January 2022 Discussion of Wrestling

[Technico Support]

3 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I'm not sure that the example strategy you mention using T-Mobile as an example would even work for Peacock. Mobile providers can compete with one another across the country. Cable providers have regional monopolies (or near-monopolies). I suppose they might think that offering Peacock could get people to pick up Comcast rather than cord-cutting, but that seems dubious because I'd rather just buy Peacock as part of the handful of streaming services that I subscribe to...and that's even though I have to go through them for internet service (fiber's not quite in my neighborhood). 

Good point.  I'm lucky enough that I live in an area with two ISP options (Comcast & Verizon) but I know it's not that way in a ton of places.

[JohnnyJ]

3 hours ago, Technico Support said:

At first I wondered if it was about luring people to Comcast via Peacock like how offering free Netflix might push you over the top if you're on the fence about joining T-Mobile, for example.  But nobody's going to change their ISP just to get a largely unknown streaming service for free.  It's likely more about artificially inflating the user base for stockholders.  Pure WWE move, there.  Profits are up?  Talk about how much money you're making.  Profits are down?  Talk about how huge the subscriber base is and hope they don't ask how many are actually paying or how many got 3 months for $1.

I think a large part of it is forecasting where all of this is heading. Cable is a dinosaur. There's barely any original programming. It's a wasteland of nothing. That's why AEW bringing in a demo that barely watches tv anymore is such a big deal. The future is streaming and there's a rush to get as many subscribers as possible. They need to make Peacock a part of peoples everyday lives. The profits will come later. Of course, the question is how long can you take on billion dollar losses until you're profitable. 

 

[cwoy2j]

2 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This is how WWE structure deals. They can fire you at anytime. When you're fired you are blocked from doing anything in the pro wrestling / combat sport world for 90 days. You continue to be paid for 90 days and are legally still under your original agreement. But in essence that original deal is terminated the second they release you. You have to fulfill the 90 day no compete (unless a legal agreement is worked out with WWE to avoid it), but they can't just go and say we messed up we don't want to terminate you. It's too late. They would need to renegotiate a new agreement with you.

The 90 day no compete is a way to stop you from making a deal and singing somewhere hot off being a news story. Being on Raw Monday, getting fired Tuesday, being on Dynamite Wednesday. It's shitty. But until it's challenged legally, it's just part of the business. No other company in the wrestling space can offer you a deal, nor negotiate one, until that 90 days is over.

I thought that part of the 90 days was that the released person couldn't appear on tv. They could go do Indy shots or autograph signings, just not for any company with tv. At least I remembered that being a thing at one point. Is that still the case?

[AxB]

Do I have to repeat that the show that features Biff 'Oney Lorcan' Busick's return to indie wrestling is called "Day 91"?

[Ziggy]

10 hours ago, Technico Support said:

On one hand, I get what @(BP) is saying regarding it's more about how Jeff scared a lot of good people.  On the other hand, anything labor can do to take some power back, especially in one-sided working relationships, is fine by me.  WWE can hang on to people who don't want to be there but also reserves the right to fire anyone, any time.  Seeing someone screw them for once is nice.

WWE will hold on to you just for the fact of them knowing your miserable. Is it professional to work your way out of your contract? No.  But going to the ring uninspired every night has to be unsafe for you and your opponent, especially at 44. Jeff was still one of the most over guys without them even putting in any conscious effort is a credit to him. It reminds me of Sid when ever he came back, he was always more over than the company wanted him to be.  

[username]

8 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

All that said, woof. The amount of corporate white washing here saying Jeff was the underhanded dirty one is gross. There's some hard core boot licking corporate sympathizers around these parts. 

 

I mean... if Jeff Hardy publicly faked a relapse to get out of his job or anything he's a straight up piece of shit, the fact that he would have done it to other shitty people wouldn't really change that fact. Dude's got family, friends, a ton of fans and if he went the "I'm gonna fake all of their greatest fears about me for personal gain" route then he is a legit awful human being. Vince is also a legit awful human being, some stories just don't have good guys in them.

 

That said I don't think Jeff played 4d chess or anything and had a legit "slip" of some sort, be it drugs or alcohol or whatever. I just ultimately hope he is well.

[matt925]

8 hours ago, Technico Support said:

And the 90 day wouldn't hold up in damn near any court, but fighting it would probably take longer than 90 days and cost a ton of money, so it's pointless.

I remember Lesnar sued them over it and eventually won, but I believe the issue there is that they wanted to hold him to a non compete for the entire length of the contact they had originally signed before he "retired to pursue football" and not only wanted to keep him from wrestling, but also from MMA.  Come to think of it, they may have wanted to keep him from wrestling or fighting anywhere ever again if he ever "unretired."  Which is so scummy.

They were trying to prevent him from wrestling in Japan, and I guess not paying him, because the judge was like, how the hell can you prevent someone from earning their trained living anywhere in the world?

[Horatio]

15 minutes ago, username said:

 

I mean... if Jeff Hardy publicly faked a relapse to get out of his job or anything he's a straight up piece of shit, the fact that he would have done it to other shitty people wouldn't really change that fact. Dude's got family, friends, a ton of fans and if he went the "I'm gonna fake all of their greatest fears about me for personal gain" route then he is a legit awful human being. Vince is also a legit awful human being, some stories just don't have good guys in them.

I don't see how faking a relapse is a POS thing to do. Especially if they were gonna make him The Shaman. Drugs are huge right now and going legal in the U.S. and they were gonna make HIS ass their Holy Man? Here? Now? He just recently kicked alcohol for crying out loud. IF he faked it (and I'm on psych meds myself, so don't think I'm trying to convince anyone of anything; it's a big if), he gave them a taste of their own medicine on multiple levels. Don't call an ex-methhead your shaman unless you're gonna hook him up with some dope. Simple as that.

That said, he could have just had a panic attack, he could have had a flashback. Did he get sent to mental health? Is it even the company's business what he and a doctor might discuss? 

Matt says he's fine. Why doubt him? Why worry? If he wanted his job, he would have went to rehab. It's not work. It's not forever. I heard he wanted to go on tour.

[TheVileOne]

9 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This Jeff Hardy stuff is just hand wringing for the sake of hand wringing. It's very unlikely Jeff faked anything. The situation how I understand it is Jeff had been drinking. He started feeling shitty mid match and bounced. Because of his history WWE drug tested him (thinking it was recreational drugs), They released him regardless of the results because working while buzzed or drunk is not okay anymore. Jeff was offended by the optics of taking a drug test he knows he didn't fail, and still being released. It's wayyyyyyy less nefarious than people are speculating on. Jeff didn't trick anyone.

All that said, woof. The amount of corporate white washing here saying Jeff was the underhanded dirty one is gross. There's some hard core boot licking corporate sympathizers around these parts. WWE (the company as a whole not specifically "evil Vince") use these people up and spit them out. They don't treat them like human beings. They treat them like cattle. Nameless faceless warm bodies to hit stock price numbers and nothing more. Jeff would certainly not be the bad guy for tricking the corporate entity making him work 50 times a year when he agreed to a limited schedule.

I could rant for hours on that so I will finish with this... anyone siding with the corporate entity over real live human beings is a bad person.

Going into a match drunk and suddenly deciding to bounce is messed up and highly unprofessional if that was the case. But then again I have no idea if it was.

Faking a drug relapse to get fired is asinine and completely idiotic. Dude's not Andy Kaufman. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by TheVileOne

[TheVileOne]

15 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

So I’m just going to say it… He straight up faked it at the house show to force his firing. The WWE realized it, and are trying to convince him to change his mind now. 

I’m stunned that it worked so well. 

Didn’t this happen already with another wrestler in another company in some form in the past?

If he didn't want to stay in WWE he could've just not signed a new contract in 2020.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

8 hours ago, cwoy2j said:

I thought that part of the 90 days was that the released person couldn't appear on tv. They could go do Indy shots or autograph signings, just not for any company with tv. At least I remembered that being a thing at one point. Is that still the case?

As far as I understand they can't do indys unless they get an agreement from WWE allowing it. Now WWE has allowed this in the past a bunch with the agreement being no TV and no indy's that release DVDs nationally (like through Smart Mark or Highspots, as well as events on Fite and the like. But as a rule, no working for anyone else until the 90 days is up.

 

2 hours ago, username said:

I mean... if Jeff Hardy publicly faked a relapse to get out of his job or anything he's a straight up piece of shit, the fact that he would have done it to other shitty people wouldn't really change that fact. Dude's got family, friends, a ton of fans and if he went the "I'm gonna fake all of their greatest fears about me for personal gain" route then he is a legit awful human being. Vince is also a legit awful human being, some stories just don't have good guys in them.

That's a fair opinion to have. I judge it from a different perspective, especially when his initial contract should have already been done. But WWE adds time on now while you're out injured. That ACL tear and recovery added a bunch of time. If he didn't want to be there, and his initial date should have already come and gone, faking it is less egregious to me. But again I think it's pretty obvious he didn't fake anything.

 

1 hour ago, TheVileOne said:

Going into a match drunk and suddenly deciding to bounce is messed up and highly unprofessional if that was the case. But then again I have no idea if it was.

Agreed. Don't really have an excuse for him performing intoxicated. That was unprofessional.
 

[ReiseReise]

12 hours ago, JohnnyJ said:

My recollection is prior to rejoining WWE, Jeff Hardy didn't want to take on a full time schedule again. Yet at 44, he ended up wrestling 50 matches last year. That's a lot for someone over 25 years in. I'm sure in AEW he sees a place where he can work a few times a year and take some independent bookings. 

Now that that Hardys and Briscoes are floating around, I would love to see a tag team tournament leading to a ppv.   

I 'm amazed that 50 matches a year is considered full-time schedule nowadays. 

Not taking any sides, just saying less than one match a week seems pretty part time to me. 

[DangerMark]

He already has plenty of miles on the clock though, many of them going downward. 

[LoneWolf&Subs]

Watching Rumble 1990 right now. I didn’t realize until re-watch that entrants are mostly coming in face, heel, face, heel… Like it’s War Games. It definitely works when some of the first ten entrants are Dusty, Andre, Piper, Jake, and Savage.

I guess it goes to shit once all the territory stars are gone, and you have to rely on the bad acts, as well as the un-over stars of the later 90’s, and beyond into the 00’s.

Edited January 29, 2022 by LoneWolf&Subs

[zendragon]

22 hours ago, Horatio said:

 

It's all stupid and I still don't see what either Hardy has to offer on-screen for AEW. Granted, their ring work is probably up to snuff, but they seem like relics of wrestling nerd-dom to me.

 

I think AEW would welcome a Hardy Boyz reunion. Billy Gunn, Jericho, Matt Hardy, Christian, JR, Big Show, Mark Henry, Tazz, Dustin plus Tony S and Sting from WCW. Lot of Ex Attitude Era guys in the company either Tony K likes his late 90s early 2000 nostalgia or Turner likes having those guys on the show.

[The Natural]

Well, you used to shit in peoples bags.

[The Natural]

 

[GodzillaPerez]

8 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Well, you used to shit in peoples bags.

http://www.wrestleview.com/news2005/1118954026.shtml

No he didn't but he still was not a good person.

[cwoy2j]

9 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

As far as I understand they can't do indys unless they get an agreement from WWE allowing it. Now WWE has allowed this in the past a bunch with the agreement being no TV and no indy's that release DVDs nationally (like through Smart Mark or Highspots, as well as events on Fite and the like. But as a rule, no working for anyone else until the 90 days is up.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Has that changed over the years? I swear I remember hearing someone like Raven say that he was able to do Indies as long as nothing was televised or no dvds were sold but don't remember him mentioning that he had to clear anything with the WWF/E. They can do autograph signings and appearances though if I understand correctly. Jeff is doing meet and greets already. Maybe that falls outside of WWE's sphere because he's also doing a concert?

https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/news-wwe-news-jeff-hardy-announces-tour-following-release

[Matt D]

Traditionally Vince has always been big about letting people fulfill their obligations that they've already agreed to before coming in when signed. There was a period in the mid-90s when business was so down that he let a lot of the undercard work indies too. Those are the big things that come to mind.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

Orton sounds like he’s talking about Braun Strowman in that clip. 

[Coletti]

I hope Randy treated the Bollywood Boys to some damn fine meals...

[Cobra Commander]

2 hours ago, Matt D said:

Traditionally Vince has always been big about letting people fulfill their obligations that they've already agreed to before coming in when signed. There was a period in the mid-90s when business was so down that he let a lot of the undercard work indies too. Those are the big things that come to mind.

there was a period of time when Brian Lee was about to come into the WWF around the Underfaker time where Lee asked Vince about coming in immediately despite still working for Smoky (which, of course, was run by WWF on-screen personality Jim Cornette).. which led to Vince relaying the message to Jim under the premise of "if he'd do that to you, he'd do that to me"

Of course that wasn't always the case, especially in the 80s

[NoFistsJustFlips]

3 hours ago, cwoy2j said:

Jeff is doing meet and greets already. Maybe that falls outside of WWE's sphere because he's also doing a concert?

Anything that isn't a combat sport or appearing on a wrestling promotion's event would be allowed. Like not that he'd want to but he's free to drive for Uber or get a job at the post office right away or whatever lol. Concerts & signings are allowed (as long as it isn't a signing at a wrestling show). Just no wrestling stuff. I say combat sports because I would assume WWE would view someone showing up to hype a fight in UFC as breaking the no compete as well.

I do think the language changed in the mid to late 00s. When Raven was fired in 2003 he opted out of the no compete to show up in early TNA and start a hot angle right away. He said no I don't want 90 extra days of pay, I want my freedom. I'm fairly sure you can't opt out of the non compete anymore. Because people like Matt Hardy were chomping at the bit to get in AEW. He certainly would have opted out of 90 days of pay to get his freedom if he was able to. So they have seemingly done away with the voluntary opt out.

[Cobra Commander]

looking around YouTube, sorted by "upload date" and.. Brazo de Plata Jr is predicting the end of Covid in 2025. Congrats everybody.

Luchador and Astrologist has some potential for a gimmick. Especially if there's a different luchador who is working a Walter Mercado gimmick to do an astrologer vs astrologer feud.