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December 2021 Wrestling Discussion


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10 hours ago, Morganti said:

A random post about Mick Foley reminded me of a point of comparison i wanted to make about said Mick Foley being the absolute best at getting wwf(e) pretty boys into mother fucking men.  Hbk, orton, edge, hhh, and the rock along with to a lesser extent Austin and taker.  He got all those dudes to the next level and that's honestly what modern wwe is missing.  There isn't anyone like him to play true gatekeeper.

Foley was the all time best at making someone look like a killer, but his secret was just doing absolutely insane self-destructive bumps no one else would do. Not just the big spectacle stuff like going off the cell, but the more "mundane" things like taking chair shots to the head, doing back bumps off the apron on to the unpadded floor, ramming his knees into the steps, letting guys potato him constantly (that Vader match ?), etc. Not to say he wasn't an all-time talent, since knowing how to deploy those bumps effectively takes skill, and his promo ability was top-notch for generating interest in the matches, but the main thing was the willingness to visibly and spectacularly destroy his body for the business.

There's no one like him today for a lot or reasons. No blood, no one getting to hone their own character as much, but also a big part is probably guys looking at how Foley looks now and going "uh, no thanks." Ambrose was the closest they got.

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3 minutes ago, Jiji said:

Ah fuck. I can't believe he's done this. 

I'd like to see him get go all out for one last run in AEW too, but I can understand his choice. Their roster is way more loaded than WWE as is, and one would assume KOR and Keith Lee are on the horizon too. Good chance he just gets lost in the shuffle there. WWE is safe money where he'll be an upper midcarder for life, possibly with a "thank you" title run at some point.

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33 minutes ago, ChesterCopperpot said:

KO has re-signed with WWE per SRS 

I'm sure he's doing what he thinks is best for him and his family,  but I can't understand why he thinks this is best for his career. I think he's hit his WWE ceiling,  but I think that's his AEW floor.  I don't know if there is a more perfect signing for AEW. He's kind of the last superstar from the Indy boom(I kind of feel like Riddle and Keith Lee are from a different,  post boom era) . He should be in the same promotion as Danielson,  Punk,  the Young Bucks,  etc.  AEW is kind of the Indy wrestling PhD program,  and he decided he's good with his masters.  AEW should offer him and Sami the world,  they kind of feel like the pieces you need to complete the puzzle. 

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59 minutes ago, ChesterCopperpot said:

KO has re-signed with WWE per SRS 

 

25 minutes ago, Jiji said:

Ah fuck. I can't believe he's done this. 

 

11 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I'm sure he's doing what he thinks is best for him and his family,  but I can't understand why he thinks this is best for his career. I think he's hit his WWE ceiling,  but I think that's his AEW floor.  I don't know if there is a more perfect signing for AEW. He's kind of the last superstar from the Indy boom(I kind of feel like Riddle and Keith Lee are from a different,  post boom era) . He should be in the same promotion as Danielson,  Punk,  the Young Bucks,  etc.  AEW is kind of the Indy wrestling PhD program,  and he decided he's good with his masters.  AEW should offer him and Sami the world,  they kind of feel like the pieces you need to complete the puzzle. 

Kevin Owens staying surprises me. I was hoping Cesaro would go to AEW but he also stuck with WWE.

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1 minute ago, The Natural said:

 

 

Kevin Owens staying surprises me. I was hoping Cesaro would go to AEW but he also stuck with WWE.

Watching AEW, and how they allow their wrestlers to work matches,  not just put together their signature spots, make me think so the guys who built their reputations guys their in ring would chose AEW over WWE. It just seems like it would be a much more rewarding promotion to work for when the work is the focus. I'd be miserable if I was Cesaro or Kevin Owens, but they get to choose what they want not me. 

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Owens has always been first and foremost about making as much money as possible for his family.  We might want to think match quality is that important to everyone, but in the end the guy wants to provide for his family and WWE probably offered him a deal too good to not take.

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I would be surprised if aew couldn't offer similar money and there's little threat of a surprise release too. 

I'll be here in the corner just fantasy booking a Mt Rushmore run in AEW. ?

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1 hour ago, ChesterCopperpot said:

KO has re-signed with WWE per SRS 

This oddly disappoints me though doesn't surprise me. I don't watch AEW and like Owens, but he just feels so stale to me right now that I think he would be better off anywhere else but WWE at the moment. He has already held most if, not all of the belts he could and done good-great work in NXT and on the main roster. It just doesn't feel like he has anything left to do in WWE.

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1 minute ago, Jiji said:

I would be surprised if aew couldn't offer similar money and there's little threat of a surprise release too. 

Yes,  but I don't imagine he's in danger of a surprise release. We aren't talking about him like we are,  because he's not an extremely valuable member of the roster. We also don't know what was offered by each side. We also take for granted that he might love his job with WWE. We are all pretty jaded about the product,  but we have no clue about his opinions. I once heard Rey Mysterio talk about how much better if a wrestler he was once he started working for WWE. I think the style is too paint by numbers and doesn't allow for enough creativity. He seemed to think that the creativity was in showing down and finding a place to make his spots as meaningful as possible. He couldn't do all the crazy high flying stuff that he could do when he was younger,  but he could do one or two spots that made maximum impact. Maybe Owens likes the style,  likes his coworkers,  and is living his dream... on top of getting the bag. 

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28 minutes ago, Infinit said:

I really hope that all this AEW and Mount Rushmore reunion talk made WWE wildly overpay.

I would bet money that they did, and then I would bet more money that in due time KO will be released for "budget reasons." He might as well get the most out of them now while he can.

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Another thing is KO is already 37 and may not feel like pushing himself to the lengths he would have to in order to succeed in AEW. Not everyone is Bryan Danielson who will keep wrestling at the highest level he can until his body crumbles to dust because it's what he loves to do.

Also, from AEW's perspective, while KO would've been a good get in the short term, they clearly already have their future pieces in place. They have to walk the line of being good wrestling but not drifting into nostalgia act territory but with ROH guys from the mid 2000s instead of WWE guys from the mid 2000s. Guys like Adam Cole, and hopefully Keith Lee soon, who are still in their primes should be higher priority targets.

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1 hour ago, nofuture said:

Owens has always been first and foremost about making as much money as possible for his family.  We might want to think match quality is that important to everyone, but in the end the guy wants to provide for his family and WWE probably offered him a deal too good to not take.

This. 

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Meltzer said earlier this week (or maybe it was last week) that most of the guys who had contracts coming up where getting "good" deals to stay.

He also seemed to imply that some of them might be getting some added flexibility in their deals (though he didn't think it would be as far as them allowing Daniel Bryan to work New Japan).

But yes - as Dave noted - his reintroduction to the Main Event was either a thank you for staying or an incentive to stay

Remember Rodrick Strong signed a new deal too. So, contrary to popular belief, not everyone is racing out the door.

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13 hours ago, Dog said:

Is it weird that my memory says no one here liked ROH during its actual heyday? Like, mid-2000s. I feel like everyone thought it was too spotty at the time, but came around on it after the fact.

I don't remember it like that.  I recall a lot of excitement around here for ROH say pre-2010.  

I used to religiously read Kris Z's (I think it was Kris') upcoming shows and results reports that were posted every day.  I couldn't wait to hear about the results of an ROH show so I'd know whether or not I wanted to order that dvd when it came out.

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I personally don't remember a lot of "too spotty" arguments about literally anything in wrestling until post-Benoit/Misawa deaths and maybe the advent of the AWA set, but that's probably more of a personal journey thing than how things entirely were. The Davey Richards/Eddie Edwards stuff was 2011, right?

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My only memory of the pre-Sinclair ROH is just how uncomfortable I felt being at the one show I went to in Pbiladelphia (Quack vs Danielson). I left at halftime and didn't go back until a couple years ago when the CMLL guys first came to a TV tapings in Baltimore. 

(But that's more of a me problem than an ROH problem.) 

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14 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I personally don't remember a lot of "too spotty" arguments about literally anything in wrestling until post-Benoit/Misawa deaths and maybe the advent of the AWA set, but that's probably more of a personal journey thing than how things entirely were. The Davey Richards/Eddie Edwards stuff was 2011, right?

I feel like if we went back and looked at who we thought was too spotty, it would hold up fairly well. I feel like Danielson,  Punk, Joe,  etc. were well liked in real time. The early Indy boom was full of great wrestling,  but at the same time it was missing a lot of the fundamental parts that make wrestling matches more interesting than just a string of moves.  I feel like it's the same complaint s lot of people have with the Young Bucks. Sure,  they do a lot of fun stuff,  but it all feels like someone throwing paint onto a wall. Sure,  there is an art to it,  but if you're the type that wants to appreciate the brush strokes in the Mona Lisa, it's probably not going to appeal to you. 

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As a father, I completely understand why KO took every cent he could get. I hope he used his past relationship with Cole and The Bucks to drive his price up as far as possible.

 

As a wrestling fan, I have no idea why anyone would stay with WWE when they could go elsewhere. 

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Quote

Jeff Hardy will be hitting the road for an acoustic concert tour. 

The ex-WWE star has announced a series of acoustic music performances, paired with meet-and-greets. The tour begins Thursday, December 16 in Milwaukee, and will have eight dates in total. Tickets for the shows are available here. 

Hardy will play December 17 in Rosemont, Illinois, December 18 in Rockford Illinois, and December 19 in Des Moines, Iowa. The tour will continue in January with dates in Nebraska, North Dakota and South Dakota on January 13, 14, 15 and 16. 

 

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