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January 2022 Discussion of Wrestling


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24 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Stephen New is about as big of a money mark that has ever existed in wrestling. I can guarantee this guy is bank rolling the entire lawsuit. MLW won't have to pay a cent. Makes sense, dude's logo was all over the ring at the last few MLW shows. I will never respect the POS. You can't play the giant fan of wrestling card when you sue one of the boys. Glad he & Cornette got their ass beat in court.

i have no idea who Stephen New is, but i am interested in reading more of this story.

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Stephen New is a lawyer in West Virginia who is a giant wrestling fan turned money mark. He funds promotions and specific indy wrestlers and he's a hardcore Cornette guy. To the point he sued GCW wrestler G-Raver on the behalf of Cornette. G-Raver was selling a clown shirt using the a Cornette face as a way to pay Cornette back for all the vile shit he spewed about G-Raver on his podcasts. Including but not limited to how he wished G-Raver died from a horrific cut in a deathmatch that legitimately almost killed G-Raver. Stephen New took the case and it went to trial. G-Raver's lawyer was Pittsburgh indy wrestler David Lawless. He does a corrupt lawyer gimmick but he's also a shoot lawyer. Cornette lost the defamation suit and G-Raver was allowed to continue selling these shirts:

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Edited by NoFistsJustFlips
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I would imagine if you're suing for defamation, you cannot have 2 and half hours of evidence every other week of you also defaming the defendant. That's on the same level of robbing someone and then uploading the video of you with the stolen merch to Facebook or Youtube.

Also, he should have hired Clarence Mason. 

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A random comment on the AEW Discord "AEW's Women's division won't get over until they sign a woman who is an MJF-level promo" got me wondering, has there ever been a female WRESTLER (not manager) who was an MJF level promo? Who are the best talkers in (English speaking) Women's Wrestling history?

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16 minutes ago, AxB said:

A random comment on the AEW Discord "AEW's Women's division won't get over until they sign a woman who is an MJF-level promo" got me wondering, has there ever been a female WRESTLER (not manager) who was an MJF level promo? Who are the best talkers in (English speaking) Women's Wrestling history?

Some of her stuff is still on Youtube, but I thought Daizee Haze was pretty good. 

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25 minutes ago, AxB said:

A random comment on the AEW Discord "AEW's Women's division won't get over until they sign a woman who is an MJF-level promo" got me wondering, has there ever been a female WRESTLER (not manager) who was an MJF level promo? Who are the best talkers in (English speaking) Women's Wrestling history?

I wanted to say Sunny, but you took that out of the equation. I honestly don’t know really. Even Lana Star was pretty average for playing that archetype.

Charlotte Flair is trying to be her dad, but is just a little too shooty guilt trippy. 

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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4 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

I wanted to say Sunny, but you took that out of the equation. I honestly don’t know really. Even Lana Star was pretty average for playing that archetype.

Sunny seemed very comfortable from the start going back to Smoky Mountain with zero experience. When they switched her to introducing the lucha matches on Raw when they had nothing for her to do, she was great at that. It was a catch 22 with her. You make her a manager, and she's going to be the center of attention. You cannot put her in the ring because she is not trained to wrestle. And hell even if she could, it would probably lower her overall value because she's a natural heel. No one is going to boo her.

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If they did train her to be a wrestler, she would’ve been the Flair of women’s wrestling. No doubt about it. There just isn’t a women’s wrestler who comes close to that natural charisma since. 

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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16 hours ago, Peck said:

The court proceedings will be broadcast on Youtube.

No, Fite.

No, Vice.

No, beIN. 

No, DAZN.

No, Fubo. 

No Tubi?  Disappointing. 

Kinda curious to see what Meltzer has to say about the lawsuit  - F4's Youtube channel and this board are basically my sole outlets for wrasslin' news and talk.  On the one hand, I can believe Vince nudged Fox execs into killing MLW's streaming deal.  On the other hand, why would he bother?  MLW isn't any more real competition to WWE than Impact, ROH, or GCW and isn't likely to grow to the level of AEW or 2000's RoH.  Aside from hubris or a personal grudge, I'm struggling to come up with a reason Vince would risk a lawsuit or bad pr.  Granted, people do stupid things for stupid reasons every day of the year.  Even if Vince did want to cancel MLW, is keeping him happy worth that much to Fox that they'd wade into a potential antitrust complaint for him?  I'm not saying WWE isn't worth that much to Fox, but I'd have to know more before I have an opinion.

It probably won't matter.  If Vince did kill the deal, there probably isn't much in the way of actual proof laying around and I suspect the case will be hard to make in court.  That's assuming WWE's attorneys don't simply bury MLW's lawyers in motions and postponements until Bauer's money mark runs dry  I'm guessing that, if it looks like it will eventually go to trial, Fox will lean on WWE to settle it quickly and quietly. They don't really have anything to gain here even if WWE wins in court.

Edited by Tarheel Moneghetti
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SRS is reporting that Corey Graves has been cleared for in-ring action after 7 years away.  

So, who gets to be the first one to beat the fuck out of him?   

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Since John Cena is doing press for the debut of Peacemaker - we are gonna get random stories from him commenting on everything

Today he was on Rich Eisen's show talking about all the recent cuts

Quote

In a Tuesday appearance on The Rich Eisen Show, WWE icon and pop culture star John Cena said he felt the massive cuts the company made in 2021 were due to defensive hiring practices due to competition and a growing demand for content.

"This is just me posing a different perspective. I think a lot of it might have been a little slightly defensive hiring because there was, and still is, a giant boom right now in sports entertainment. People are absorbing this content and they are re-engaging. 

"People are making a name for themselves outside of WWE. It’s no longer a one-stop shop, so I think with this flux of passionate people who love sports entertainment, people do get a name for themselves outside of WWE and if WWE feels maybe that they can be a fit in that world, they’re gonna try to give that person a shot," he explained.

Cena talked about the Performance Center and the continued hiring of new talent, putting them at max capacity and resulting in performers sitting on the sidelines which is "the real frustrating thing, both to the WWE and from a stance of a performer." 

He felt the cuts had little to do with profit/loss margins and more with the company strategy at the time.

"...There is only so many spots, there is only so much programming and I understand from the business standpoint, the amount of releases that have had to happen. If the company justifies that, ‘Hey, this is the move we’re making. We wanna carry less talent,’ it has very little to do with profit/loss margin. If the company strategy is to run on a lean roster, it doesn’t matter, you run on a lean roster," he said.

Cena detailed how when he was initially brought up, there were releases twice a year due to the enormous amount of talent WWE had absorbed from WCW, ECW and developmental. 

He said that the releases "created stakes for developmental talent and it created stakes for talent to try to make a name for themselves because we just knew that on a calendar year, shortly after WrestleMania and either before or after the holidays, there would be cuts."

Ultimately, Cena feels bad for those who were cut, but that it's part of the business.

"WWE went through such a long period of not releasing anybody and now, they’re kind of getting back into that rhythm again. That it is a very abrupt shift to somebody who’s not familiar with that. My heart goes out to everybody who has to get that sad news because that’s a tough conversation to have," he said.

 

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45 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

If they did train her to be a wrestler, she would’ve been the Flair of women’s wrestling. No doubt about it. There just isn’t a women’s wrestler who comes close to that natural charisma since. 

If we're talking about people that actually could work, Madusa was probably the closest if you look her overall presentation in AJW (IIRC before she joined Bull and Aja's stable and wrestled in like a croptop, Zubaz, and ugly looking kickpads). She had the cool looking entrance gear and all that and had SOME charisma. When she came back to states, she was great in her role as the femme fatale for the Dangerous Alliance. Problem there was I'm assuming the deal with the original JWP fell apart so she couldn't wrestle anyone half decent. The girls they brought to wrestle on one of the Clashes around that time weren't particularly good. So she got stuck in that role. When she got to WWF, she wasn't capable of carrying an entire division. She was decent, but she wasn't good enough to carry anyone. It also doesn't help they gave her the blandest presentation ever with the stupidest ring name possible (a precursor to the terrible names in present times). She was out there working with the rest of Moolah's litter that was still around and the women like Leilani Kai and Ripper who were great at one point but then well past their prime. If you go by her ECW run, Luna needed the type of smoke and mirrors with weapons and blood you weren't going to see in WWF in 1993/1994. When they finally brought in people like Aja Kong, Kyoko, Chaparita Asari, the division was already FUBAR. 

What these promotions are doing now, WWF (and/or WCW for that matter) could have done 25+ years ago. They were just too lazy to scout talent or try to build talent. They were waiting for someone to pop up who could be THAT star. So what happens? They do get a Madusa, but they didn't have anyone to pair her with. So it was just a bunch of nothing and a giant missed opportunity.

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19 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

SRS is reporting that Corey Graves has been cleared for in-ring action after 7 years away.  

So, who gets to be the first one to beat the fuck out of him?   

I think it is obvious who it should be.  Byron Saxton.    Frankly he should beat up Graves like it was a Memphis TV taping from 1985

 

Edited by hammerva
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22 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

SRS is reporting that Corey Graves has been cleared for in-ring action after 7 years away.  

So, who gets to be the first one to beat the fuck out of him?   

Would Pat McAfee suffice? I mean they could have a confrontation at the Rumble announce desk when one or both of them step out of line with their commentary? It would be at least feasible since they are both announcers and douches!

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I was trying to think of who the best female talker in TNA/Impact was, and it just reminded me of how much the Knockouts division was hamstrung, for YEARS, by shitty Russo (or Russo-esque) booking. So I'll say Rosemary was their best talker, because she at least has good, unique delivery... I can remember plenty of Beautiful People promos, but I can't remember a single word they ever said in them. 

A lot of the Knockouts division promos fall into that "gets the job done in terms of building the match, but not in any way memorable, and certainly not timeless".

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1 hour ago, AxB said:

A random comment on the AEW Discord "AEW's Women's division won't get over until they sign a woman who is an MJF-level promo" got me wondering, has there ever been a female WRESTLER (not manager) who was an MJF level promo? Who are the best talkers in (English speaking) Women's Wrestling history?

The current champion does very good promos and has an over catchphrase, isn't that good enough?

Signed, Dr. Britt Baker...

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17 minutes ago, AxB said:

I was trying to think of who the best female talker in TNA/Impact was, and it just reminded me of how much the Knockouts division was hamstrung, for YEARS, by shitty Russo (or Russo-esque) booking. So I'll say Rosemary was their best talker, because she at least has good, unique delivery... I can remember plenty of Beautiful People promos, but I can't remember a single word they ever said in them. 

A lot of the Knockouts division promos fall into that "gets the job done in terms of building the match, but not in any way memorable, and certainly not timeless".

Between that and LayCool, I didn't much care for the Mean Girls routine. For me, it doesn't really work for pro wrestling. In small doses and in ECW where that's du jour, maybe. 

27 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

In a small field, I'd think Sherri is a clear all-time #1 (English speaking) promo. Maybe Moolah or Luna #2? 

Sherri is an interesting case because I think she's a person who was in the right spot at the right time. When she was Queen Sherri, she was money because it was a buddy routine. When she was doing the 90 second bits with Savage, it always worked because the chemistry was there and Savage was over the top enough to make Sherri seem reasonably sane. It was excellent. Everything else...well. I mean after the Savage thing was done, they stuck her with DiBiase even though he's exactly the person who doesn't need a mouthpiece. That didn't work. Same with Michaels and Flair. With the former, you don't remember what she said as much as her being asshole naked almost. She kinda elevated Harlem Heat, but by the time Harlem Heat really got going, that was when she was showing up to TV tapings higher than the price of a mink coat on Rodeo Drive. If you notice, the last several months of being with Harlem Heat, they barely let her do anything because I doubt she was capable of doing anything. She was essentially in no shape to perform. 

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4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Yeah, MLW has a point in that WWE probably did ask Fox, who owns Tubi, to kindly do them a solid and remove MLW from their platform.  Does it rise to the level of something that can get its day in court?  And, if so, can MLW fight that court battle?  This is America.  It's not about who's right.  It's about who has the stomach and the wallet to fight it out.

Conspiracy theroy: Andrew Yang is funding this. 

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6 minutes ago, nofuture said:
 

I believe the UFC class action lawsuit is the same way in terms of the representation.

That said, I remember when that was first announced in December 2014 and how that was a big story for MMA at the time.

It's 2022 and they still haven't had a trial yet. The discovery phase took about 2 years and that was BEFORE covid. The class certification took several months and a decision was rendered just some months ago.

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39 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

If you notice, the last several months of being with Harlem Heat, they barely let her do anything because I doubt she was capable of doing anything. She was essentially in no shape to perform. 

I think I’m either there, or near there. She just had the spot with Debra that she fucked up twice on. 

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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Just now, LoneWolf&Subs said:

She’s good… But I don’t know? MJF is on another level of deep Kayfabe. 

Honestly the thing I like about MJF is that he fully leans into being a heel rather than being a cool heel, but his promos can drag, can be corny, and edgelordy. The Piper comparison is apt for the good and bad reasons. And being an MJF-level promo hasn't really made him a bigger/breakout star than the other Pillars.

Is Sting a good promo?

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