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UFC 269: Oliveira vs. Poirier (12/11/2021) - Las Vegas, NV (T-Mobile Arena)


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33 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Yeah, I had to work last night so I missed the fight.  I'm up to Nunes vs. Pena now.  Need more coffee.

Enjoy, my friend. Woke up at 01:00am for the show. I've had less than two hours. Feeling it right now. Enjoy Nunes vs. Pena and the rest of the show.

5 minutes ago, Execproducer said:

He should have been a bit more generous. Erin Blanchfield's shut-out against Miranda Maverick was bonus worthy. The fact that there wasn't a finish should be irrelevant.

 

Great show.

Agreed.

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Top three MMA upsets ever is Matt Serra vs. Georges St-Pierre 1 at UFC 69 which I'd still have #1, Holly Holm vs. Ronda Rousey from UFC 193, and Julianna Pena vs. Amanda Nunes, UFC 269 right?

Other MMA upsets deserving mention: Randy Couture vs. Tim Sylvia at UFC 68, Fabricio Werdum vs. Fedor Emelianenko under Strikeforce, Rose Namajunas vs. Joanna Jedrzejczyk 1 at UFC 217, Rose Namajunas vs. Zhang Weili at UFC 261, Michael Bisping vs. Luke Rockhold from UFC 199, Chris Weidman vs. Anderson Silva 1 at UFC 162 and Gabriel Gonzaga vs. Mirko Cro Cop, UFC 70.

Edited by The Natural
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11 hours ago, John E. Dynamite said:

Charles Olivera's first UFC fight ended with an armbar win over Darren Elkins, Joe Rogan.

This guy is so bad these days and you have DC patterning his game after him. Atrocious. "Why is Poirier holding a closed guard against the greatest submission artist in the UFC?! I don't get it it!" 

While it's hard to deny Nunes' resume, I don't know if I ever bought into the GOAT talk. She has good technique but I think often relies on her physicality too much and has long had stamina issues. She's much bigger than Pena but Pena is built like a tank relatively speaking. Her punching technique isn't anything special but after surviving round 1 all it took was a decent jab and a rudimentary 1-2. Her comments about being the first real mother champ sucked. I hope Nunes wins the rematch. 

Charles Oliveira is the man. He's matured and grown up so much in the octagon. Beautiful fight. Too bad about the glove manipulation leading to a dominant second round. I want to see Do Bronx vs. Makhachev but it seems like it's Gaethje, right? Hopefully Charles and Islam win their fights.

Cruz and Munhoz are complete opposites in a lot of ways and the footwork, pacing, and intelligence of Cruz clearly beat the power and iron skull of Munhoz. Great fight. 

Ryan Hall looked even more Ryan Hall-ish than usual. Lol cool. 

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4 hours ago, Jiji said:

This guy is so bad these days and you have DC patterning his game after him. Atrocious. "Why is Poirier holding a closed guard against the greatest submission artist in the UFC?! I don't get it it!" 

While it's hard to deny Nunes' resume, I don't know if I ever bought into the GOAT talk. She has good technique but I think often relies on her physicality too much and has long had stamina issues. She's much bigger than Pena but Pena is built like a tank relatively speaking. Her punching technique isn't anything special but after surviving round 1 all it took was a decent jab and a rudimentary 1-2. Her comments about being the first real mother champ sucked. I hope Nunes wins the rematch. 

Charles Oliveira is the man. He's matured and grown up so much in the octagon. Beautiful fight. Too bad about the glove manipulation leading to a dominant second round. I want to see Do Bronx vs. Makhachev but it seems like it's Gaethje, right? Hopefully Charles and Islam win their fights.

Cruz and Munhoz are complete opposites in a lot of ways and the footwork, pacing, and intelligence of Cruz clearly beat the power and iron skull of Munhoz. Great fight. 

Ryan Hall looked even more Ryan Hall-ish than usual. Lol cool. 

If separated by gender, I don't think Nunes' GOATness can really be argued against. She's beaten literally everyone else that could be considered (Valentina, Holm, Rousey, Cyborg) and did go six years without losing while dominating two weight classes. Jędrzejczyk loses too much to be the GOAT and Rose needs a longer run, maybe if she can keep up her current streak for a few more years. I think people over-react sometimes to one loss, sometimes a fighter just doesn't have it.

If you mean overall, yea its more debatable as its harder to compare between different eras, opponent strength, etc. etc. but for women, I think she is clearly at the top all time at the moment.

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No, I mean I think Valentina is the better fighter and the first decision was pretty questionable. The difference between the two is size. P4P best woman in my books is Shevchenko.

edit: obviously I'm going by skill, not resumes. For now, Nunes' resume is better.

Edited by Jiji
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2 minutes ago, Jiji said:

No, I mean I think Valentina is the better fighter and the first decision was pretty questionable. The difference between the two is size. P4P best woman in my books is Shevchenko.

edit: obviously I'm going by skill, not resumes. For now, Nunes' resume is better.

I just can't consider a fighter that is 0-2 against the other as the GOAT. Its not even trying to determine eras, strength of opponent, etc. when one is 2-0 against the other. Of course having a personal preference is fine and Valentina is great for sure, but since they have fought twice I think its a bit of a stretch to rank her over Nunes.

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4 hours ago, Jiji said:

While it's hard to deny Nunes' resume, I don't know if I ever bought into the GOAT talk. She has good technique but I think often relies on her physicality too much and has long had stamina issues. She's much bigger than Pena but Pena is built like a tank relatively speaking. Her punching technique isn't anything special but after surviving round 1 all it took was a decent jab and a rudimentary 1-2. Her comments about being the first real mother champ sucked. I hope Nunes wins the rematch. 

To be fair to Amanda, she (along with Mike Brown and her coaches at ATT) employ whatever strategy works best. It just happens that some of the fighters she went against would rather walk straight into the woodchipper (or don't have the ability other than to do that tbh) and don't even have the chance to extend Amanda Nunes. 9 out of 10 women wouldn't be able to do what Pena did. GdR had the striking but her grappling was still rudimentary. So Amanda chose to fight the same way she fought Germaine the first time they fought. She grappled in that fight and didn't have any stamina issues really other than a few shaky moments.

To their credit, Rick Little developed the perfect gameplan and Pena had toughness to execute it. Without the durability, anybody that got hit with anything that Nunes was throwing back in round 2 would have went down. It's a step by step process. If you can't get through steps 1 and 2 then there is no way you can get to steps 3 and 4. How many times have we heard fighters say, "all you have to do is _______" or "I see their flaws" when they go against a fighter who seems unstoppable? And then they can't even get out of round 1 or it's a Adesanya vs. Borrachinha situation where they just get embarrassed. 

Amanda finally ran into someone who had enough check marks on the check list in terms of a style matchup. However, even with that, it's not like Pena cannot be beat. She was on a losing streak not too long ago. 

12 minutes ago, Jiji said:

No, I mean I think Valentina is the better fighter and the first decision was pretty questionable. The difference between the two is size. P4P best woman in my books is Shevchenko.

Unless she finally beats Amanda, she cannot be the best P4P. I know the fights were close and Valentina is awesome, but she didn't do enough at 135 to really earn that and flyweight up until recently was rather weak. To me, that's always going to be her white whale because Amanda is still savvy enough to do just enough to beat Valentina. She (Amanda) won't even blow anyone's socks off and just completely dominate Valentina but she will show she is crafty enough to beat another crafty fighter. Size is an advantage but it ain't so much any advantage that it totally shifts the momentum of the fight. Plus, Amanda isn't one of those fighters who uses size in a way where it's obvious it's a big factor in a fight. She is trying to close the distance as opposed to keeping her distance. 

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Still in shock that Nunes lost. Going in, I thought Pena felt like a kind of random challenger coming off just one win and never would've ever expected that. Amazing fight while it lasted, had chills as they were exchanging bombs back and forth.

I never used to think much of Oliveira but he just keeps on beating everyone. Another shocker for me, thought this was Dustin's crowning night for sure.

Great and exciting victory for the man Dominick Cruz. Also great to see another victory for Erin Blanchfield and an epic submission from the Savage Gillian Robertson with one second left in the round. 

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Valentina ragdolls pretty much everybody she fights and the grappling/clinch contests with Nunes were super close. The fact that they sometimes fight 20 pounds apart to me says a lot. Nunes is a very big bantamweight, Valentina a small bantamweight and at those lower weight limits, a few pounds is a big difference. Punching power, ability to take a punch, grappling, I feel like Nunes' size was the difference between the two. In terms of technique, only a couple of women have the calibre of striking as Valentina and usually it's either with kicks or punches not both, but none of them have her grappling ability. Those elite female grapplers don't have the striking ability and often look pretty amateurish on their feet. Valentina doesn't really slow down in 5 round fights, she's smart, technical, physically strong, and very agile. She has no flaws other than her size in comparison to Nunes. I am fine being the dissenting voice on this one though. Nunes beat her twice fair and square (mostly, I will forever think Valentina won the second fight... got it confused with the first one which was Nunes' more decisively).

I think Pena's ability to withstand Nunes' power and combinations to land a couple of her own shots was the most impressive thing coming out of their fight. Also impressed with her ability to scramble to half guard when it looked like Nunes was going for mount in the first round iirc. I do think Nunes wins the rematch though. She'll probably fight a bit more reserved, probably grapple a bit more, landing strikes from guard. 

It was neat to see a Brazilian fighter named Silva out of Curitiba throwing wild hooks in a brawl. Short but spectacularly violent fight. 

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I think if anything Valentina has shown she is skilled where if you put her against a bigger bantamweight she could beat them just on her skillset. Both Irene Aldana and Yana Kunitskaya are pretty big women, but I think she beats them both walking away once she gets a feel of how they fight. Same with Ketlen Vieira. I think with Nunes...the thing is she (Amanda) isn't incredibly strong. However, she knows how to establish a strong base and use her long, lean frame to fend off takedowns. Earlier in her career, Nunes had an issue doing that. You look at the Zingano fight. She's getting into a strength contest with a woman who wants to suplex the holy hell out of her. That's just not a sound gameplan. Moreover, it just burns your muscles up and you're useless as fight goes on. I think the reason why she was able to go on that run is she wasn't setting a pace that she couldn't settle into. Yeah, against no hopers, she could just walk them down and get them out of there. Anybody else, she just established a rhythm where she could open up with low kicks or throw some 1-2s and some sharp, quick counters. She wasn't going at this frenetic pace that would end up untenable once she got tired. You put that with great gameplans, and it's a recipe for success.

Against Pena, I think what happened is she saw Pena wasn't going to just load up on ugly haymakers and leave her chin in the air. She start pushing her punches and couldn't really sit down on anything because Pena wasn't giving her a stationary target. I think that contributed more to hitting up her gas tank than anything. Pena just gave her enough to respect that distance between them. So when round 2 started playing out the way it did it became clear that Pena could hit her just as much as Nunes could hit her once they finally did engage at close range. If that was literally anyone else, Nunes would have went for the desperation takedown to try to get her bearings back. Just didn't work out that way.

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Meltzer:

For Google searches for the week, the UFC show last night did 2.7 million which means it should be a very strong number. It was the third most searched item over the weekend behind Mayfield, Kentucky and Vincente Fernandez. Aside from Dustin Poirier and Charles Oliveira, who would be counted in UFC 269 searches, Julianna Pena had 500,000 searches yesterday, and both Sean O'Malley and Cody Garbrandt had 100,000. The only other search involving wrestling, boxing or MMA was Jeff Hardy, who was No 15 on Thursday with 100,000.

Some notes on fights from last night as far as decisions went. In Geoff Neal vs. Santiago Ponzinibbio, Derek Clearly gave all three rounds to Neal, Doug Crosby only gave round three to Neal and Sal D'Amato gave one and three to Neal.  Media scores were 73 percent for  Neal.  In Josh Emmett vs. Dan Ige, which was really close, Crosby gave Emmett one and three, D'Amato gave Emmett all three rounds (no way Emmett won round two but he did win one and three was very close) and Ron McCarthy gave Emmett one and three. Media scores were 57 percent for Emmett.

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Oh yeah, that D'Amato 30-27 scorecard for Emmett was a fucking joke. Ige won a shaky decision himself last year over Barboza, but this stinks. He doesn't have the power to put guys out and he's scrappy (meaning he takes too much damage but has good recovery ability) so I guess it's just another day in the life of Dan Ige.

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On 12/12/2021 at 4:20 AM, The Natural said:

Oliveira's victory was the 29th finish from 32 career victories, and his 20th career submission. It was also his 20th win inside the UFC octagon.

Now that's a finisher.

It's nice to see the evolution of Oliveira and him finally putting it all together. There was a time where he really thought he had to be a featherweight.

Quote

For Google searches for the week, the UFC show last night did 2.7 million which means it should be a very strong number. It was the third most searched item over the weekend behind Mayfield, Kentucky and Vincente Fernandez. Aside from Dustin Poirier and Charles Oliveira, who would be counted in UFC 269 searches, Julianna Pena had 500,000 searches yesterday, and both Sean O'Malley and Cody Garbrandt had 100,000. The only other search involving wrestling, boxing or MMA was Jeff Hardy, who was No 15 on Thursday with 100,000.

Some notes on fights from last night as far as decisions went. In Geoff Neal vs. Santiago Ponzinibbio, Derek Clearly gave all three rounds to Neal, Doug Crosby only gave round three to Neal and Sal D'Amato gave one and three to Neal.  Media scores were 73 percent for  Neal.  In Josh Emmett vs. Dan Ige, which was really close, Crosby gave Emmett one and three, D'Amato gave Emmett all three rounds (no way Emmett won round two but he did win one and three was very close) and Ron McCarthy gave Emmett one and three. Media scores were 57 percent for Emmett.

Ironic considering he and Garrett Gonzalez were neg'ing the main event, Poirier, and its buzz over the weekend.

Edited by TheVileOne
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