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2022 WRESTLERS LEAVING COMPANIES THREAD (Releases, FAs, etc...)


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2 hours ago, Go2Sleep said:

On top of that, not everyone is going to be a main eventer and NXT has consistently churned out midcard talent for years, most of which can be considered upper midcard that can get occasional main event runs. Sami, Neville, Breeze, Bayley, Alexa, Nia, Joe, Nakamura, Shayna, Asuka, Corbin, Revival, Roode, Ricochet, Black, Riddle, Bianca. If that's not good enough for a few years of scouting, I don't know what is.

I’m not sure I agree with this—and for either of us to know, we’d have to be smartened up on financial calculus that none of us have access to—but I have my doubts that investing 5 years worth of developmental capital into, for instance, Tyler Breeze, who didn’t draw a dime on the main roster, was really worth it for WWE, especially when you could’ve just...not signed him to developmental and signed him (or a veteran Breeze-equivalent) to be a job/comedy guy on the main roster whenever you felt like you needed one. Same deal with, like, Dax Harwood. Why invest 5 years into developing a guy for a position on the card that you technically need but also do not care about at all (tag team wrestler)? Just sign an experienced dude when you need one. Save your money!

It is really not that hard for an Indie vet to learn to work to the hard cam, never use pronouns, watch TV at an angle, and respond like a trained monkey when the ref tells them to act mad/surprised after a kickout. There is no need to send them through developmental for that.

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I'll concede that we'll never know for sure since we don't have the proper data, but I don't think you weigh the entire PC budget against two of the more "replaceable" parts. How much were they paying Tyler Breeze specifically? Probably the same amount they're paying Joe Gacy right now, and I'm betting Breezango moved more merch than Gacy ever will. Even then, I think you're undervaluing Breeze and using the wrong guy to make your point. Finding a steady guy to do the comedy matches on house shows, put over the bigger names, mentor new guys, and (as a bonus) build up enough good will with the fans to get a feel-good tag team push with some merchandising opportunities is worth 50-100k he cost in NXT. They spent the same amount on Tino Sabatelli and got way less for it. I think even a good developmental system is going to be close to 50% busts. Think about all those "new signing" group pics and how many actually even end up on tv, let alone successfully.

When you weigh the PC budget, you have to look at it against the 4HW (by far the HHH era's biggest success), and huge merch movers (Finn, KO, etc). Maybe WWE thinks they can downsize and still get comparable results for the main rosters, but I'm leery of the effect the lack of actual talent and quality training in the pipeline will have over time. Not that it will put WWE out of business or anything, but I think it lessens their chances of finding that coveted cross-over star, since all their previous ones started out being good at wrestling first.

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@supremebveDon’t forget WWE didn’t even have anything to do with Rock or Austin breaking out.  Vince’s initial ideas for both, Rocky Maivia and The Ringmaster, were garbage.  The best thing Vince did for them was get out of their way once both men found their groove.  Now everything is so controlled, these current guys will never have room to figure it out like Rock and Austin did.    Nobody is allowed to go out there and cut their own promos, let alone radically change their character on their own.  So what hope do they really have of ever having a breakout superstar again?

Maybe to put it more succinctly, the biggest stars WWE ever had developed on their own, usually in spite of creative, not because of it. Now WWE doesn’t allow that.  They’re fucked.

 

 

 

Edited by Technico Support
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1 hour ago, Dog said:

I was with you until "they're fucked." They'll do fine as a sanitized IP factory.

😂 

I should have quantified that better!  They’re fucked as far as ever having another massive crossover megastar goes.  They’ll probably be fine generating CONTENT~! featuring 2-3 top guys and 20x as many interchangeable midcarders exchanging meaningless wins until the sun burns itself out.

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2 hours ago, Technico Support said:

 

Maybe to put it more succinctly, the biggest stars WWE ever had developed on their own, usually in spite of creative, not because of it. Now WWE doesn’t allow that.  They’re fucked.

 

 

 

Yeah it's crazy considering when ever they go over the narrative of Rock and Austin they highlight the fact that they got over by finding themselves in spite of their original directions or gimmicks they were given. 

There's no way the Ringmaster was going to be a gimmick that would've been a main event act anyway. Atleast you could see Rocky Maivia as a Main event act if the crowd would have reacted like they wanted that type of babyface. It might have worked 3 to 5 years earlier or even 10 to 15 years earlier as an ethnic babyface in the New York territory 

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3 hours ago, Technico Support said:

They’re fucked as far as ever having another massive crossover megastar goes.

I can see thinking this but like... John Cena came up under fairly similar circumstances and while megastar is too much he has successfully crossed over fairly well.

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I'd thought so, but he didn't mention her in the Buzzfeed interview I pulled up. He did say Stephanie on the Network special, though, so who knows.

Edited by Dog
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It's WWE. If it worked out well, credit goes to Stephanie. If it worked out badly, credit goes to "the writers".

Of course, their big idea to capitalise on him freestyling on a bus was actually just to have him dress as Vanilla Ice for the Smackdown Halloween party that year. It was the fans popping for it that made it his gimmick.

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The Ringmaster
Rocky Maivia, blue chipper babyface
John Cena's "Ruthless Agression"
Deacon Batista
Randy Orton, blue chipper babyface
Roman Reigns, ultimate underdog

I think there's a fair case to make that Brock Lesnar is the only real 'star' that WWE have actually made in the last 25 years using their initial plans. Even then, Brock is a once in a generation physical specimen AND he had Heyman working for him so he probably dodged a whole heap of shit that we've never hear of.

Imagine if they booked Keith Lee the same way they booked Brock all those years ago...

The other legitimate male crossover star they have is Miz and damn it, that dude fucking HUSTLED to get his spot. WWE didn't hand him anything more than the opportunity. For all the hate he's had over the years over his in ring style, I can't help but respect that guy for building the life he has.

Edited by L_W_P
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The one thing I do reflect on is that FCW didn't act like the characters they were coming up with were what these people were going to be on the main roster, we didn't get the Prototype or Leviathan and that was probably for the best. I do at times wonder if the expectation that whoever you are on NXT is who you are gonna be on the main roster wasn't in fact a bit of a problem, that it is better to come up with a blank slate as opposed to already being perhaps pigeonholed.

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3 minutes ago, username said:

The one thing I do reflect on is that FCW didn't act like the characters they were coming up with were what these people were going to be on the main roster, we didn't get the Prototype or Leviathan and that was probably for the best. I do at times wonder if the expectation that whoever you are on NXT is who you are gonna be on the main roster wasn't in fact a bit of a problem, that it is better to come up with a blank slate as opposed to already being perhaps pigeonholed.

True but NXT ended up being run like a super workrate Independent promotion when most of their pushed talent were already established names. 

Even before airing on USA to go up against Dynamite it was to be precieved as more than just a regional promotion that OVW , Deep South and FCW were.

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On 1/10/2022 at 7:58 PM, Technico Support said:

@supremebveDon’t forget WWE didn’t even have anything to do with Rock or Austin breaking out.  Vince’s initial ideas for both, Rocky Maivia and The Ringmaster, were garbage.  The best thing Vince did for them was get out of their way once both men found their groove.  Now everything is so controlled, these current guys will never have room to figure it out like Rock and Austin did.    Nobody is allowed to go out there and cut their own promos, let alone radically change their character on their own.  So what hope do they really have of ever having a breakout superstar again?

Maybe to put it more succinctly, the biggest stars WWE ever had developed on their own, usually in spite of creative, not because of it. Now WWE doesn’t allow that.  They’re fucked.

 

 

 

You can add Mick Foley to the list! He wasn't having any of that Mason The Mutilator crap! He might have been the only wrestler that a had game plan before meeting with Vince! Must have charmed Vince like nobody else!

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1 hour ago, Guest lounging said:

You can add Mick Foley to the list! He wasn't having any of that Mason The Mutilator crap! He might have been the only wrestler that a had game plan before meeting with Vince! Must have charmed Vince like nobody else!

Yes and no.  I believe Foley to be incredibly important to the late 90s WWE, but I don't think they're looking for the next Foley.  They want the next Rock or the next Austin, and won't ever be satisfied until they fin him.  The problem is that The Rock and Steve Austin are perhaps the most complete pro wrestling talents that have ever existed.  I don't think anyone ever played a wrestling character better or more consistently than Stone Cold Steve Austin.  He understood every note that needed to be played at the time, and played his character like a mother fucking virtuoso.  Then you have The Rock, who just went on to be one of the biggest movie stars of the century.  Neither is replicable.  If they were looking for someone like Foley, they'd have a better chance, but there hasn't been another one of those either.  

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31 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Yes and no.  I believe Foley to be incredibly important to the late 90s WWE, but I don't think they're looking for the next Foley.  They want the next Rock or the next Austin, and won't ever be satisfied until they fin him.  The problem is that The Rock and Steve Austin are perhaps the most complete pro wrestling talents that have ever existed.  I don't think anyone ever played a wrestling character better or more consistently than Stone Cold Steve Austin.  He understood every note that needed to be played at the time, and played his character like a mother fucking virtuoso.  Then you have The Rock, who just went on to be one of the biggest movie stars of the century.  Neither is replicable.  If they were looking for someone like Foley, they'd have a better chance, but there hasn't been another one of those either.  

The problem is there have been 60,000 Foley clones, but they don't really understand timing is everything. Foley came around when the advice veteran workers would tell younger guys or guys new to the territory (see what Barry Darsow/Smash told Tully and Arn when they got to WWF) is never leave your feet. I mean Arn told the story on his podcast about Ole getting super pissed about him taking bumps for everything when they started tagging together. Just like when Arn was doing jobs as Marty Lunde, you could see when Mick was a jobber on WWF TV and early in his career in the dying days of the territory wrestling that he was a special talent. There definitely are and have been a bunch of great deathmatch wrestlers, brawlers, and garbage wrestlers post Mick Foley. Some even before. However, some of the guys who came after Mick and were trying to be the next Foley sucked bad. I mean just horrific. They want (or wanted) to be Mick Foley so bad, but they aren't cut from that cloth. At all. Learning your craft just seems to be elusive for many young workers post Attitude era/boom period. That said, it makes me respect that Wardlow and Punk recreated the Diesel/Bret Survivor Series 95 finish. If you're going to steal, might as well steal from the best.

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23 hours ago, Ziggy said:

True but NXT ended up being run like a super workrate Independent promotion when most of their pushed talent were already established names. 

Even before airing on USA to go up against Dynamite it was to be precieved as more than just a regional promotion that OVW , Deep South and FCW were.

That is fair and late stage televised NXT sorta gave up on much of the developmental aspect of the show, and yes certain people came through who were so established (Nakamura, Joe) that they were simply just gonna be who they were regardless of if they were in NXT or WWE proper. I just wonder about the people who weren't that and if in retrospect they'd have benefited from having whatever they did in NXT be less... defining. 

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The thing about Foley was that he probably came across as the more relatable personality inspite of his hard-core style. I didn't get to see his ECW stuff till after the fact but even those promos as a heel in ECW he came across as a real person with a family. It wasn't difficult for guys to try to immulate his hard-core approach but I think the fact that he was established as a down to earth person made fans invested in him. Kinda how Kevin Owens is now. Owens is good as a heel but at the same time as a face people know how much of a family man he is. Even in his program with Cena when he got to the main roster it was established that he was a Prize fighter.  The same way when Jim Ross interviewed Mick to get him over as a face, they established that he was a life long wrestling fan that grew up wrestling with his friends wrestling  in the back yard doing things most of us did growing up as a wrestling fan.

Aesthetically  and Stylistically Foley and Owens for that matter are probably the furthest away from the idealistic top guy in WWE and Vinces mind specifically I think that is so endearing

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I don't think it's a big shock that most of the biggest names that came up from NXT have switched their characters up from what they were on once they got the main roster or didn't spend that much time on NXT TV.

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There is a chance that it is part of whatever this new gimmick he is doing is

He tweeted this back in Nov

Which was a promo that got edited off of SDL

I mean the NEWZ~! is reporting it as a shoot but who knows

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I sincerely hope this is a legitimate story, Ali gets his release, and after the no compete he goes to AEW because motherfucker has everything needed to be a top star and, by most everything I've heard, is an incredibly fucking awesome human being as well so dude deserves it. 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

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Does going public and asking for your release via social media ever work out well?  

Personally, I feel like it should be a private conversation between Vince and Ali.  Or maybe he tried that already.  I really don't see Vince as being to the type to release a guy because he's taking the conversation public.  Actually, if I was talent, I'd expect Vince to be annoyed and keep me under contract out of spite.

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