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AEW - January 2022


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2 hours ago, Matt D said:

Khan has it on record that one of his biggest priorities in putting Dynamite together is having good, long and varied matches on TV every week. That’s why the show’s format won’t switch up. That’s a big reason why the roster is so big. That part is all by design, even if you may or may not agree with his goal.

 

It also helps a lot that those who aren't on Dynamite are still getting a check, and they are still working indies on the weekend if they want. 

 

I suspect the women's match placement on Dynamite might be a TNT corporate decision- let's hope it changes some with the move to TBS.

 

I do have some worries that AEW is choking off their low-card talent with all these signings!

 

 

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5. Sting debuts at AEW Winter is Coming Dynamite, 2nd December 2020.

4. Mr Brodie Lee vs. Cody. AEW Dynamite, 7th October 2020. *****.

3. Thunder Rosa vs. Dr Britt Baker. AEW St Patrick's Day Dynamite, 17th March 2021. *****.

2. Adam Page vs. Bryan Danielson. AEW Winter is Coming Dynamite, 15th December 2021. *****

1. Kenny Omega vs. Bryan Danielson. AEW Dynamite Grand Slam, 22nd September 2021. *****.

It says favourite but I can't rank the tribute show to the late, great Mr. Brodie Lee as we wish it didn't have to happen in the first place.

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9 hours ago, Craig H said:

Tony Nese was indeed a really bad signing. What's worse is they keep showing him in the crowd during matches. Who the fuck thinks this jobber is going to beat anyone? 

Fish was unnecessary. They have a million tag teams. Another with Fish and KOR is fine I guess if they didn't have a ton of other teams already. 

Is Big Show really needed? 

If I never saw anyone from Gunn Club ever again I don't even think i would notice.

Abaddon is basically sitting, waiting around until next Halloween. 

Do we really need to have EVERYONE in the Nightmare Family or the Factory signed to AEW?

Guess what? TH2 are still in the company. Why? 

I would probably cut Andrade. As much as I liked him before, I tend to think he's lost a step unless it's a big match like the ones with Pac or Cody.

Brian Cage? See ya.

 

48 minutes ago, Krone Meltzer said:

Scanning through the AEW roster page and I see they have 95 active wrestlers which is just absurd to me - let alone with three hours of National TV. I get keeping it fresh, and having Dark/Elevation, but I think you could easily trim that number by 20 and still be in completely fine shape.



I promise I'm not trying to be a dick with this reply. But why are you guys demanding a bunch of people lose their livelihoods? Are you really that worried about AEW's finances that you're demanding budget cuts WWE style? AEW doesn't release people. They let the contracts that they agree to run their course, even if they decide they don't have interest in someone. I get that AEW has more parts than it needs. But all this hand wringing about who they should fire is some corporate America stockholm syndrome shit.

No one needs to be cut. AEW made a lot of agreements. They have the money to honor those agreements, whether there is use of the talent anymore or not. Like would you really prefer Joey Janela & Sonny Kiss (two people they obviously don't put on tv anymore) get fired and not be able to pay their bills just so you guys can keep track of a roster page easier or whatever? Even Brian Cage who openly talked shit on them. They don't have anything planned for him but why fire him and make his life harder? They agreed to pay him x dollars over three years. He's getting x dollars unless he himself asks not to be held to the agreement. That's how wrestling contracts SHOULD work.

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40 minutes ago, alstein said:

 

It also helps a lot that those who aren't on Dynamite are still getting a check, and they are still working indies on the weekend if they want. 

 

I suspect the women's match placement on Dynamite might be a TNT corporate decision- let's hope it changes some with the move to TBS.

 

I do have some worries that AEW is choking off their low-card talent with all these signings!

 

 

I mean, yeah, but that's why you signed those folks when AEW started. To fill out your roster until better talent became available. 20 names can come off of this roster no problem. Janela, TH2, Kaz, The Gunns, Sabian, Brian Cage, Marko Stunt, The Sydals, Peter Avalon, Leva Bates, Serpentico, Luther, Solo, Comoroto, Paul Wight and Penelope Ford. I'm iffiest on Ford, but I figure there's little chance she stays if Sabian gets the axe.

 

The Nese signing puzzles me, too. Particularly how he's being presented. No one on earth gives a shit about Tony Nese. He's better body Aaron Solo. The thought that TK passed on Bud Murphy to sign that dude baffles me.

 

I personally wouldn't have signed Fish & o'Reilly, because they don't give you anything you don't already have, but I get there being a bit of a "we beat yo uso bad we moved you off your night AND took the guys you built around" to that. And I love petty shit like that, so I'm down. 

I'm mystified y the idea that AEW shouldn't have signed Andrade. Their usage of him has been sus, but he projects as a star and I bet at some point in 2022 they figure it out with him. It took them a minute to get Miro really going, too. 

PAC's issues have been mostly visa related, iirc. When he's around he's fucking killer. If htey have long term plans for Hangman, a callback to their early feud would do wonders for both guys. Have them mention that Page never beat PAC clean and go from there. 

Moving forward, I agree that they have to be more judicious in their FA spending. No more vanilla midgets like Nese and Fish. Keith Lee, Shane Strickland, Mia Yim, Taya Valkyrie, Ember Moon. Folks who give you something you don't already have. Brody King would work, given his connection to Malakai. But you have enough superworkers. 2022 has to be about building stars and adding stars.

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12 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

 



I promise I'm not trying to be a dick with this reply. But why are you guys demanding a bunch of people lose their livelihoods? Are you really that worried about AEW's finances that you're demanding budget cuts WWE style? AEW doesn't release people. They let the contracts that they agree to run their course, even if they decide they don't have interest in someone. I get that AEW has more parts than it needs. But all this hand wringing about who they should fire is some corporate America stockholm syndrome shit.

No one needs to be cut. AEW made a lot of agreements. They have the money to honor those agreements, whether there is use of the talent anymore or not. Like would you really prefer Joey Janela & Sonny Kiss (two people they obviously don't put on tv anymore) get fired and not be able to pay their bills just so you guys can keep track of a roster page easier or whatever? Even Brian Cage who openly talked shit on them. They don't have anything planned for him but why fire him and make his life harder? They agreed to pay him x dollars over three years. He's getting x dollars unless he himself asks not to be held to the agreement. That's how wrestling contracts SHOULD work.

 

It's not like Brian Cage can't earn money on the indies on top of his AEW contract.  If he lost his AEW contract, at most NJPW/WWE would open up to him, but neither of them would be interested.  No one's career is hurt by being signed by AEW.

 

Sonny Kiss is someone (and it pains me to say this) who shouldn't be renewed- though the door should be open for her to return if she tears it up on the indies.  Janela has his scouting/connections, which are his real value.

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Just to reiterate my point a bit, what option does firing someone open up that isn't already available? If Tony Kahn wants Johnny Gargano, he can sign Johnny Gargano. It's not an either or kind of thing. Oh shit he wants Gargano but the only way he has room to write his name on this piece of paper is by erasing someone else's name first. Bye bye Kip Sabian. That's not how it works. There's no salary cap or roster limit.

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You're essentially advocating what Vince was doing, which was talent hoarding. How did that go for WCW? Shit, how did that even work out for the people in WWE? They grew frustrated by not even being used to the point where their position in the company was sitting in catering became a meme.

Just because you can sign everyone that becomes available doesn't mean you should. 

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The only discernable difference between WWE talent hoarding and AEW talent hoarding is with AEW you can work elsewhere if Tony approves it.  Which I guess "We're not using you, stay home, but you can work GCW or VFWHall Wrestling if you really want to in the mean time" is slightly better than "Sit in catering every week in case we change our minds:, but I'd still rather be able to go where I please if you're just paying me to not show up in Orlando.

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2 minutes ago, Craig H said:

You're essentially advocating what Vince was doing, which was talent hoarding. How did that go for WCW? Shit, how did that even work out for the people in WWE? They grew frustrated by not even being used to the point where their position in the company was sitting in catering became a meme.

Just because you can sign everyone that becomes available doesn't mean you should. 

See the difference is WWE was locking people into deals and then they and only they got to choose what your fate. They would fire you on a whim or keep you locked in catering even if you didn't want to be there. AEW doesn't do that. It's not a guessing game. It's not a lock down. If you sign a 3 year deal, you will get paid for the full 3 years. If you're not happy and you think you can do better elsewhere, they will release you if you ask for it (Kylie Rae). It's about stability and giving the wrestlers the power over their own lives. You can buy a home because you know for at least the next 3 years you will be making x dollars a month. In WWE when can you really feel safe enough to buy a home? WWE will cut you on a whim to project a better stock number. You have no job security at all.

The Kahns are worth EIGHT BILLION. They are also business men with multiple pro sports franchises that turn a profit. Yes The Jags suck on the field. But The Jags make money. They are profitable. AEW is profitable. You gotta stop sweating the dollars and cents like this is TNA and people's checks will bounce if they cross over a cap number. If he signs 15 more people than what you would, all that means is 15 more people are making a living that they otherwise wouldn't. It doesn't mean AEW will close because they spent too much money.

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You also get a sense of certain things by listening to the AEW podcast. I forget who it was, but someone (someone on the Griff/Hobbs/Red Velvet type level but I forget exactly who, not one of them) was talking about how they started with one contract and then moved up to a second contract and then finally got to the third level of contract. And Aubrey and Tony sort of acknowledged it and that there were different levels but then moved on quickly. We can judge things on the TV product, and I get that people have criticisms there. That's totally fine. Go for it! Some of the criticisms that people seem to be making past that, however, rely upon levels of assumptions that we probably don't have enough information about, especially relative to WWE where we've seen contracts through legal matters and know a ton about very detailed specifics. Someone who has really followed this stuff for years can make some very educated critiques about WWE. I think that's much more difficult with AEW since it's the blind man touching the elephant.

I saw the Daniel Garcia IWTV Day in the Life Of thing, and he had a flexible day job while working indy shots. That was what, six months ago? He still works some indy spots. Does he still have to have a day job? Does he have more booking options that he can take more selectively so long as AEW approves? Does being associated with AEW help these guys with PWTees sales? 

I guess what I'm asking is this: Craig, can you explain to me the 3 levels of AEW contracts and how the approval process works for guys working indies at each level or doing different things? Have we heard anecdotally about people on the lower end of the card not being allowed to take certain opportunities/bookings if they weren't otherwise being used? I haven't but I've only been paying really close attention for the last few months.

Edited by Matt D
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56 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

 



I promise I'm not trying to be a dick with this reply. But why are you guys demanding a bunch of people lose their livelihoods? Are you really that worried about AEW's finances that you're demanding budget cuts WWE style? AEW doesn't release people. They let the contracts that they agree to run their course, even if they decide they don't have interest in someone. I get that AEW has more parts than it needs. But all this hand wringing about who they should fire is some corporate America stockholm syndrome shit.

No one needs to be cut. AEW made a lot of agreements. They have the money to honor those agreements, whether there is use of the talent anymore or not. Like would you really prefer Joey Janela & Sonny Kiss (two people they obviously don't put on tv anymore) get fired and not be able to pay their bills just so you guys can keep track of a roster page easier or whatever? Even Brian Cage who openly talked shit on them. They don't have anything planned for him but why fire him and make his life harder? They agreed to pay him x dollars over three years. He's getting x dollars unless he himself asks not to be held to the agreement. That's how wrestling contracts SHOULD work.

Brother, I am not asking for people to lose their livelihoods, I can promise you that. I was imploring that people didn't need to be signed. Hence why later in my post I talked about sprinkles and not so much a Christian Cage or a Matt Sydal. Those guys were free agents when they were signed. Not trying to be rude, just saying, everyone who's a free agent can't/doesn't need to be signed. You can't always have your cake and eat it. Sometimes, things have to give - and to be fair - just like WWE, AEW can't stockpile on talent they aren't going to use. If it wasn't fair in WWE, it's not fair in AEW.

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I think the threshhold for AEW and where you can work is some sort of COVID protocol, and not having your own TV to compere with AEW.

I doubt any AEW talent will get to consistently work for ROH for example, and Mox wasn't allowed to work any US NJPW shows.

 

Tony Khan deprived the US of seeing Taichi in action, that can only be forgiven if he gets Dangerous Tekkers through the forbidden door to face FTR or Mox/Eddie.

 

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It's just a selective argument. You're cherry picking "jobbers" when I'm stating names from Matt Sydal to Christian Cage. I have no issues with Peter Avalon, Chaos Project, ect. I would like to see MORE of those people who... have never had the national stage or a platform like Dynamite to showcase themselves. You picked the wrong person in Avalon cause I love the Wingmen lol

Nobody is arguing there isn't a place for those types of people in AEW. At least, I don't think I ever even said anything close to that. I'm just asking for names that haven't had the platform to showcase their talents get that and are allowed to grow. We saw Britt Baker's growth first hand on Dynamite. GIMME MORE OF THAT. Dante Martin is a good example right now, but with their roster, there's a litany of other names I'd love to see evolve. Acclaimed, Varsity Blondes, Lee Johnson, Nick Comoroto, and that's not even getting into other teams who have been placed on the back burner like PnP.

Plus, the more male names you add, apparently the less female talent we get to see develop. Since we're limited to one match per week. I'm not asking to see everyone every week, I'm just saying 100 people for 3 hours of National TV a week is A LOT of people. Especially with the model AEW uses for weekly TV (5/6 matches per week). Now if you want to discuss that maybe having a different model would allow for more "prosperous" opportunities, I'd be open to that discussion but as it stands right now - like others have said - the model they have just doesn't work for that much talent.

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11 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I guess what I'm asking is this: Craig, can you explain to me the 3 levels of AEW contracts and how the approval process works for guys working indies at each level or doing different things? Have we heard anecdotally about people on the lower end of the card not being allowed to take certain opportunities/bookings if they weren't otherwise being used? I haven't but I've only been paying really close attention for the last few months.

The way it was explained by multiple folks at different levels in AEW and by Meltzer is that there are indeed three levels of contracts. Tier 2 is like what local talent get or folks on Dark get. During the Dailys Place era, a ton of people were signed to those lower tier contracts. Tier 1 is more of a regular appearance contract, which is what someone like Fuego used to be signed to. Tier 0 is when you're "#AllElite." 

People on the two lower tier contracts are free to work anywhere, but you basically don't want to pass on the opportunity to work a spot on Dark or something. The highest tier is more restrictive with regards to working spots elsewhere. From what has been said on podcasts, those need to be approved, but TK seems to be pretty lenient as long as there is no TV component. Even then, exceptions are made like Mox showing up in GCW. 

Every now and then you'll see a burst of talent working indy spots, but then nothing for months at a time. It makes me wonder just how lenient that whole policy of working elsewhere is. I guess we won't find out for sure until some of these contracts start expiring. 

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When does the contract with Turner come up? One thing we might be overlooking is that TK may expect to pitch more weekly hours of content, or that Turner might DEMAND more, as USA has done with Raw. We may like Rampage at the length it is, but money talks.

EDIT: And if it's true that a streaming service is closer than any of us realize, as Tony claims, who knows if they put an exclusive show on there? Lots of unknowns here, which makes it suspect for us on the outside to confidently say this or that isn't the right talent strategy.

Edited by Dog
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2 minutes ago, Dog said:

When does the contract with Turner come up? One thing we might be overlooking is that TK may expect to pitch more weekly hours of content, or that Turner might DEMAND more, as USA has done with Raw. We may like Rampage at the length it is, but money talks.

EDIT: And if it's true that a streaming service is closer than any of us realize, as Tony claims, who knows if they put an exclusive show on there? Lots of unknowns for us on the outside to confidently say this or that isn't the right talent strategy.

The Turner contract is going to be interesting, as mid-year Warner and Discovery are merging with Discovery's exec's taking charge (at last last I read that was the plan), so who knows.

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22 minutes ago, Jiji said:

If Khan were going to cut people for budgetary reasons, don't you think it would have happened during a pandemic in which they had zero income from ticket sales?

He, Megha, Cody, and others said it wouldn't be right to release folks during last year because no one else was that open for business. 

And to be fair, I'm not saying to release anyone for budgetary reasons. I'm saying that a lot of these dudes didn't even need to be signed in the first place. I did mention to cut Andrade, but that's coming from a place of watching that guy and seeing his level of motivation is kinda crap unless he's working a high profile match. I'm also willing to see if he takes a Miro like turn for the better now that he's escaped the Codyverse. 

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Just now, Raziel said:

The Turner contract is going to be interesting, as mid-year Warner and Discovery are merging with Discovery's exec's taking charge (at last last I read that was the plan), so who knows.

I think this is one area where Meltzer may be spot on. If you look at how much money NHL and other sports are getting despite having half the amount of viewers of AEW then it stands to reason that AEW and WWE are positioned extremely well to bring in even more money. Who knows if AEW stays on TBS and TNT, but those channels being home to AEW, NBA, NHL, and MLB postseason is an extremely attractive portfolio to have. It's certainly better than USA, although who knows how much USA is going to change since all NBC Comcast Sports stuff is moving to USA.

In any event, I don't think WWE and AEW will start getting major sports money, but I could see them getting more than they're getting now.

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With some guys, being signed was the only way they could keep their visas, for instance. I think that was the deal with 2.0. I'm not saying they were signed because they have friends in the promotion or anything, but I'm glad they were signed. They've contributed.

Look, I've been very vocal that I think they should use Dark better with video packages or brief mentions on the main shows, but one of the real strengths of AEW relative to WWE is that we're not seeing the same match up week in and week out. I really think that over the span of years having all of these interconnected wrestlers with history with one another is going to create a broader framework where they can dump almost any pairing together on a Wednesday night and have it mean something due to history and the way things have been rotated while not seeming stale. That's quite the investment both for viewers and the company but it's like the world's best version of 97 WCW where Greg Valentine could randomly come out on a Nitro since they go to great effort to make every match every Wednesday mean something instead of a guy just coming out.

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