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January 2022 Discussion of Wrestling


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30 minutes ago, Robert s said:

Funny that this coming from someone with your user name. "Sturm" in German is related to "Stürmer" and I think "Der Stürmer" might also be well known among English-speakers with a faint knowledge of 1930ies and 40ies European history.

I know, that was the joke I made in my previous post! I'd change it, but am choosing to trust that fifteen years or so of posting about once a month in a generally inoffensive manner are enough to have conveyed a general aura of ''not a Nazi'.

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18 minutes ago, SturmCRF said:

I know, that was the joke I made in my previous post! I'd change it, but am choosing to trust that fifteen years or so of posting about once a month in a generally inoffensive manner are enough to have conveyed a general aura of ''not a Nazi'.

When I see your name, I think of Sturm und Drang and Goethe and Mozart, if that makes you feel better! 

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11 hours ago, The Idiot King said:

I don’t mean this as a slight to the performer himself (who I enjoy) or an endorsement of whatever is going on with the new name aesthetically or otherwise, but hasn’t WALTER’s gimmick always been a little uhhhhh Nazi-suggestive? Nazi-flirtatious? Am I crazy?

I think he's mostly just leaning into the "stoic German (Austrian) professional" stereotype. I think a good question to ask here is what would a non-comedic German heel have to do to not draw nazi comparisons from an American audience?

Also, all this Imperium talk has reminded me of another question I've been pondering: Is "Dresden Hatchetman" Alexander Wolfe the coolest nickname ever wasted on a jobber?

Edited by Go2Sleep
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20 minutes ago, SturmCRF said:

I know, that was the joke I made in my previous post! I'd change it, but am choosing to trust that fifteen years or so of posting about once a month in a generally inoffensive manner are enough to have conveyed a general aura of ''not a Nazi'.

Okay, I wasn't completey sure that this was what you meant by "not throwing stones". My point being that someone wants to see Nazi or whatever symbolic, they will succeed in a lot of things. I guess you can read the Imperium entrance as having some Nazi-symbolism, at the same time, there is not more there than a couple of German-speakers doing a military gimmick. They avoided a lot of bad stuff they could have done (using Dvořák instead of e.g. Wagner, explicitly using the current flags on their attire, AFAIR no red (in addition to the black and white) on their gear; even the term Imperium is a term that I would more associate with pre-WW1 Europe (Sacrum Romanum Imperium - and yes, I realize that "Reich" is the German word for "Imperium")).

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2 minutes ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

I thought of Sturm & Drang by KMFDM because I'm an uncultured swine, lol

I once saw them by accident when I intended to see Kylesa and had failed to grasp that the Islington Academy had two venues in one building. Decent show, but I was very confused for a lot of it.

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I'm reminded of how Roy Thomas created a WWIi German speedster in All-Star Squadron (or Young All-Stars) named Zyklon, which is German gor Cyclone. But, because of Zyklon B, there was a stink and I think (but not sure) they changed it. 

It's interesting how some WW II words have a stigma and some don't (like Blitz/Blitzkrieg).

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6 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

I think he's mostly just leaning into the "stoic German (Austrian) professional" stereotype.

I would agree with this. The funny thing is, that the (eastern-)Austrian stereotype (in the German-speaking countries) is actually much different from that. The classical stereotype of Viennese people is unfriendly (to the point of actively rude), minimalistic in their work effort and through-and-through opportunistic.

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14 minutes ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

I thought of Sturm & Drang by KMFDM because I'm an uncultured swine, lol

I'm not really into KMFDM (and I do like "Enjoy the Silence," so maybe I'm the uncultured swine to KMFDM and their fans), but I think this counts as culture, dammit. 

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23 minutes ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

I thought of Sturm & Drang by KMFDM because I'm an uncultured swine, lol

Better than me. I mostly think of it from the Destiny 2 gun set. I still don't know how I knew the term before then.

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20 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Also, would people be as upset if he had a Prussian Erich von Stroheim type gimmick, which us just as stereotypical, or is "just" the WWII comparisons? 

IDK, does he shoot strange films? Is he in a tag team with an American with a D.W. Griffith gimmick?

If Vince had any culture, he absolutely would create that tag team, btw.

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2 hours ago, Eivion said:

Have to admit I have felt for a while that Imperium is a Japanese wrestler away from being an Axis Powers reference.

I only saw NXT a couple of times but the impression I came away with was that it was already a WWII reference. 

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5 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I'm pretty  sure Vince has seen Sunset Boulevard by now. 

I would assume so considering Goldust existed back in 1995, but when it comes to popular culture with Vince, it's a crapshoot.

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46 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

I think he's mostly just leaning into the "stoic German (Austrian) professional" stereotype. I think a good question to ask here is what would a non-comedic German heel have to do to not draw nazi comparisons from an American audience?

Also, all this Imperium talk has reminded me of another question I've been pondering: Is "Dresden Hatchetman" Alexander Wolfe the coolest nickname ever wasted on a jobber?

“Dresden Hatchetman” for Wolfe is like when Alex Riley got “Say it to my face” as his theme music…

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14 minutes ago, just drew said:

“Dresden Hatchetman” for Wolfe is like when Alex Riley got “Say it to my face” as his theme music…

That's an amazing comparison, but you take that back! You take that back, right now! You hear me?!

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1 hour ago, Raziel said:

People acting like Hanlon's Razor doesn't exist.

I think this is genuinely the most likely thing when it comes to the whole Gunther Stark thing. It 'sounded cool' and someone didn't bother to google it. The WWE is too corporate and cautious these days to be out here being like, "Check it out, this guy is a Nazi." 

37 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

I think he's mostly just leaning into the "stoic German (Austrian) professional" stereotype. I think a good question to ask here is what would a non-comedic German heel have to do to not draw nazi comparisons from an American audience?

Also, all this Imperium talk has reminded me of another question I've been pondering: Is "Dresden Hatchetman" Alexander Wolfe the coolest nickname ever wasted on a jobber?

This is a really fair question and I am not 100% sure. I think because it's wrestling, everything is usually in these broad strokes and often trafficking in stereotypes because of the medium itself and also, hey, it's always worked before, so what conveys a scary German? This stuff. I would say WALTER's gimmick is mostly that -- scary German who chops people. It just has a lot of aesthetic trappings to suggest that a scary German is a Nazi which, I mean, not wrong! I only find it strange that nobody seems to acknowledge this, and will argue very, very loudly (not here, you're all lovely!) about how CLEARLY that's not the case. If you showed 10 non-wrestling fans the Imperium entrance and asked them what they thought their whole deal was, it might be more obvious.

That being said, he worked some version of this gimmick IN Germany, so I have no idea how it was received or viewed there vs. how it comes across to an American audience.

 

1 minute ago, odessasteps said:

I'm pretty  sure Vince has seen Sunset Boulevard by now. 

The only time I've ever thought it was a shame that the Fabulous Moolah is dead.

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