December 2021 Wrestling Discussion

[Gorman]

22 hours ago, cwoy2j said:

What's the worst match you've ever seen live? 

I didn't think they were terrible while they were happening, but you may all pity me for watching Sabu-Sandman at November to Remember 97 and Sid-Nightstalker at the Clash in Jacksonville.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

I saw a pretty rough match at my high school involving Tom Brandi as The Patriot against a heel tastefully named "Chemical Ali" but Honky Tonk Man blew them away later in the night by singing his ring music *twice* and not taking a single bump. I wish I could remember who he wrestled - it may have been Brandi doing double duty as Sal Sincere but I cannot find any record of this show happening except a dead Torch link, which may be for the best.

[Jenalysis]

On 12/23/2021 at 9:24 PM, Octopus said:

What’s the greatest match you’ve seen live?

 

Kenny and Ibushi vs Naito and Hiromu CEOxNJPW.  This card in general (I went to see Liger and Omega) got me back into fighting games and pro wrestling, and led to some life changes.

 

Greatest singles match is Juice Robinson vs Trent Beretta.

 

Worst match involved Jake Hager.  That's all I remember about it.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2021 by alstein

[Cobra Commander]

While this match that I saw in person probably wasn’t long enough to be considered bad, it has an amazingly convoluted finish and didn’t lead to anything aside from making people realize that Saturn was way better than Glacier

things start to deteriorate at the 3 minute mark.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Cobra Commander

[The Natural]

20 minutes ago, Gorman said:

I didn't think they were terrible while they were happening, but you may all pity me for watching Sabu-Sandman at November to Remember 97 and Sid-Nightstalker at the Clash in Jacksonville.

Sabu vs. The Sandman at November 2 Remember 1997 is so fucking bad. One of the worst wrestling matches ever.

[SirSmUgly]

1 hour ago, Mark said:

 Another spot had the skinny guy whiffing badly on a missed dropkick and saying "sell it" too loudly afterwards, at which point his portly opponent grabbed his throat (?), started selling like Fred Sanford having a heart attack (look it up), and threw himself backwards.  

Look at it this way: Considering that Redd Foxx died after having a heart attack on-set because people thought that he was just doing his "comin' to join you, Elizabeth" routine, maybe selling like Fred Sanford is actually good selling.

[Cobra Commander]

I’d guess that the idea of selling the Heart Punch by doing the Fred Sanford shtick would be discouraged.

[Shartnado]

51 minutes ago, Gorman said:

I didn't think they were terrible while they were happening, but you may all pity me for watching Sabu-Sandman at November to Remember 97 and Sid-Nightstalker at the Clash in Jacksonville.

Speaking of that Sid vs Bryan Clarke match, if they would have had a rematch somewhere around '95 to '98, it would have had a potential to be a half decent big man match.

[sabremike]

36 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Sabu vs. The Sandman at November 2 Remember 1997 is so fucking bad. One of the worst wrestling matches ever.

The backstory on that is that someone was passing out acid backstage and Sandman enthusiastically took part in the festivities. In the middle of the match he was hallucinating that Sabu was a giant lizard and was actually going "Here lizard lizard". 

[twiztor]

20 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

….yeah, I was there for Rosie vs. Trump

you win. i haven't watched a moment of WWE tv since this match aired.

[twiztor]

20 hours ago, Zimbra said:

I was looking through house show results and I apparently saw a Randy Savage/Giant Gonzalez match that I have thankfully purged from my memory completely.

 

15 hours ago, Phantom Lord said:

I had no idea this match ever happened. It had to basically be the same match as Randy/Andre from a few years earlier. Lots of nerve holds the giant and double axe handles from Savage.

 

8 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

That can’t be that bad, can it? I remember liking those matches, and I also enjoyed it when it was Savage Vs. The Giant.

apparently a Savage/Gonzalez match was taped, potentially for a Coliseum Video. I can't see how/where this was actually released, but here you all go (it's only about 5 minutes):

 

[Cobra Commander]

History of WWE lists that Savage/Giant Gonzalez match as having aired on "WWF on TSN" on September 26th, 1993. It happened on September 1st, 1993 in Saginaw, Michigan.

The 3 other matches from 1993 listed as just "WWF on TSN" matches

• Bob Backlund vs Tim Patterson (2/14/93, taped 1/25/93)
• Bob Backlund vs Mike Starr (2/21/93, taped 1/26/93)
• Papa Shango vs Mike Davis (8/8/93, taped 5/24/93)

The year before, there was a Crush vs Rick Martel match that was aired on WWF on TSN and was also on two Coliseum tapes.

[SirSmUgly]

Yo, Savage killing off Gonzalez was actually pretty great!

[Infinit]

 

Ticket sales not going very well for tonight's WWE show at MSG

[odessasteps]

I presume the haters will not accept the pandemic as a partial reason for the poor attendance. 

I barely wanted to go to the movies this week in a theater with less than 10 people. I can't imagine going to a major league sporting event right now.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

I honestly think we’re overdoing the reaction to the Omnicron. It’s been a few weeks. People have gotten it fast, but hospital rates aren’t going up. It’s basically like getting a cold. Strangely I haven’t gotten a cold this year. That might be thanks to the vaccine, but still shocked considering I use public restrooms almost everyday.

Edited December 26, 2021 by LoneWolf&Subs

[Infinit]

33 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I presume the haters will not accept the pandemic as a partial reason for the poor attendance. 

I barely wanted to go to the movies this week in a theater with less than 10 people. I can't imagine going to a major league sporting event right now.

It could be an excuse....but MSG was sold out for the Knicks game yesterday. So people will definitely come out to see something they want to see.

But if the poor ticket sales are because WWE fans are Covid woke, good for them.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, Infinit said:

It could be an excuse....but MSG was sold out for the Knicks game yesterday. So people will definitely come out to see something they want to see.

But if the poor ticket sales are because WWE fans are Covid woke, good for them.

People are "outside" now so it's gonna be hard to reverse course unless there are new state or federal rules. AFAIK their NY numbers weren't that hot before shit got worse.

Re: Savage/Gonzalez

Unless we're talking Steiners vs. Bret and Owen or some of the random matches that got recycled on international versions, Coliseum video releases got real dire in the early 90s if we're being honest. However, it gave us some real unique matchups though. For example, there is a five minute heel Shawn Michaels vs. heel Skinner match taped in Green Bay for Bashed in the USA where SKINNER takes 90% of the match. It is strange to say the least. Not a bad match, but strange. 

[LoneWolf&Subs]

I think wrestling just isn’t very popular right now. We’re in mid-90’s of the WWF’s lack of popularity in its “Home” arena.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

1 minute ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Unless we're talking Steiners vs. Bret and Owen or some of the random matches that got recycled on international versions, Coliseum video releases got real dire in the early 90s if we're being honest.

I don’t know, but you gotta threaten me at gun point to watch Coliseum videos outside of the skits. That includes the 80’s.

[odessasteps]

10 minutes ago, Infinit said:

It could be an excuse....but MSG was sold out for the Knicks game yesterday. So people will definitely come out to see something they want to see.

But if the poor ticket sales are because WWE fans are Covid woke, good for them.

I think its part of the equation. But their crappy product is likely the greater percentage. 

[SirSmUgly]

46 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I presume the haters will not accept the pandemic as a partial reason for the poor attendance. 

I barely wanted to go to the movies this week in a theater with less than 10 people. I can't imagine going to a major league sporting event right now.

Speaking of the movies, Spider-Man: NWH did like half a billy without the Chinese box office, I believe, and not on HBO MAX or anything.

I presume that "the haters" aren't aimlessly hating.

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

I don’t know, but you gotta threaten me at gun point to watch Coliseum videos outside of the skits. That includes the 80’s.

You're totally right BUT NOSTALGIA~!

However, if you NEED to go to sleep, watch a Coliseum video release from 1987 where it's like the Killer Bees vs. The Conquistadors or directionless, face Don Muraco vs. Iron Mike Sharpe. Out like a light.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

I watched the one that had the big pre-Survivor Series elimination match. That was great. But good Lord the rest of that tape is awful. I didn’t want to take a gamble, and watch another just to see if it had a hidden gem.

It truly is a nostalgic thing. When you’re a kid renting these things, and you’re used to watching syndicated shows, this is the the only way to watch a bunch of “big matches”. But looking back you realize the lack of effort, the fact that they taped these on the back end of tapings, and the absolutely garbage endings. We were fooled. 

Edited December 26, 2021 by LoneWolf&Subs

[cwoy2j]

Best match I've seen is probably Punk/Jericho from WM 28 or Austin/Undertaker from IYH: Cold Day in Hell. I went to a lot of JCP/WCW house shows as a little kid in the mid-late 80s/early 90s but I didn't really appreciate match quality much then. I do remember seeing a pretty insane Cactus Jack/Abdullah the Butcher street fight in 91 or 92 when I was like 12. Abby hiptossed Cactus through the wooden barricades right next to where I was sitting and Cactus took a flat back right onto the concrete. Sounded like if you were to just drop a steak from the top of a staircase onto a concrete floor. Just a gross splat. Probably about 1500 people in the building that night. The best part is that this one redneck guy had been heckling the wrestlers all night and talking shit at them. He smacked Abby on the back when they were near us and Abby kinda stood up and started towards him while kinda making his weird Abdullah noises and faces. The dude backed up and went ass over tea kettle onto the floor when he tripped over a chair. The whole section clowned him for the rest of the night.

Edited December 26, 2021 by cwoy2j