the ROH calling cards. You have to differentiate between the two companies. So pushing that division will be an easy way to make a distinction. I don't get a lot of enjoyment out of the extra rules, but I'm also smart enough to realize there are a lot of people that do. It's a good idea. Me personally, I would merge the TV Title & the Pure Title. Make the Pure Title mean more by being the only secondary title. The more rare titles are the more they mean. I would be the opposite of New Japan in that regard. I'd do 3 titles in each division for both companies. AEW would have two world titles (men's & women's) two midcard titles (TNT for men, TBS for women) and two world tag titles (men's & women's) ROH would have two world titles (men's & women's) two midcard titles (men's Pure champion, women's Pure champion) and two world tag titles (men's & women's) No trios titles. No meaningless titles. Parity with the men & women. Parity with the two companies. That's just how my OCD brain works. And tell me Serna Deeb ROH Women's Pure Champion doesn't sound awesome. That shit would rule. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 Lotsa ROH related material (Deonna! v Mercedes, Joe defending TV title, Rrrrhett Titus on Dark) going down on the AEDub shows has me wonderin' on that TV deal. Hoping we get some kind of update on the TV situation this week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Tony Khan is now the official owner of ROH. The sale just closed. I'm not sure what's he gonna do to get ROH on TV. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) Interesting to see the Righteous 'Six-Man Champions' listed. I'd forgotten they had such a Championship. I had to google search to find info on the man on the left - Dutch! Is he any good? I've seen Bateman's antics in NJPW Strong and I approve. Vincent I've only ever seen in Impact, but find him quietly impressive. Seeing as we already have a legendary Vincent, using his last name Marseglia might be an idea to consider. I wonder if the hold-up on a regular TV timeslot was the completion of the sale or apprehension from Warner? Hoping this gets sorted sooner than later. Still very stoked for this reboot. Edited May 5, 2022 by HarryArchieGus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 We're too soon into this run of TK owning ROH to get any answers to these questions probably. But I wonder if The Six Man Titles are still recognized. No mention of them and most of the members in that group are in Impact and CYN right? Also why did they go to the retro World & Tag Titles, but kept the updated designs for the TV & Women's Titles. (I know Women's was previously the WOH Title and this is the first design for that belt). But you know what I mean. Different eras' titles and different logos on everything. I'm sure as time progresses we'll get a more unified branding. Just interesting to me to see this stuff in real time be handled kind of randomly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 The Pure title has always been like that. At Final Battle, due to Bandido being out with Covid, they didn't even have the belt, so they used the "Original" belt for Gresham. Then when they unified, Gresham just kept using the old belt instead of the new one. There was no explanation as to why FTR has the old tag belts, or why the Briscoes used them at Supercard since they had the modern belts at Final Battle. The only thing I can think of is if Sinclair paid for the belts out of their own money and not the RoH money (like the whole big gold fight between WCW and NWA in 91-93). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 38 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said: We're too soon into this run of TK owning ROH to get any answers to these questions probably. But I wonder if The Six Man Titles are still recognized. No mention of them and most of the members in that group are in Impact and CYN right? Also why did they go to the retro World & Tag Titles, but kept the updated designs for the TV & Women's Titles. (I know Women's was previously the WOH Title and this is the first design for that belt). But you know what I mean. Different eras' titles and different logos on everything. I'm sure as time progresses we'll get a more unified branding. Just interesting to me to see this stuff in real time be handled kind of randomly. I have little to no doubt that the company branding and belts will all be overhauled. I'm hoping the new logo goes more in the direction of the classic block letter design than the bad Randy Orton/Goldberg/90s style tattoo of the current. That photo/graphic that was posted comes from the website which, as was mentioned, just updated, so strangely they are as of now recognizing 6 man straps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 Tony Khan probably wanted some of the older belt designs back. I don't expect logo changes or matching up the other belts. The logo on the website for now is the current logo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 I think the rationale could be (note this is speculation) that they want to go back to a time from before Sinclair owned ROH. The logo was better. The titles were better. The booking was better. The stars were better. Maybe it's a conscious decision to distance themselves from the most recent era. Which if it were to be the case.... I'd wager the branding and belts all get updated to the FTR version of the block logo. I doubt it has a single thing to do with Sinclair buying them. Especially since they still used the Sinclair paid for Women's title, TV title, and Six Man title designs. I get that originally Gresham had a logical reason to carry the old design. But once he won the match, you would think they would have switched to the current design if they were gonna keep it around. That's some of the reason why I think we're getting all redone retro titles once things are actually up and running. I really think legitimately the only reason they swapped out the tag titles is for the visual of FTR having the same font logo tights to match the older titles. As in they probably had a talk with TK and maybe he told them he's going with the block design and to get that design on the gear for that night. So I assume they stick with the retro World Title but update the logo to the block logo. Keep the block logo design Tag Titles and update the side plates on the Pure title to the block logo. Women's title will probably get a whole new design with a block logo. TK doesn't seem to like the men's title and women's World titles having the same design thing WWE has been doing. I think they should just dump the tv & six man, but if they keep them I expect updated designs there too. And let's be honest the most recent title designs were all very generic. Like the TV title main plate is flat. Which looks really bad when worn around the waist. The men & women's word titles are both very derivative of that generic independent world title tons of indys use. Yes I'm a belt nerd 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 He could want different era logos for every belt, which would be pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 28 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said: He could want different era logos for every belt, which would be pretty cool. Cool from a fan's perspective,yes. But a nightmare from a business perspective. Branding and marketing your business is very important. If you have 4 or 5 different logos all active at the same time maybe *your* fans wouldn't be overwhelmed by it... but absolutely business partners and potential new fans would be. Belts specifically it may not be that important, because a programming manager at a network probably doesn't dive that deep. Or a new potential fan may not look close enough at the belts to even notice. But if TK has plans to make action figures and market replica belts and things of that nature, it starts to complicate things. I know as just a viewer the average person may not care about those things. But that's an explanation of why we'll probably never see that done. At least not by a competent company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 Buying ROH without an actual plan in place for the ROH titles and brand was a massive mistake. Now they are just throwing ROH out onto AEW programming, and it's not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 1 hour ago, TheVileOne said: Buying ROH without an actual plan in place for the ROH titles and brand was a massive mistake. Now they are just throwing ROH out onto AEW programming, and it's not working. My man.... put that axe away. And settle down on the grinding lol. I know we're in the lack of attention era in society. But TK has legally owned the company for... one day. I'm excited and jumping ahead too. But you need to chill with the gloom & doom over 'no plan in place' and 'its not working'. How quick do you think TV deals come together? How quick do you think TV deals come together when the only company you are legally allowed to do business with is going through a merger / acquisition? It's been one day on paper, and one month in actuality. And during that time Warner Media wasn't going to enter into any new deals. Discovery Warner Bros will take some time to get a deal done with. He may have the world's most thorough business plan imaginable. But it's going to take a few months to take shape. The ROH brand bringing down Dynamite & Rampage is a valid criticism. Saying there's no plan in place and this acquisition was a mistake are not valid to say, yet. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 40 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said: My man.... put that axe away. And settle down on the grinding lol. I know we're in the lack of attention era in society. But TK has legally owned the company for... one day. I'm excited and jumping ahead too. But you need to chill with the gloom & doom over 'no plan in place' and 'its not working'. How quick do you think TV deals come together? How quick do you think TV deals come together when the only company you are legally allowed to do business with is going through a merger / acquisition? It's been one day on paper, and one month in actuality. And during that time Warner Media wasn't going to enter into any new deals. Discovery Warner Bros will take some time to get a deal done with. He may have the world's most thorough business plan imaginable. But it's going to take a few months to take shape. The ROH brand bringing down Dynamite & Rampage is a valid criticism. Saying there's no plan in place and this acquisition was a mistake are not valid to say, yet. I completely agree. I guess opinions change... On 4/20/2022 at 11:11 AM, NoFistsJustFlips said: And I'm officially off the bandwagon of this being a good idea. What's the point of two separate but equal brands? What's the point of taking market share away from yourself?? I hate the brand split in WWE. Doing one in AEW (essentially what two separate but equal companies equates to) is fucking dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 I still think it's fucking dumb to do two separate but equal brands. I'm team developmental all the way baby! But I'm also not out here saying it's a total failure and there's no plan in place and WTF how do you not have a TV deal yet loserrrrrr lol. I have criticisms but I'm also trying to be realistic. I don't think I've ever posted about a timeline or expecting when a TV deal could be done. Or insinuating just because a month has passed and we haven't heard anything yet that there was never a plan in place. Maybe a distinction some don't see, but to me one is a reasonable criticism and the other is unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 AEW and now with ROH has lot of belts now. Their roster is big enough. They really need TV for ROH, so the AEW roster can all be fleshed out more and more people can make TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 (edited) I love seeing a Woods/Yuta Pure Title rematch listed on that recent Dark Tapings. That'll be fun. I hope if the ROH TV deal becomes a further down the road thing that they consider doing more ROH stuff on Elevation. Tully Blanchard Enterprises have now been dormat for over a month. I am also clamouring for more Dalton Castle. And I do enjoy the smooth sounds of Cruise and Riccaboni. Speculation (some Dark Spoilers) Spoiler I'm also hoping from gleaning over the Dark tapings and seeing Rohit Raju scoring a victory that he finds a role in this new venture. So too Leon Ruffin and the Workhorsemen. Edited May 6, 2022 by HarryArchieGus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 There has to be more to this in the future because holy shit does this suck 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) Apparently, this is likely far from the final version and typically these B&W mockups are very preliminary versions of what we eventually get. Edited May 11, 2022 by Technico Support 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 As is it's still worlds better than the current tribal tattoo logo. I saw the mockups that were submitted for Double or Nothing & All Out's logos and they are super basic compared to what we ended up getting. This will get some color and texture and whatever and will look better than the plain vector. But again, even just the plain vector is an improvement from Goldberg's left arm. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 New ROH logo trademark filing 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Blue Dragon said: New ROH logo trademark filing I like it a lot! Similar to the title font from the old Hulk comics. Edited May 17, 2022 by Technico Support 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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