Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

January 2022 Discussion of Wrestling


Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Mister TV said:

Also, the reason Sarge came back to the WWF was due to his GI JOE contract ending and Vince wanting to once again steal a headliner from Verne Gagne.

also the heel ranks in the WWF were a bit thin for the Warrior run, Rick Rude was out of the WWF shortly after Slaughter came back.

But yeah, we were denied a world where Slaughter reminded us that Hulk Hogan wore red and yellow, just like the commies, and that's why he's standing up for commie pinkos like Nikolai Volkoff.

As for Gunther vs GUNTHER... if any company would insist that the all-caps spelling only be acknowledged if he was currently holding a title, it would be the WWE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They held off on Warrior/Savage until after Warrior dropped the belt, which led to that awesome WM match which is the best example of catharsis that I can think of in pro wrestling, but which didn't help Warrior's run at all. I'm not sure that there were many good options, but Rude just was not at that level in 1990 and that feud had been done already. 

I don't think you can save the title reign of such a limited worker like Warrior, but Savage and Earthquake as opponents instead of Rude and being like, "feud with Demolition, I guess" might have made his run less of a flop. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He must’ve saw that picture with Shawn, Hunter, and Road Dogg looking old as shit.

If that’s the case, then please stop putting the staff on camera. Or better yet, put them on a strict dress code. The reason they look so bad is that they dress like they are out fishing on a boat in the Key’s.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I'm not sure that there were many good options, but Rude just was not at that level in 1990 and that feud had been done already. 

here are the heels who were on the card at Wrestlemania 6

Rick Martel, Andre the Giant, Haku, Earthquake, Mr. Perfect, Bad News Brown, Nikolai Volkoff, Boris Zhukov, The Barbarian, Randy Savage, Sato, Pat Tanaka, Dino Bravo, Ted DiBiase, Akeem, and Rick Rude

Or to sum up how they spent the rest of their 1990s:

Moving up and feuded with Jake to begin 91, Finished in the WWF, Floundered for most of his remaining time in the WWF, Summer feud with Hogan, IC Champion after Warrior vacated the belt, Gone after Summerslam, Turned face, Shitty abandoned Russian gimmick, Inched up the ladder slightly, Feuded with Dusty Rhodes for his summer, Was mostly out of the WWF by the end of the year, Tag team guy, On his way towards the exit, Kinda floundered until he got a feud with Dusty to set up his feud with Virgil, Gone by October, and de-facto Summer program for the Warrior

DiBiase got a match with Warrior in Japan early in the reign, which allegedly went over poorly with Japanese fans.

But with that group of heels, you can figure out how new arrivals, returns, and turns caused some guys to soar up the ranks

By Wrestlemania 7, the heels were: Haku, Barbarian, Dino Bravo, Warlord, Jerry Sags, Brian Knobbs, Rick Martel, The Undertaker, Randy Savage, Demolition Smash, Demolition Crush, Mr. Perfect, Earthquake, Paul Roma, Hercules, Ted DiBiase, The Mountie, and Sgt. Slaughter

So the world wasn't really hungering for Ultimate Warrior vs Warlord matches, or a reprise of Warrior vs Hercules, and it took giving him Savage and Undertaker to give him some compelling programs, and then Jake turned too.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

here are the heels who were on the card at Wrestlemania 6

Rick Martel, Andre the Giant, Haku, Earthquake, Mr. Perfect, Bad News Brown, Nikolai Volkoff, Boris Zhukov, The Barbarian, Randy Savage, Sato, Pat Tanaka, Dino Bravo, Ted DiBiase, Akeem, and Rick Rude

Or to sum up how they spent the rest of their 1990s:

Moving up and feuded with Jake to begin 91, Finished in the WWF, Floundered for most of his remaining time in the WWF, Summer feud with Hogan, IC Champion after Warrior vacated the belt, Gone after Summerslam, Turned face, Shitty abandoned Russian gimmick, Inched up the ladder slightly, Feuded with Dusty Rhodes for his summer, Was mostly out of the WWF by the end of the year, Tag team guy, On his way towards the exit, Kinda floundered until he got a feud with Dusty to set up his feud with Virgil, Gone by October, and de-facto Summer program for the Warrior

DiBiase got a match with Warrior in Japan early in the reign, which allegedly went over poorly with Japanese fans.

But with that group of heels, you can figure out how new arrivals, returns, and turns caused some guys to soar up the ranks

By Wrestlemania 7, the heels were: Haku, Barbarian, Dino Bravo, Warlord, Jerry Sags, Brian Knobbs, Rick Martel, The Undertaker, Randy Savage, Demolition Smash, Demolition Crush, Mr. Perfect, Earthquake, Paul Roma, Hercules, Ted DiBiase, The Mountie, and Sgt. Slaughter

So the world wasn't really hungering for Ultimate Warrior vs Warlord matches, or a reprise of Warrior vs Hercules, and it took giving him Savage and Undertaker to give him some compelling programs, and then Jake turned too.

They wasted Bad News and Savage on those Jake Roberts/Dusty Rhodes feuds, IMO. I get that Earthquake was a monster heel for Hogan to kill off, but maybe try that formula except with Warrior and move Earthquake over as well. They used DiBiase against Warrior post-Hogan, so they probably couldn't go back to him anyway. At this point, he'd already been the guy to lose to the champ right after the new guy wins the gold with Savage two years earlier, so he didn't really have credibility in that role. 

I love Perfect, but he wouldn't have been credible if elevated to a Warrior feud that culminated at a major show. 

It is wild though that Warrior's best feuds came AFTER he lost the gold - that's when he got Savage, 'Taker, and Jake all in short order. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Warrior's Title Run

Anytime I watch Mania VI, I always wonder why they didn't have or at least didn't try to build someone up for Warrior to go against after winning the WWF title. I know Rude was a callback to him beating Warrior for the IC title. However, you cannot expect to elevate a midcard feud from the last year to the main event unless (to the point someone made above) Rude was at that level. And he wasn't. Moreover, Hogan took some time off but the next big PPV was Summerslam and Hogan was on that. If Warrior is going to be the guy, you cannot then have Hogan in a program that is as (if not more) compelling as what Warrior is doing. 

As much as they probably wanted to save the Warrior/Savage program, they should have pivoted to that IMMEDIATELY. This goes especially knowing how limited Warrior was.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Simply put, Warrior had no chance. He was Hot Rod replacing Optimus Prime. Maybe if Hogan disappeared like Backlund did he’d have a chance. But Backlund was no Hogan when he was replaced. So there weren’t any guarantees. I do truly feel he would’ve grown into the role, and accepted as the guy, if Hogan never returned eventually. It needed a lot of time for that to happen.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
  • Like 2
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For what it's worth, I think they did book Warrior/Rude at Summerslam perfectly. It was short, both guys got color, Warrior won definitively. But yeah, not having someone hot to go up against Warrior immediately after he beat Hogan + Hogan coming back and having a program with Quake (who I think was REALLY good throughout the whole feud) made the whole reign dead in the water.

Edited by SirSmellingtonofCascadia
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

They held off on Warrior/Savage until after Warrior dropped the belt, which led to that awesome WM match which is the best example of catharsis that I can think of in pro wrestling, but which didn't help Warrior's run at all. I'm not sure that there were many good options, but Rude just was not at that level in 1990 and that feud had been done already. 

I don't think you can save the title reign of such a limited worker like Warrior, but Savage and Earthquake as opponents instead of Rude and being like, "feud with Demolition, I guess" might have made his run less of a flop. 

I think a big problem with Warrior's run is even after Hogan lost the belt and got taken out by Earthquake, they were still building their shows around Hulk Hogan. Even though Warrior was the champion, Hulk Hogan was still being treated as the face of the company. It was like when John Cena was on top and every segment they are putting over Cena or talking about Cena. They didn't truly strap the rocket to Warrior. After WM 6, they were still undercutting him. Mean Gene and the broadcasters were even saying Earthquake was the reason Hogan lost the title and his attacks weakened Hogan, causing him to lose the title.

Now deep down maybe McMahon didn't trust Warrior or saw something in him that he didn't trust and knew he'd have to go back to Hogan eventually, but I still think WWE, intentionally or not, sabotaged and undercut Warrior's title reign.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

the thing is that WM6 was opening up the IC title in any outcome where there was a pinfall/submission, which meant a heel was going to win the IC title.. so it might be asking a bit much to ask the WWF to simultaneously build up a heel holding the IC title and a heel challenging the Warrior

Perfect lost his undefeated streak at WM6 to Beefcake, which was gonna build to Beefcake winning the IC title at Summerslam if not for the accident.

If they weren't building Beefcake to win the IC title, then he could have turned on Warrior out of of implied anger that Warrior beat his friend Hogan, and then they could have had godawful matches around the horn before a match where Warrior and Brutus put their hair up and Brutus gets a haircut.

Brutus Beefcake: a gimmick where he cuts hair and I don't think they ever did hair vs hair

Out of the guys who were on their way out of the WWF. Bad News was probably seen as unreliable (one could dispute how accurate that was) and Akeem was a comedy gimmick that probably would have been jobbing in 60 seconds to the Warrior

6 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

It is wild though that Warrior's best feuds came AFTER he lost the gold - that's when he got Savage, 'Taker, and Jake all in short order. 

the cliche about some guys "not needing a title" might work for the Ultimate Warrior after a point.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What do you call it when a beloved hero is replaced, with a character you don’t like? “Step-father Syndrome”? I was four years old, and I had that strong feeling of “Who the fuck do you think you are? You aren’t Hulk Hogan”. It also didn’t help that Warrior acted like an unreasonable monster during that build.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

looking at Survivor Series 89, the following heels worked SS89 who didn't work WM6 (or weren't around for it)

Honky Tonk Man, Greg Valentine, Warlord, Zeus, Jacques Rougeau, Raymond Rougeau, and Arn Anderson

Honky and Greg were at WM6 riding in a car with DDP as a driver. Warlord was doing whatever. Zeus was gone, Ray Rougeau retired, Jacques wasn't around for a year, and Arn was back south a few weeks after SS89

Also Boss Man turned face between SS89 and WM6 to take an opponent away from Warrior.

Windham and Blanchard were replaced by Earthquake and Heenan, and one of those two went south and the other... didn't.

So a guy like Windham could have been fed to the Warrior if not for all the downsides that were about to end his 2nd WWF stint.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

What do you call it when a beloved hero is replaced, with a character you don’t like? “Step-father Syndrome”? I was four years old, and I had that strong feeling of “Who the fuck do you think you are? You aren’t Hulk Hogan”. It also didn’t help that Warrior acted like an unreasonable monster during that build.

He did tell Hulk Hogan to crash a plane full of people into parts unknown. 

  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, TheVileOne said:

He did tell Hulk Hogan to crash a plane full of people into parts unknown. 

That’s another thing. He basically threatened to kill Hogan’s fans at the time. You really think a four year old Hulkamaniac is going to be one of the little Warriors after the things he said? Fuck that guy.

  • Haha 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish the would have waited a PPV or 2 for Rude vs Warrior because it would've been better to have him again an opponent he never faced on PPV.  They originally planned for a Hogan vs Warrior rematch I hear but I also hear they planned on Tugboat vs Hogan. Tugboat seemed like he was in that early Hill Billy Jim early JYD position where they are over as Hulks top Allies respectively. 

I don't see them turning Warrior heel but didn't they consider turning him before he held Vince up as Summerslam?

I think Vince hitched himself to Warrior as the top guy getting over no matter what and thought he'd take off like Hulk did in '84 as soon as he Won the belt. Alot of Warriors opponents was guys he defeated as IC Champ. Hogan had a ton of fresh opponents in the first 2 3 years on top. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Hogan Vs. Warrior was the key mistake in Warrior’s failure to launch. Not only did it force fans to pick a side, but it was also not that big of a draw. Hogan should’ve lost the belt to Savage prior to WM 6, then you start the Warrior run there with Savage winning it at Mania. Later you decide if you want to do “The Ultimate Challenge” at the next Mania.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

considering Rude was out of the WWF after that Summerslam match (which I think was a pay dispute)... i'm not sure if they could have really waited without Rude departing.

Also, Rude and Bad News both left over Summerslam checks? makes one wonder what the expectations were or how much the checks dropped.

Meanwhile the only real name guy in the UWF in late 1990 who probably could have made some money in the WWF around that time was Nikita Koloff. The rest were under not proven, not proven yet, or guys who were in the WWF 4 years earlier.

Nikita Koloff being the guy to show up and squash Nikolai Volkoff on his way to a turbo-push probably would have been better than some of how he spent 1991/1992. Although it might have come off to diehard WWF fans like how they thought the Legion of Doom were Demolition knockoffs.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • RIPPA locked, unpinned and unfeatured this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...