Dynamite - WINTER IS COMING - 12/15/2021

[Matt D]

14 hours ago, Jiji said:

What do you mean by that? Are there... Rumours? 

13 hours ago, Stefanie the Human said:

Just people going their own way.

Given Khan's comments over the last few weeks about layering surprises for the last few TNT and the first few TBS Dynamites and the "branding" of Winter is Coming as the show where Sting arrived, I'd be very surprised if we don't see someone show up tonight. 

[Lawful Metal]

I think Danielson wins.  If they wanted Page to have a long reign, I think we're all conditioned to expect him to fight a Kane-type monster, like Archer or Miro for example, first. 

[The Natural]

There's wrestlers better suited to the chase than the actual reign. If I had to make a prediction, Page retains the AEW World Championship. I hope Danielson wins.

[Jiji]

Yeah, Page will likely win and that's how you build up new stars... but...

I feel like KOR and Gargano, should they be crossing the line, will want some time off but who knows. I've heard from little birds that Kyle is all but a lock but things can change, as sayeth the Meltz.

[Technico Support]

It's awesome that we're all debating how they'll book things after a clean win by either guy instead of wondering how they'll "get out of" this booking with some bullshit.  Contrast that with Full Gear 2020 where a lot of people here were wondering how they'd get out of the Bucks/FTR "Bucks won't get another shot if they lose" match and Mox/Kingston I quit match, where the company did the unthinkable and just did straight finishes.  TK is building booking goodwill and it's really cool to see. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Technico Support

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

Personally I think whoever's left of the Dark Order should merc Danielson because I think 1 year on from the passing of Brodie you have to go somewhere with them. 

[Matt D]

Dark Order is very over as a mid-card quasi-comedy act. You need acts like that, the clowns in the circus. They're the heart and soul of the company and I'm not sure you need to necessarily go anywhere with them, save for maybe a mid-card face push for Silver and eventually 10 or Angels. Their biggest value is to fill the roster gap for lower-card babyfaces who heels can go over. You have a ton of heels like that in the company, but for babyfaces, it's them and Fuego, Kazarian, Sydal, maybe a few more guys. Having these seven or so guys there week in and week out to competitively put over heels you want to push matters a lot.

[The Natural]

I liked the Johnny Gargano from #DIY in 2016 and Johnny Gargano from 2018. I hated the Gargano/Adam Cole and Cole/Tommaso Ciampa matches. If it's more the Johnny I liked, I'd be down with it. Roderick Strong was the best wrestler in the Undisputed Era.

[Coletti]

1 hour ago, Jiji said:

Yeah, Page will likely win and that's how you build up new stars... but...

I feel like KOR and Gargano, should they be crossing the line, will want some time off but who knows. I've heard from little birds that Kyle is all but a lock but things can change, as sayeth the Meltz.

If it wasn't for the angle last week where FTR attacked Darby and Sting, I would put money on the Briscoe's showing up tonight. I suppose you could still have it happen, maybe with the brothers making the save.

Edited to say that Windham Rotunda hasn't been mentioned in a while, which would make it more of a surprise...

Edited December 15, 2021 by christopher.annino

[J.T.]

2 hours ago, Lawful Metal said:

I think Danielson wins.  If they wanted Page to have a long reign, I think we're all conditioned to expect him to fight a Kane-type monster, like Archer or Miro for example, first. 

My heart says that you wouldn't book Page to lose in his first title defense, but my head says that Danielson should pulp Page inside of thirty minutes.   I have no idea how this should go.

1 hour ago, Jiji said:

I feel like KOR and Gargano, should they be crossing the line, will want some time off but who knows. I've heard from little birds that Kyle is all but a lock but things can change, as sayeth the Meltz.

The booking where Adam Cole fills the SuperKliq with his own personnel while Kenny is away leading to Cole / reDRagon vs. Kenny / Bucks for control of the Elite pretty much writes itself.

As for Gargano, if he's not in an AEW ring between now and the birth of his kid, I think there is a chance he heads back to WWE.

If Bayley keeps throwing Twitter shade on her employers, she may be vying for the TBS title in a few months.

Edited December 15, 2021 by J.T.

[J.T.]

1 hour ago, RunningFromAmerica said:

Personally I think whoever's left of the Dark Order should merc Danielson because I think 1 year on from the passing of Brodie you have to go somewhere with them. 

AEW needs to get this Trios championship off of the ground so that Dark Order can win and defend them with Freebird rules.

[Matt D]

20 minutes ago, J.T. said:

AEW needs to get this Trios championship off of the ground so that Dark Order can win and defend them with Freebird rules.

At the very least they need one of those giant Japanese trophies for the Super Stable Stadium Stampede Invitational.

[Just Dave]

2 hours ago, J.T. said:

My heart says that you wouldn't book Page to lose in his first title defense, but my head says that Danielson should pulp Page inside of thirty minutes.   I have no idea how this should go.

The booking where Adam Cole fills the SuperKliq with his own personnel while Kenny is away leading to Cole / reDRagon vs. Kenny / Bucks for control of the Elite pretty much writes itself.

As for Gargano, if he's not in an AEW ring between now and the birth of his kid, I think there is a chance he heads back to WWE.

If Bayley keeps throwing Twitter shade on her employers, she may be vying for the TBS title in a few months.

I've said this for a while, but if I'm Bayley WWE would have to seriously overpay me for me to stay, after losing out on Wrestlemania revenue in 2020 after she carried that company for almost a year. Ruby is close with her, apparently. Time for TK to start back-channeling.

Edited December 15, 2021 by just drew

[SturmCRF]

Not sure who I want to win. I prefer Danielson, obviously, but he won't be hurt by a loss and Page might be. And normal AEW booking is to build a heel or quasi heel up to be unstoppable with an unbeaten streak when they come in, then have them lose definitively in the big title match to be reheated as needed. In BD's case, he can lose, switch back to unbeatable babyface with one handshake and busy himself with literally anyone on the roster for a few months until he's ready for a title run.

He doesn't need the belt yet, but I kind of want him to win it to break the pattern of long reigns. I like them, but only doing extended title runs can hurt the drama with any defence prior to the obvious coronation. Kenny vs Christian and vs Pac/OC were very good, but hurt by being obvious filler on the road to Hangman. In this case at least they have people genuinely unsure of the result, so they've sort of solved that issue for now, whether you credit a strong challenger or a vulnerable champion.

Not gonna stay up to watch live, but think I might have to set my alarm for 5 and watch it before work.

[Infinit]

As much as I love the Dragon, Hangman needs to win tonight. To have Page go through this redemption arc and lose in his first defense would really suck. Danielson can lose, come back and ratchet up the heelishness and violence, and he becomes a monster someone needs to slay down the road.

[Coletti]

59 minutes ago, just drew said:

I've said this for a while, but if I'm Bayley WWE would have to seriously overpay me for me to stay, after losing out on Wrestlemania revenue in 2020 after she carried that company for almost a year. Ruby is close with her, apparently. Time for TK to start back-channeling.

Of the Four Horsewomen, Bayley is absolutely the one I want to jump to AEW. Meanwhile, it seems like Andrade and Charlotte split so I can imagine her no longer feeling as compelled to leave - plus I'm sure Vince would back a dump truck of cash up to her front door.

[Just Dave]

2 minutes ago, christopher.annino said:

Of the Four Horsewomen, Bayley is absolutely the one I want to jump to AEW. Meanwhile, it seems like Andrade and Charlotte split so I can imagine her no longer feeling as compelled to leave - plus I'm sure Vince would back a dump truck of cash up to her front door.

There's been conflicting reports about Andrade and Charlotte, but none of the other Horsewomen are going anywhere. Sasha thinks she can act, Becky is probably one of the 4 most over acts in the company, and for whatever reason, Vince and Kevin think Charlotte is to be built around. Bayley, the best worker of the four of them, has gotten left out in the cold more than once. Might be time for her to go solo.

[HarryArchieGus]

Hangman's post title win booking has been a bit suspect.  A month or so back during the title celebration, Danielson called him out for not being a fighting champion and he's still not had a single bout.  I have few complaints with AEW, and easily take any weaknesses or misfires when the strengths are so beautifully plentiful, but the Hangman post-title booking seems a hair off.  Had he scored some victories, or a single well fought victory, going into this match a draw could work nicely leading to a rematch.  That said, a draw now makes Hangman much more vulnerable as their top guy.  Page needs to win this match decisively (I believe he will) and go on a mad spree messing some heel-folks up in the weeks to follow. 

AEW in general could use some work towards improving the frequency of well booked weekly appearances for their top stars.  That's not to say I don't love the variety we get week to week, but Danielson kicking in heads every week since becoming the number 1 contender all the while Champion Hangman Page's appearances amount to a couple of lame duck saves is a wee bit problematic.

All that said, so stoked for this show.  Always love seeing Doobie Deeber mess up a foe.  And expecting an excellent MJF-Dante Martin bout.  A well placed debut would certainly be nice.  I hope the news on the 'Owen' details is true.  Surely, they follow up the buzzed about Hook debut with a segment tonight?  And Danielson-Page, no matter what the outcome, will no doubt be terrific fun.

Edited December 15, 2021 by HarryArchieGus

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Bayley would be a sneaky good signing. Her heel stuff seems fantastic from the little I've seen online, and I'd like to see what she can do as a babyface without the constraints of WWE treating her character as a literal child. I can still hear Michael Cole screeching "BAYLEY'S NEVER KISSED A BOY!" She's like 30 years old, man!

 

[Just Dave]

5 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Hangman's post title win booking has been a bit suspect.  A month or so back during the title celebration, Danielson called him out for not being a fighting champion and he's still not had a single bout.  I have few complaints with AEW, and easily take any weaknesses or misfires when the strengths or so beautifully plentiful, but the Hangman post-title booking seems a hair off.  Had he scored some victories, or a single well fought victory, going into this match a draw could work nicely leading to a rematch.  That said, a draw now makes Hangman much more vulnerable as their top guy.  Page needs to win this match decisively (I believe he will) and go on a mad spree messing some heel-folks up in the weeks to follow. 

AEW in general could use some work towards improving the frequency of well booked weekly appearances for their top stars.  That's not to say I don't love the variety we get week to week, but Danielson kicking in heads every week since becoming the number 1 contender all the while Champion Hangman Page's appearances amount to a couple of lame duck saves is a wee bit problematic.

All that said, so stoked for this show.  Always love seeing Doobie Deeber mess up a foe.  And expecting an excellent MJF-Dante Martin bout.  A well placed debut would certainly be nice.  I hope the news on the 'Owen' details is true.  Surely, they follow up the buzzed about Hook debut with a segment tonight?  

I think TK has seen WWE put all their top stars on TV every week and decided not to do that. I think there's such a thing as "overcorrection." I doubt Hangman has had any more time between title defenses than Kenny, he was just gone for a considerable amount of time before his return, wrestled like 3 times, and now as champion he isn't wrestling every week. Having your title defended less often than WWE is absolutely the right thing to do. They may have just gone too far the other way. It's one booking policy I think TK should reexamine, along with EVERY title reign having to be long and the lack of rematches. You can get away from WWE's "six month program" format without having every feud buildup culminate with exactly one match.

[HarryArchieGus]

I dig the long reigns.  The TV title has had enough switches for me to believe a title can be won/lost at any time.  If, of course, the right man or woman or team is in the challenger position.  But yeah, the lack of rematches is an issue.  It'll pay off for the some of the come back around matches (see MJF-Page), but in some cases it has lacked a bit of logic to not have said rematch.  It feels like Jericho in particular could have nicely ate a rematch loss to Mox.  And speaking of the come back around rematch, a babyface Jericho would have been a nice Dynamite win for Kenny.  I forgot that Mox and Kenny had a rematch.  Unfortunately (the pre-kerfuffle was solid), but maybe that's for the best.  I like the prestige of less frequent World Title defenses, but the long time between defenses could use to improve.

Edited December 15, 2021 by HarryArchieGus

[NoFistsJustFlips]

After seeing some ideas here it sparked an idea for me that I think might actually be a possibility. Everyone is talking about an eventual Kenny & The Bucks vs Undisputed Era civil war. What if the split happens way sooner, while Kenny is out? Hangman loses the title tonight (which will send him into a depression spin). And when The Bucks are getting their ass kicked by UE on like the TBS debut ,out of nowhere Hangman to the rescue. You run The Elite vs The Undisputed Era. Hangman gets his friends back and has a satisfying story to build himself back up. Kenny has a story when he comes back, either joining back up for a baby face Elite reunion to vanquish heel champ Danielson or being pissed that The Bucks chose Hangman over him and feuding with them.

That's where I'm leaning. You do the shock title change clean as a sheet. Hangman spirals. Danielson gets attacked by someone during his celebration and he's off to a new story (Mox, Bray, forbidden door New Japan guy, ect). In a WWE setting Hangman getting got in his first defense would spell doom, but I have enough faith in AEW booking to make it a stop on a much longer journey.

Either way they go, should be fun to see what's next.

[BobbyWhioux]

Bayley is absolutely the one person left I most want to see AEW raid from WWE.

You know what’s fun about Hangman vs Dragon? We don’t know. Because AEW is still too relatively new for us to know their booking philosophy inside and out. We kinda think we know now, but we’re not sure. Personally I think Danielson can better survive a loss right now than Page, so that’s what I sorta expect. But I don’t have the cynical certainty that comes from knowing the formula after decades of observation. Which is nice!

[The Natural]

2 hours ago, just drew said:

I've said this for a while, but if I'm Bayley WWE would have to seriously overpay me for me to stay, after losing out on Wrestlemania revenue in 2020 after she carried that company for almost a year. Ruby is close with her, apparently. Time for TK to start back-channeling.

It was a disgrace Bayley didn't get a big match at WrestleMania XXXVII. Bayley was one of the lone 2020 highlights as WWE Smackdown Live Women's Champion, becoming the Golden Role Models winning the WWE Women's Tag Team Championship with Sasha Banks then losing the WWE Smackdown Live Women's Championship to her.

[tbarrie]

6 hours ago, Lawful Metal said:

I think Danielson wins.  If they wanted Page to have a long reign, I think we're all conditioned to expect him to fight a Kane-type monster, like Archer or Miro for example, first. 

I'm surprised nobody has taken umbrage yet with your suggestion that Miro is Kane-like.