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December 2021 Wrestling Discussion


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54 minutes ago, Pete said:

Ooooooof. After all the horrific shit Jake's put himself into (and put into himself) over the years, it figures he'd get COVID through what seems like zero fault of his own.

Incredible seeing what Diamond Dallas Page has done for Jake Roberts and Scott Hall. DDP is a saint. Get well soon, Jake.

Edited by The Natural
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It was a lot easier to not have everybody on TV every week when the TV was taped 4 weeks at a time and the low/mid card people could work some squash matches on B shows or work house shows in a small market.

The closest 80s wrestling came to getting people on TV every week might have been the JCP style of shows where they managed to have 20 different studio promos in 2 hours without screwing up the tempo of the show.

Somehow the late 90s era of “everybody has a storyline” led to more backstage stuff than interviews in front of live crowds stuff.

Now, it might be unfair to phrase it this way, this era is more of a “match worked through a commercial break for no necessary reason” era. Picture in Picture is nice to verify that they’re not working a side headlock for 2 minutes every break but what’s the ratio of “matches that need to go long” to “matches that really don’t need to last through an entire commercial break”?

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21 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

It was a lot easier to not have everybody on TV every week when the TV was taped 4 weeks at a time and the low/mid card people could work some squash matches on B shows or work house shows in a small market.

The closest 80s wrestling came to getting people on TV every week might have been the JCP style of shows where they managed to have 20 different studio promos in 2 hours without screwing up the tempo of the show.

Somehow the late 90s era of “everybody has a storyline” led to more backstage stuff than interviews in front of live crowds stuff.

Now, it might be unfair to phrase it this way, this era is more of a “match worked through a commercial break for no necessary reason” era. Picture in Picture is nice to verify that they’re not working a side headlock for 2 minutes every break but what’s the ratio of “matches that need to go long” to “matches that really don’t need to last through an entire commercial break”?

I assume Picture in Picture is more about being DVR-proof as a pitch to advertisers than it is about the live crowd, especially since AEW has Sammy give cue card promos during PiP breaks occasionally (which is very clever).

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17 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

This is just my observation, but he appeared to be whacked out of his mind, and nobody wanted to deal with him.

His knees were also trash. So that didn't help either.

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11 minutes ago, JLowe said:

I assume Picture in Picture is more about being DVR-proof as a pitch to advertisers than it is about the live crowd, especially since AEW has Sammy give cue card promos during PiP breaks occasionally (which is very clever).

i'll second this, and also mention that matches that last through the commercial break (P-i-P style) do really well at retaining the viewing audience. Personally, it drives me crazy, and i always try to watch the international broadcast if possible, but numbers are numbers. 

re: Jake Roberts, when was he last on TV? he mentions 3 months in his tweet, but it seems hella longer than that. I wish him a speedy recovery, but since he already had to use oxygen on occasion, i hope he got the vaccine to protect himself.

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21 hours ago, just drew said:

Careful. You might get called sexist for pointing out that working Charlotte is detrimental to one's WWE career...

I know this is supposed to be a dig at Charlotte, but this has been WWE's model for 40 years: make a few big stars, build up lesser stars and feed them to the Cenas. Rocks, and Charlottes of the company.  I can think of a quite a few people who got hotshotted into feuds with main eventers and never recovered their heat?  Did the Cena feud do a lot for Rusev's career?  

If we're going to start making lists of WWE stars who are "detrimental to one's WWE career", the first name on my list is going to be the Undertaker.  List of guys UT put over is a lot smaller compared to the list of guys who got fed to Undertaker and never recovered.  They booked UT like that even when he was well past his prime.  I used to dread seeing him on SD in the late 2000's.  The model was basically show up for a few months->get title->don't put anyone over->Take six months off.  Rinse and repeat.

It's the way WWE does business.  Let's not pretend working Charlotte is somehow worse for the your career than being hotshotted into a feud with Cena, Triple H, Hogan. Roman. Austin, Rock, etc.

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1 hour ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

This is just my observation, but he appeared to be whacked out of his mind, and nobody wanted to deal with him.

Yeah, but you can say that about a pretty high number of workers in the 80s lol #cocaine ?

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6 hours ago, paintedbynumbers said:

I never called Bayley a poor worker. Can you read?

 

Not just Pittsburgh but PA, NY, OH, and Canada.  

You are everything wrong with the world right now. People like you and your buddies on this forum who can't debate or let anyone have an opinion different than yours.  You think your opinion is the only one that counts and that anything different is "weird"  

Remember when people could debate without being assholes?  Again, this is why people lurk here without posting.  This is why people call wrestling fans toxic.  Because nobody can have a fucking opinion without being bullied about it.

Drew, I am glad you aren't involved in the scene. You wouldn't make it.

So just for the sake of clarity... this isn't a difference of opinion. I went through that nxt thread and it's horrendous. Far worse than I remembered. Someone says the name Britt Baker and you immediately jump to her fucking Labar. How is that an opinion? It's your opinion she slept with Labar to get into the business? Also explain how that works anyway. This isn't 1972. You don't need anyone to "get you into" the business. She just had to show up at IWC's training center and agree to pay the fee and train. Fuck all had to do with if she did or didn't sleep with a guy involved in the show at the time.

No matter what role you play in the business it's you that's toxic. Britt fucked so and so. Sammy & AEW need to apologize to me. Carmela & Graves need to come clean to me. You're a whole ass narcissist and you don't see it. The world, the wrestling business, and this board don't revolve around you. THAT'S what's wrong with the world right now. People like you think your "opinions" are as valid as anyone else's when what you're saying isn't an opinion at all, it's out and out slander. Stop digging any deeper.

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51 minutes ago, AxB said:

Wasn't Jake ringside for the match where Archer lost the IWGP US title? I think that was about 3 months ago.

Apparently the last time Jake was on TV was the match where Archer got hurt (the Eliminator match against Kingston)

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35 minutes ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

I know this is supposed to be a dig at Charlotte, but this has been WWE's model for 40 years: make a few big stars, build up lesser stars and feed them to the Cenas. Rocks, and Charlottes of the company.  I can think of a quite a few people who got hotshotted into feuds with main eventers and never recovered their heat?  Did the Cena feud do a lot for Rusev's career?  

If we're going to start making lists of WWE stars who are "detrimental to one's WWE career", the first name on my list is going to be the Undertaker.  List of guys UT put over is a lot smaller compared to the list of guys who got fed to Undertaker and never recovered.  They booked UT like that even when he was well past his prime.  I used to dread seeing him on SD in the late 2000's.  The model was basically show up for a few months->get title->don't put anyone over->Take six months off.  Rinse and repeat.

It's the way WWE does business.  Let's not pretend working Charlotte is somehow worse for the your career than being hotshotted into a feud with Cena, Triple H, Hogan. Roman. Austin, Rock, etc.

The Rock is probably the most generous main eventer ever, so I wouldn't put him in your list. Cena toward the end of his career took a shocking amount of losses as well.

I also think it's worth considering that people tended to come out worse after a feud with Triple H than they did with The Undertaker. Other than Batista and maaaaaaaaybe Danielson, did anyone else come out of a feud with HHH actually looking better than they did going into it? Even The Undertaker could put a guy over while beating him if he wanted (see: Jeff Hardy). HHH had no ability to do that.

(I should have started this post by saying that you're not exactly wrong, though. I am not totally disagreeing! But I think there are degrees. It seems like Charlotte guzzles opponents at a Hulk Hogan-like level without being Hulk Hogan.)

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28 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Apparently the last time Jake was on TV was the match where Archer got hurt (the Eliminator match against Kingston)

I thought so too but I just rewatched it and he wasn't there.  I feel like he showed up once a week or two before that, though.

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28 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

It's your opinion she slept with Labar to get into the business? Also explain how that works anyway.

Come on, you've been in the business long enough to know that the hard and fast rule for some people is "if a woman exists in the business, she must be a rat".

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Jake returned at the Rochester show I went to September 29th as part of the Dark: Elevation tapings. That's the last time I can recall seeing him. He must have only been around for a cup of coffee after that. I actually remember Jake getting physical in one of those matches during that brief stint too.

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14 minutes ago, Stefanie the Human said:

Come on, you've been in the business long enough to know that the hard and fast rule for some people is "if a woman exists in the business, she must be a rat".

Yeah sadly that holds up. It's not everyone. And it's getting better as the older gen phases out. But it's a bummer how many people you come across that actually talk and think like that.

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45 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

So just for the sake of clarity... this isn't a difference of opinion. I went through that nxt thread and it's horrendous. Far worse than I remembered. Someone says the name Britt Baker and you immediately jump to her fucking Labar. How is that an opinion? It's your opinion she slept with Labar to get into the business? Also explain how that works anyway. This isn't 1972. You don't need anyone to "get you into" the business. She just had to show up at IWC's training center and agree to pay the fee and train. Fuck all had to do with if she did or didn't sleep with a guy involved in the show at the time.

No matter what role you play in the business it's you that's toxic. Britt fucked so and so. Sammy & AEW need to apologize to me. Carmela & Graves need to come clean to me. You're a whole ass narcissist and you don't see it. The world, the wrestling business, and this board don't revolve around you. THAT'S what's wrong with the world right now. People like you think your "opinions" are as valid as anyone else's when what you're saying isn't an opinion at all, it's out and out slander. Stop digging any deeper.

I'm surprised that a poster is getting into Sleaze Thread level garbage in here without getting a visit from the Patron Saint of Outlaw Country, Johnny Cash.

Seems like jealousy that people are being successful as wrestlers so it's time to tear them down or whatever. 

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38 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

The Rock is probably the most generous main eventer ever, so I wouldn't put him in your list. 

Totally agree with this, but the Billy Gunn thing did happen.

And from The Rock's perspective, I totally understand why he was frustrated with having to work with him. I was listening to Summerslam 1999 STW episode a few weeks back, and I totally didn't know Billy had asthma. Doing a cursory Google search shows he's still dealing with it even though he (Billy) feels like he has it under control. So not only does Rock feel like he has to elevate someone who likely isn't ready, he's having to wrestle someone who probably should be in tag or multi man matches because his wind isn't there to work long main event type matches. There is being generous, but you can also be TOO generous. 

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4 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Totally agree with this, but the Billy Gunn thing did happen.

And from The Rock's perspective, I totally understand why he was frustrated with having to work with him. I was listening to Summerslam 1999 STW episode a few weeks back, and I totally didn't know Billy had asthma. Doing a cursory Google search shows he's still dealing with it even though he (Billy) feels like he has it under control. So not only does Rock feel like he has to elevate someone who likely isn't ready, he's having to wrestle someone who probably should be in tag or multi man matches because his wind isn't there to work long main event type matches. There is being generous, but you can also be TOO generous. 

I almost mentioned the death of Billy Gunn, but that's generally an anomaly in The Rock's career. 

Also, Billy Gunn was definitely a tag specialist and The Rock's destroying him on the mic was one of the funniest things in wrestling ever, so I am inconsistent in giving it a pass.

Edited by SirSmellingtonofCascadia
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When Rock was first in Hollywood and part-timing in WWE, he'd come back to have these little two week feuds with midcarders, do everything he could to get them over, and then go off to do another movie. And as soon as he was gone, Eugene or Hurricane Helms or whoever would be Jobbing to HHH in under a minute.

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14 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I almost mentioned the death of Billy Gunn, but that's generally an anomaly in The Rock's career. 

Also, Billy Gunn was definitely a tag specialist and The Rock's destroying him on the mic was one of the funniest things in wrestling ever, so I am inconsistent in giving it a pass.

I give that a pass just like I give Austin a pass for the Jarrett stuff*. I mean you got a lot of stuff where Austin and Rock were working with random folks but the focus was always them against someone who was super credible. Billy wasn't positioned in a way to be taken serious before he got his push. Jeff Jarrett came back to WWF after switching back and forth after his 1 years deals had expired with WCW and/or WWF, and he's cutting these long parable like quasi shoot rants that the crowd doesn't care about. That was just bad creative because if you're aren't over, the last thing that will hold an audience's attention is cutting these never-ending promos. Why would anyone in the main event want to work with him? They played back some of those promos on the My World podcast and them shits went on FOREVER.

*ok maybe not so much the outside stuff w/ possibly a misunderstanding of what Jeff said to Steve early in his career and also Jeff working with Debra. That may be ego at play and Austin's holding silly grudges there.

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Quick follow up regarding Toni Storm

On this morning's radio show - Meltzer confirmed that Storm basically woke up and decided to quit the company.

They released her but no one is sure of the terms yet. Dave seemed to imply that there was some sort of "No AEW" agreement but Japan would be fine. Either way - she would have a 90 day no compete.

The only reason so far that seems to have been said is "burn out"

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1 hour ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I'm surprised that a poster is getting into Sleaze Thread level garbage in here without getting a visit from the Patron Saint of Outlaw Country, Johnny Cash.

Seems like jealousy that people are being successful as wrestlers so it's time to tear them down or whatever. 

OK Dick Tracy, 

Jealousy you say? Of Brit? Nope. Like I said, she changed and we are cool now.  Name another worker I talked shit about?  Tay and Sammy? Nope, not jealous of them either.  Hell I've praised people on here for years. Wardlow, Facade, Shima, Lee Moriarty, Jack Pollock, Gargano,  RSP, Sam Adonis,  I can go on and on. 

Why would I praise all of the guys and be jealous of Brit? 

You guys won't let this shit drop. It's funny really. 

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1 minute ago, paintedbynumbers said:

OK Dick Tracy, 

Jealousy you say? Of Brit? Nope. Like I said, she changed and we are cool now.  Name another worker I talked shit about?  Tay and Sammy? Nope, not jealous of them either.  Hell I've praised people on here for years. Wardlow, Facade, Shima, Lee Moriarty, Jack Pollock, Gargano,  RSP, Sam Adonis,  I can go on and on. 

Why would I praise all of the guys and be jealous of Brit? 

You guys won't let this shit drop. It's funny really. 

Shut the fuck up already, no one cares. You could always let the shit drop, but you just have to keep responding. Stop responding, then. Clearly, no one gives a fuck about you, your POV, or your weirdo obsessions with certain workers who have clearly heated up more than you have. 

If it's so funny, just laugh to yourself and move on, goddam. 

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