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December 2021 Wrestling Discussion


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17 hours ago, sabremike said:

Spike had one of the most underrated matches ever with Mike Awesome at GAC 2000. My mom who couldn't care less about wrestling got into it rooting for Spike and got upset when he lost. Guess what I'm saying is please don't shit on Spike.

I wasn't really shitting on Spike, just more meant that match shouldn't have been a main event. We were disappointed that Shane Douglas, Taz and a few others weren't on the show. I'll say this, I think RVD and Spike must've known the crowd was bored as hell and antsy after the Corino/Dreamer fiasco so they went out there and worked really hard. RVD definitely wasn't half assing it as I remember he did a bunch of dives and interacted a lot with the crowd to get everyone to wake up and Spike bumped around a lot. They could've phoned it in but they worked really hard to get the crowd back and send us home happy after the bullshit we had to sit through beforehand. I remember a bunch of the guys like Spike, Ballz Mahoney, Hack Myers and a couple of others came out to the lobby at the end of the show to shoot the shit with the fans, sign programs and get a few pics with everyone. No charge or anything. Every time I went to a show, most of the talent were really fan friendly.

Edited by cwoy2j
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Worst match I've ever seen was probably at a mid-2000's indie show in PA or WV.  Forget which.  Show had two people on the card which I had sorta heard of: Doink the Clown and "Christophe Daniels."  Christohphe appeared on a poster and sorta looked like Christopher Daniels - if you pixelated the photo and squinted just right.   Naturally, they both no-showed.

Undercard was a lot of bad regional indie wrestling by dudes in kickpads and baggy pleather pants.  Sometimes both at the same time.  Main event was where the show went from laughably bad to just... bad.  Main event matches a really skinny guy versus a stocky pudgy guy (imagine Taz with a gut and not much muscle).  Naturally, the anorexic-looking guy was working a faux MMA gimmick and the pudgy guy was a high-flier.

Match was atrocious.  Both guys blew up fast, there were a lot of botched spots, bad selling, dudes not knowing how to bump and landing badly on routine spots.  At one point, the flippy guy rushed the skinny guy.  Skinny guy attempted something I think was supposed to be a hip toss over the top rope, but he barely brushed the other guy so it looked more like his opponent decided to fling himself over the top rope and crash to the floor for no particular reason.  Another spot had the skinny guy whiffing badly on a missed dropkick and saying "sell it" too loudly afterwards, at which point his portly opponent grabbed his throat (?), started selling like Fred Sanford having a heart attack (look it up), and threw himself backwards.  The spot reminded me a bit of the infamous gif where Mark Henry gives Batista a little shove and Big Dave sells it like a shotgun blast to the face and goes tumbling end over end to the other side of the ring.

Anyway, the finish.  I think the finish was supposed to the pudgy guy missing a moonsault with the guy on the mat just barely rolling out of the way, then rolling right back to make the cover.  What actually happened was the pudgy wrestler climbed the turnbuckle really slowly and the other guy rolled out of the way way  too soon.  Wrestler A gets to the top of the turnbuckle, looks over to see his opponent rolling to the ropes, freezes for a sec, then shrugs and moonsaults to the now-empty center of the ring, splatting himself.  

Wrestler B (Skinny) tries to roll back over and make the cover, but for some odd reason he rolled himself under the bottom rope and was precariously clinging to the edge of the mat.  When he tried to roll back in the ring, he got tangled in the bottom rope and fell off the mat.  I kinda remember him clinging the the edge of the mat like a spider before slowly falling off.  Then he stood up and gave the crowd a little "I meant to do that" gesture before climbing back in and mercifully making the pin.

The hilarity (?) didn't end there.  The pudgy guy's manager appeared from somewhere - he wasn't at ringside during the match - to argue with the ref that his man had kicked out before 3.  I don't remember seeing anything resembling a kick-out but whatever.  The manager then appealed to the crowd and tried to get a "restart the match" chant going only to be met by the deafening sound of.... crickets.  After a couple secs of awkward silence, the crowd began to shuffle out even though the post-match angle was going on.

As the wrestlers were walking out of the ring, we could clearly hear the skinny guy telling the other guy "nothing you could do.  I rolled too soon."  Apparently, improvising and adjusting on the fly were going to be taught in a later class?

One of the guys I was with noticed someone who appeared to be with the event crew filming the matches, but when we asked him about it, he claimed he hadn't filmed anything.

I'm sort of annoyed I remember this show so well, but have mostly forgotten most of the good wrestling I've seen over the years.

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22 hours ago, cwoy2j said:

What's the worst match you've ever seen live? 

I didn't think they were terrible while they were happening, but you may all pity me for watching Sabu-Sandman at November to Remember 97 and Sid-Nightstalker at the Clash in Jacksonville.

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I saw a pretty rough match at my high school involving Tom Brandi as The Patriot against a heel tastefully named "Chemical Ali" but Honky Tonk Man blew them away later in the night by singing his ring music *twice* and not taking a single bump. I wish I could remember who he wrestled - it may have been Brandi doing double duty as Sal Sincere but I cannot find any record of this show happening except a dead Torch link, which may be for the best.

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On 12/23/2021 at 9:24 PM, Octopus said:

What’s the greatest match you’ve seen live?

 

Kenny and Ibushi vs Naito and Hiromu CEOxNJPW.  This card in general (I went to see Liger and Omega) got me back into fighting games and pro wrestling, and led to some life changes.

 

Greatest singles match is Juice Robinson vs Trent Beretta.

 

Worst match involved Jake Hager.  That's all I remember about it.

 

 

Edited by alstein
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While this match that I saw in person probably wasn’t long enough to be considered bad, it has an amazingly convoluted finish and didn’t lead to anything aside from making people realize that Saturn was way better than Glacier

things start to deteriorate at the 3 minute mark.

Edited by Cobra Commander
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20 minutes ago, Gorman said:

I didn't think they were terrible while they were happening, but you may all pity me for watching Sabu-Sandman at November to Remember 97 and Sid-Nightstalker at the Clash in Jacksonville.

Sabu vs. The Sandman at November 2 Remember 1997 is so fucking bad. One of the worst wrestling matches ever.

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1 hour ago, Mark said:

 Another spot had the skinny guy whiffing badly on a missed dropkick and saying "sell it" too loudly afterwards, at which point his portly opponent grabbed his throat (?), started selling like Fred Sanford having a heart attack (look it up), and threw himself backwards.  

Look at it this way: Considering that Redd Foxx died after having a heart attack on-set because people thought that he was just doing his "comin' to join you, Elizabeth" routine, maybe selling like Fred Sanford is actually good selling.

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51 minutes ago, Gorman said:

I didn't think they were terrible while they were happening, but you may all pity me for watching Sabu-Sandman at November to Remember 97 and Sid-Nightstalker at the Clash in Jacksonville.

Speaking of that Sid vs Bryan Clarke match, if they would have had a rematch somewhere around '95 to '98, it would have had a potential to be a half decent big man match.

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36 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Sabu vs. The Sandman at November 2 Remember 1997 is so fucking bad. One of the worst wrestling matches ever.

The backstory on that is that someone was passing out acid backstage and Sandman enthusiastically took part in the festivities. In the middle of the match he was hallucinating that Sabu was a giant lizard and was actually going "Here lizard lizard". 

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20 hours ago, Zimbra said:

I was looking through house show results and I apparently saw a Randy Savage/Giant Gonzalez match that I have thankfully purged from my memory completely.

 

15 hours ago, Phantom Lord said:

I had no idea this match ever happened. It had to basically be the same match as Randy/Andre from a few years earlier. Lots of nerve holds the giant and double axe handles from Savage.

 

8 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

That can’t be that bad, can it? I remember liking those matches, and I also enjoyed it when it was Savage Vs. The Giant.

apparently a Savage/Gonzalez match was taped, potentially for a Coliseum Video. I can't see how/where this was actually released, but here you all go (it's only about 5 minutes):

 

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History of WWE lists that Savage/Giant Gonzalez match as having aired on "WWF on TSN" on September 26th, 1993. It happened on September 1st, 1993 in Saginaw, Michigan.

The 3 other matches from 1993 listed as just "WWF on TSN" matches

  • Bob Backlund vs Tim Patterson (2/14/93, taped 1/25/93)
  • Bob Backlund vs Mike Starr (2/21/93, taped 1/26/93)
  • Papa Shango vs Mike Davis (8/8/93, taped 5/24/93)

The year before, there was a Crush vs Rick Martel match that was aired on WWF on TSN and was also on two Coliseum tapes.

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I presume the haters will not accept the pandemic as a partial reason for the poor attendance. 

I barely wanted to go to the movies this week in a theater with less than 10 people. I can't imagine going to a major league sporting event right now.

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I honestly think we’re overdoing the reaction to the Omnicron. It’s been a few weeks. People have gotten it fast, but hospital rates aren’t going up. It’s basically like getting a cold. Strangely I haven’t gotten a cold this year. That might be thanks to the vaccine, but still shocked considering I use public restrooms almost everyday.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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33 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I presume the haters will not accept the pandemic as a partial reason for the poor attendance. 

I barely wanted to go to the movies this week in a theater with less than 10 people. I can't imagine going to a major league sporting event right now.

It could be an excuse....but MSG was sold out for the Knicks game yesterday. So people will definitely come out to see something they want to see.

But if the poor ticket sales are because WWE fans are Covid woke, good for them.

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1 minute ago, Infinit said:

It could be an excuse....but MSG was sold out for the Knicks game yesterday. So people will definitely come out to see something they want to see.

But if the poor ticket sales are because WWE fans are Covid woke, good for them.

People are "outside" now so it's gonna be hard to reverse course unless there are new state or federal rules. AFAIK their NY numbers weren't that hot before shit got worse.

Re: Savage/Gonzalez

Unless we're talking Steiners vs. Bret and Owen or some of the random matches that got recycled on international versions, Coliseum video releases got real dire in the early 90s if we're being honest. However, it gave us some real unique matchups though. For example, there is a five minute heel Shawn Michaels vs. heel Skinner match taped in Green Bay for Bashed in the USA where SKINNER takes 90% of the match. It is strange to say the least. Not a bad match, but strange. 

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1 minute ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Unless we're talking Steiners vs. Bret and Owen or some of the random matches that got recycled on international versions, Coliseum video releases got real dire in the early 90s if we're being honest.

I don’t know, but you gotta threaten me at gun point to watch Coliseum videos outside of the skits. That includes the 80’s.

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