Peck Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 I mean, Ciampa's grey beard has suddenly disappeared and turned brown... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said: here are the heels who were on the card at Wrestlemania 6 Rick Martel, Andre the Giant, Haku, Earthquake, Mr. Perfect, Bad News Brown, Nikolai Volkoff, Boris Zhukov, The Barbarian, Randy Savage, Sato, Pat Tanaka, Dino Bravo, Ted DiBiase, Akeem, and Rick Rude Or to sum up how they spent the rest of their 1990s: Moving up and feuded with Jake to begin 91, Finished in the WWF, Floundered for most of his remaining time in the WWF, Summer feud with Hogan, IC Champion after Warrior vacated the belt, Gone after Summerslam, Turned face, Shitty abandoned Russian gimmick, Inched up the ladder slightly, Feuded with Dusty Rhodes for his summer, Was mostly out of the WWF by the end of the year, Tag team guy, On his way towards the exit, Kinda floundered until he got a feud with Dusty to set up his feud with Virgil, Gone by October, and de-facto Summer program for the Warrior DiBiase got a match with Warrior in Japan early in the reign, which allegedly went over poorly with Japanese fans. But with that group of heels, you can figure out how new arrivals, returns, and turns caused some guys to soar up the ranks By Wrestlemania 7, the heels were: Haku, Barbarian, Dino Bravo, Warlord, Jerry Sags, Brian Knobbs, Rick Martel, The Undertaker, Randy Savage, Demolition Smash, Demolition Crush, Mr. Perfect, Earthquake, Paul Roma, Hercules, Ted DiBiase, The Mountie, and Sgt. Slaughter So the world wasn't really hungering for Ultimate Warrior vs Warlord matches, or a reprise of Warrior vs Hercules, and it took giving him Savage and Undertaker to give him some compelling programs, and then Jake turned too. They wasted Bad News and Savage on those Jake Roberts/Dusty Rhodes feuds, IMO. I get that Earthquake was a monster heel for Hogan to kill off, but maybe try that formula except with Warrior and move Earthquake over as well. They used DiBiase against Warrior post-Hogan, so they probably couldn't go back to him anyway. At this point, he'd already been the guy to lose to the champ right after the new guy wins the gold with Savage two years earlier, so he didn't really have credibility in that role. I love Perfect, but he wouldn't have been credible if elevated to a Warrior feud that culminated at a major show. It is wild though that Warrior's best feuds came AFTER he lost the gold - that's when he got Savage, 'Taker, and Jake all in short order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 Re: Warrior's Title Run Anytime I watch Mania VI, I always wonder why they didn't have or at least didn't try to build someone up for Warrior to go against after winning the WWF title. I know Rude was a callback to him beating Warrior for the IC title. However, you cannot expect to elevate a midcard feud from the last year to the main event unless (to the point someone made above) Rude was at that level. And he wasn't. Moreover, Hogan took some time off but the next big PPV was Summerslam and Hogan was on that. If Warrior is going to be the guy, you cannot then have Hogan in a program that is as (if not more) compelling as what Warrior is doing. As much as they probably wanted to save the Warrior/Savage program, they should have pivoted to that IMMEDIATELY. This goes especially knowing how limited Warrior was. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) Simply put, Warrior had no chance. He was Hot Rod replacing Optimus Prime. Maybe if Hogan disappeared like Backlund did he’d have a chance. But Backlund was no Hogan when he was replaced. So there weren’t any guarantees. I do truly feel he would’ve grown into the role, and accepted as the guy, if Hogan never returned eventually. It needed a lot of time for that to happen. Edited January 20, 2022 by LoneWolf&Subs 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) For what it's worth, I think they did book Warrior/Rude at Summerslam perfectly. It was short, both guys got color, Warrior won definitively. But yeah, not having someone hot to go up against Warrior immediately after he beat Hogan + Hogan coming back and having a program with Quake (who I think was REALLY good throughout the whole feud) made the whole reign dead in the water. Edited January 20, 2022 by SirSmellingtonofCascadia 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said: They held off on Warrior/Savage until after Warrior dropped the belt, which led to that awesome WM match which is the best example of catharsis that I can think of in pro wrestling, but which didn't help Warrior's run at all. I'm not sure that there were many good options, but Rude just was not at that level in 1990 and that feud had been done already. I don't think you can save the title reign of such a limited worker like Warrior, but Savage and Earthquake as opponents instead of Rude and being like, "feud with Demolition, I guess" might have made his run less of a flop. I think a big problem with Warrior's run is even after Hogan lost the belt and got taken out by Earthquake, they were still building their shows around Hulk Hogan. Even though Warrior was the champion, Hulk Hogan was still being treated as the face of the company. It was like when John Cena was on top and every segment they are putting over Cena or talking about Cena. They didn't truly strap the rocket to Warrior. After WM 6, they were still undercutting him. Mean Gene and the broadcasters were even saying Earthquake was the reason Hogan lost the title and his attacks weakened Hogan, causing him to lose the title. Now deep down maybe McMahon didn't trust Warrior or saw something in him that he didn't trust and knew he'd have to go back to Hogan eventually, but I still think WWE, intentionally or not, sabotaged and undercut Warrior's title reign. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 the thing is that WM6 was opening up the IC title in any outcome where there was a pinfall/submission, which meant a heel was going to win the IC title.. so it might be asking a bit much to ask the WWF to simultaneously build up a heel holding the IC title and a heel challenging the Warrior Perfect lost his undefeated streak at WM6 to Beefcake, which was gonna build to Beefcake winning the IC title at Summerslam if not for the accident. If they weren't building Beefcake to win the IC title, then he could have turned on Warrior out of of implied anger that Warrior beat his friend Hogan, and then they could have had godawful matches around the horn before a match where Warrior and Brutus put their hair up and Brutus gets a haircut. Brutus Beefcake: a gimmick where he cuts hair and I don't think they ever did hair vs hair Out of the guys who were on their way out of the WWF. Bad News was probably seen as unreliable (one could dispute how accurate that was) and Akeem was a comedy gimmick that probably would have been jobbing in 60 seconds to the Warrior 6 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said: It is wild though that Warrior's best feuds came AFTER he lost the gold - that's when he got Savage, 'Taker, and Jake all in short order. the cliche about some guys "not needing a title" might work for the Ultimate Warrior after a point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 They did title vs. hair with Beefcake versus Honky, I think. That's as close as we got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) What do you call it when a beloved hero is replaced, with a character you don’t like? “Step-father Syndrome”? I was four years old, and I had that strong feeling of “Who the fuck do you think you are? You aren’t Hulk Hogan”. It also didn’t help that Warrior acted like an unreasonable monster during that build. Edited January 20, 2022 by LoneWolf&Subs 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 looking at Survivor Series 89, the following heels worked SS89 who didn't work WM6 (or weren't around for it) Honky Tonk Man, Greg Valentine, Warlord, Zeus, Jacques Rougeau, Raymond Rougeau, and Arn Anderson Honky and Greg were at WM6 riding in a car with DDP as a driver. Warlord was doing whatever. Zeus was gone, Ray Rougeau retired, Jacques wasn't around for a year, and Arn was back south a few weeks after SS89 Also Boss Man turned face between SS89 and WM6 to take an opponent away from Warrior. Windham and Blanchard were replaced by Earthquake and Heenan, and one of those two went south and the other... didn't. So a guy like Windham could have been fed to the Warrior if not for all the downsides that were about to end his 2nd WWF stint. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said: What do you call it when a beloved hero is replaced, with a character you don’t like? “Step-father Syndrome”? I was four years old, and I had that strong feeling of “Who the fuck do you think you are? You aren’t Hulk Hogan”. It also didn’t help that Warrior acted like an unreasonable monster during that build. He did tell Hulk Hogan to crash a plane full of people into parts unknown. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 minute ago, TheVileOne said: He did tell Hulk Hogan to crash a plane full of people into parts unknown. That’s another thing. He basically threatened to kill Hogan’s fans at the time. You really think a four year old Hulkamaniac is going to be one of the little Warriors after the things he said? Fuck that guy. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 I wish the would have waited a PPV or 2 for Rude vs Warrior because it would've been better to have him again an opponent he never faced on PPV. They originally planned for a Hogan vs Warrior rematch I hear but I also hear they planned on Tugboat vs Hogan. Tugboat seemed like he was in that early Hill Billy Jim early JYD position where they are over as Hulks top Allies respectively. I don't see them turning Warrior heel but didn't they consider turning him before he held Vince up as Summerslam? I think Vince hitched himself to Warrior as the top guy getting over no matter what and thought he'd take off like Hulk did in '84 as soon as he Won the belt. Alot of Warriors opponents was guys he defeated as IC Champ. Hogan had a ton of fresh opponents in the first 2 3 years on top. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) I think Hogan Vs. Warrior was the key mistake in Warrior’s failure to launch. Not only did it force fans to pick a side, but it was also not that big of a draw. Hogan should’ve lost the belt to Savage prior to WM 6, then you start the Warrior run there with Savage winning it at Mania. Later you decide if you want to do “The Ultimate Challenge” at the next Mania. Edited January 20, 2022 by LoneWolf&Subs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 considering Rude was out of the WWF after that Summerslam match (which I think was a pay dispute)... i'm not sure if they could have really waited without Rude departing. Also, Rude and Bad News both left over Summerslam checks? makes one wonder what the expectations were or how much the checks dropped. Meanwhile the only real name guy in the UWF in late 1990 who probably could have made some money in the WWF around that time was Nikita Koloff. The rest were under not proven, not proven yet, or guys who were in the WWF 4 years earlier. Nikita Koloff being the guy to show up and squash Nikolai Volkoff on his way to a turbo-push probably would have been better than some of how he spent 1991/1992. Although it might have come off to diehard WWF fans like how they thought the Legion of Doom were Demolition knockoffs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 hour ago, zendragon said: The truth is Vince has finally seen Charlie and The Chocolate Factory Look at the date of Kyle's tweet. Crazy lol. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 imagine how much easier it would be to claim Gunther as an inside joke nickname for Walter if not for the whole abortive copyright on a certain name thing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintedbynumbers Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 3 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said: They held off on Warrior/Savage until after Warrior dropped the belt, which led to that awesome WM match which is the best example of catharsis that I can think of in pro wrestling, but which didn't help Warrior's run at all. I'm not sure that there were many good options, but Rude just was not at that level in 1990 and that feud had been done already. I don't think you can save the title reign of such a limited worker like Warrior, but Savage and Earthquake as opponents instead of Rude and being like, "feud with Demolition, I guess" might have made his run less of a flop. Warrior and Savage had a few cage matches right before Warrior lost the title I believe. I wish DIbiase would have been pushed as a more credible challenge to Warrior. Or Mr. Perfect even. Nobody thought Rude had a snowballs in hell of winning that Summerslam 90 match. Also, Bully Ray can fuck off and go to hell. Jon Moxley doesn't owe him anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vgmastr Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 The one guy I think the WWF could have built up as a monster heel for Warrior was the Barbarian. The Powers of Pain had just split up and neither guy really did anything for the rest of their time in the company. Of the two, Barbarian was by far the better worker, had the better makeover with the skulls and antlers and had Heenan as a mouthpiece. I think he could have pulled a good match out of Warrior and seeing the Barbarian just squashing dudes in the buildup would have been great. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) Yeah, that’s not a bad choice really. Could’ve really played up the two warriors thing between the two. Another thing that doesn’t get brought up enough, is that after he won the belt they wanted Warrior to tone down the gimmick for public appearance purposes. Which killed the mystique. Edited January 21, 2022 by LoneWolf&Subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) FYI (and I've missed some posting so forgive me if this has been brought up already) but New Japan is re-debuting on AXSTV in about 45 minutes. Just a reminder. EDIT: Whoops. I guess it isn't coming back with new stuff until March 3rd, so tonight will be... some kinda footage? EDIT II: It's Jericho vs. Omega from 2018. I guess they wanted to start with a bunch of blood and cursing on purpose. Completely forgot Josh Barnett was on commentary! Edited January 21, 2022 by Curt McGirt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordi the former AEW fan Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) I have somehow never seen this before. Shatner is a lot funnier when he isn't trying to be funny, but him doing Rey's theme is pertnear priceless. Edited January 21, 2022 by Gordlow 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said: I think Hogan Vs. Warrior was the key mistake in Warrior’s failure to launch. Not only did it force fans to pick a side, but it was also not that big of a draw. Hogan should’ve lost the belt to Savage prior to WM 6, then you start the Warrior run there with Savage winning it at Mania. Later you decide if you want to do “The Ultimate Challenge” at the next Mania. Hogan doing to Warrior what he essentially did to Sting 17 years later (Manipulate it so that he essentially buried the guy he "put over") was what sunk Warrior right off the bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Vgmastr said: The one guy I think the WWF could have built up as a monster heel for Warrior was the Barbarian. The Powers of Pain had just split up and neither guy really did anything for the rest of their time in the company. Of the two, Barbarian was by far the better worker, had the better makeover with the skulls and antlers and had Heenan as a mouthpiece. I think he could have pulled a good match out of Warrior and seeing the Barbarian just squashing dudes in the buildup would have been great. Haku actually dragged a couple of decent TV matches out of Warrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 I wish instead of everyone on Twitter tweeting "Fuck Bully Ray" everyone instead pointed out how he really is THE guy most responsible for killing off ROH by pissing off NJPW (having access to their talent was essentially their bread and butter) with his complete idiocy at the MSG Supershow. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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