December 2021 Wrestling Discussion

[supremebve]

Just now, HumanChessgame said:

As someone who doesn't speak Japanese, how were Liger's mic skills generally regarded?

As a follow up to this,  does anyone actually care about mic skills outside of the United States? 

[AxB]

21 minutes ago, supremebve said:

As a follow up to this,  does anyone actually care about mic skills outside of the United States? 

Name a WoS wrestler who was good on the mic.

Obviously modern UK wrestlers are deeply infected with WWE-ism now. But back in the day, when British Wrestling and American Wrestling were completely separate? Interviews and angles were minimal. Wrestling was about wrestling.

[Spontaneous]

If you're closing out the show in Japan it's kinda customary at times to speak to the crowd but it's not exactly a promo. Now, charisma I think is more important than promos worldwide. Seeming enthused and acting as if you are invested in what is going on can go a long way. 

[AxB]

Well, look at Onita. I never knew what he was saying in those show closing FMW promos, but gods damn could he deliver them.

[Beech27]

Promo ability and color commentary don't correlate 1-to-1, but Liger has been an announcer for long time, and is I think considered to be really funny in that role. 

And while we're discussing extras to pad out his resume, he also kept a room in the dojo forever, acting as trainer/mentor figure for several generations of wrestlers. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Beech27

[Dolfan in NYC]

Please prepare your fainting couch before you read this...

 

[Ultimo Necro]

My prediction is he finally gets a new gimmick, gets promos played saying “coming soon to Raw” for a couple of months.  Debuts. Gets purged the night after.

[twiztor]

19 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Please prepare your fainting couch before you read this...

 

looks too similar to Randy Savage? (first of all, the wrestling world needs more "Macho Man"s)

Look, he's my favorite wrestler of all time. But he left WWF 27 years ago. he essentially retired over 20 years ago. He died 10 years ago.

i think somebody with colorful trunks and a beard can probably stand on his own. were they going to partner him with a woman named Elizabeth? Did they change his music to Pomp & Circumstance? Will he steal the Kool Aid Man's catchphrase? Elias has shown that he can get stuff over. what the fuck are you paying creative for?

/rant

[supremebve]

5 minutes ago, twiztor said:

looks too similar to Randy Savage? (first of all, the wrestling world needs more "Macho Man"s)

Look, he's my favorite wrestler of all time. But he left WWF 27 years ago. he essentially retired over 20 years ago. He died 10 years ago.

i think somebody with colorful trunks and a beard can probably stand on his own. were they going to partner him with a woman named Elizabeth? Did they change his music to Pomp & Circumstance? Will he steal the Kool Aid Man's catchphrase? Elias has shown that he can get stuff over. what the fuck are you paying creative for?

/rant

Don't you understand that Vince McMahon is a creative genius. He can't seem to come up with anything better than average unless an all time great wrestler is involved, but he's clearly a genius. Ask anybody. 

[caley]

38 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Please prepare your fainting couch before you read this...

 

Now people are (rightfully) singling out the "Macho Man" section of this tweet, but I think the first part is funnier and even more damning of WWE Creative. "Let's shoot some promos in a graveyard to kill off the music part of this gimmick, you know the part that got you more over than anything else, got you an actual charting EP, took you from being a bit player in NXT to an actual upper-card wrestler on the main shows." "Am I going to be some sort of supernatural character, hence the graveyard?" "No...but we'll figure it out from there. Or not..."

Seriously, how do you "script" vignettes in a graveyard without having any sort of endgame to them? Utterly fascinating. 

[J.H.]

The thing is, the Macho Man tribute act was already done by a better wrestler than Elias

James

[supremebve]

4 minutes ago, caley said:

Now people are (rightfully) singling out the "Macho Man" section of this tweet, but I think the first part is funnier and even more damning of WWE Creative. "Let's shoot some promos in a graveyard to kill off the music part of this gimmick, you know the part that got you more over than anything else, got you an actual charting EP, took you from being a bit player in NXT to an actual upper-card wrestler on the main shows." "Am I going to be some sort of supernatural character, hence the graveyard?" "No...but we'll figure it out from there. Or not..."

Seriously, how do you "script" vignettes in a graveyard without having any sort of endgame to them? Utterly fascinating. 

This. There is no reason that Elias couldn't continue being the douchebag guitar playing dude who is on every college campus singing in front of the cafeteria. Everyone kind of knows one of those guys,  and we all hate him. Elias made that shit work and made it work well. There is no reason to change things that work. 

[caley]

4 minutes ago, supremebve said:

This. There is no reason that Elias couldn't continue being the douchebag guitar playing dude who is on every college campus singing in front of the cafeteria. Everyone kind of knows one of those guys,  and we all hate him. Elias made that shit work and made it work well. There is no reason to change things that work. 

And it was an easy gimmick to swing back and forth from heel to face. Short a face? Have Elias lead crowds in singalongs mocking the heels. Too many faces? Have Elias go back to singing songs in the ring or get interrupted mid-song by a face. It's easy shit that's never going to main event, but always gets the crowd into it one way or the another in the middle of the show when people are starting to sag. Taking away the music gimmick, without a suitable replacement gimmick, just leaves Elias one among many jacked-up, bearded guys with middling ring skills.

[ReiseReise]

3 hours ago, supremebve said:

As a follow up to this,  does anyone actually care about mic skills outside of the United States? 

As a European, I do. I can't speak for everyone, of course. 

[(BP)]

They can’t figure out what to do with Elias? Bray’s gone, this shit writes itself. 
 

Spoiler

 

[AxB]

17 hours ago, D.Z said:

I forgot to post this

https://www.wwe.com/article/wwe-nil-next-in-line-program

A new program that will provide a clear pathway from collegiate athletics to WWE.

NIL is the WWE's new recruitment policy, but it doesn't stand for Next In Line, it stands for No Indie Losers.

As far as Elias not doing the Guitar Guy gimmick, he can't do that now because Boogz is doing it now. And we can't have any gimmick duplication in the WWE.

[supremebve]

5 minutes ago, ReiseReise said:

As a European, I do. I can't speak for everyone, of course. 

Is this in relation to American wrestling?  Is this something your local wrestling values?  I was wondering if other countries with wrestling traditions care. I don't know whether anyone actually cares what lucha or Japanese wrestlers say or if they are judged by Mexican or Japanese fans based on whether or not they can cut a promo. 

[Cobra Commander]

would imagine that physical charisma is a lot more important than mic skills in most of the world, meanwhile not sure how many workers in the US stick out for physical charisma while not being much on the mic

[ReiseReise]

1 hour ago, supremebve said:

Is this in relation to American wrestling?  Is this something your local wrestling values?  I was wondering if other countries with wrestling traditions care. I don't know whether anyone actually cares what lucha or Japanese wrestlers say or if they are judged by Mexican or Japanese fans based on whether or not they can cut a promo. 

There are probably people with more knowledge on the German / Austrian catch than me, but I had the feeling that talking / promos were never a part of this particular region in wrestling. I think it was simply a live show, not really formatted TV. If there were TV broadcasts, it was probably taped live events and such. 

So, I don't think it's a particular part of the wrestling over here. It kind of became one after the Catch Wrestling Association died and all the successors were influenced by American wrestling, I feel.

I personally like the Promos of classic US Wrestling, some guys really just talked people into the buildings. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by ReiseReise

[Ultimo Necro]

I think promo skills are “same but different” depending on the culture.  Each country has their own way of dealing with it.

Brits are traditionally a more reserved people so would appreciate the understated tones of a tough working class northener telling the bad guy how he’s going to “knock ‘is bloody teeth down ‘is throat this Saturday in Blackpool”

In all the world of sport I ever watched I don’t think I ever really heard any of them raise their voice above a stern lecture, but they were all exceptional at delivering what they wanted to say…. Just very politely.  I believe Big Daddy et all was a bit more “American wrestling” in his presentation.

Americans are generally perceived as loud, brash and over the top and it 100% comes through in wrestling promos.

Maybe wrestling promos are a gateway into the soul of a nation.

[Kang]

Next year WWE will jump ahead to digital only releases of their media for USA and Canada. So no more Blu-Ray and DVD home video releases anymore beginning 2022 in those two countries. Survivor Series 2021 and Drew's are the last to be released in those formats.

They already de-emphasized both DVDs and Blu-Rays in recent years and they rather just focus on the WWE Network.

[(BP)]

I’ve been watching Otto Wanz matches, and the presentation is very much like a sports broadcast. He does post fight interviews that are supposed to be naturalistic, so at least in his case he didn’t have to be a great talker. 

[worldcupfever]

19 hours ago, Gordberg said:

Here's a navel-gazer for ya:

If you were in Ronnie Garvin's shoes in 1987, knowing what we all know now, would you have said yes to the world title run?

I mean, for the rest of your life you could legitimately claim that you were NWA World Heavyweight Champion, that you beat Flair for the belt, that you main evented Starrcade going up against Survivor Series... You could have a picture of yourself wearing the 20 pounds of gold on your living room wall as a conversation piece...

Or if you are a more humble person, you'd still have that memory of the crowd marking out and all the boys coming to the ring to celebrate with you.

But, at the same time, you'd be remembered as (one of) the worst NWA champion(s) of all time, everybody who really knows wrestling would be well aware that it was kind of a nothing reign just to set up a Flair win at Starrcade...

I'd guess most of us would have said yes. Probably jumped at the chance. Better to have been a placeholder world champion for two months than never have been there at all, right?

And Garvin was 42 at that time, so it must have felt like that was his one and only chance at it.

I remember my girlfriend at the time really marking out for Garvin's win. I think the build to it was pretty darned good, with Garvin training so hard. They may have built some "one and only chance real-life feeling into it as well. 

I marked out at the time because it was the first time in my young wrestling fandom that I really did think people could get elevated out of nowhere after seeing the world title matches rotate between Hawk, Dusty, and Nikita for a while before that.  I was pissed, though, that my guy Barry Windham got pushed aside for Ron Garvin.

[SirSmUgly]

6 hours ago, AxB said:

Name a WoS wrestler who was good on the mic.

Jim Breaks pitching a fit after taking an L?

(I do see your point, however.)

[J.H.]

Elevated out of nowjere? The Garvin title win?

They'd been hyping him chasing Flair since July and stuck him in War Games 2. They made a training video set to Frank Sinatra's "My Way" and played ad nauseum tothe pint it was even the UWF syndie show fer chrissake... you can say many things about Ronnie Garvin's title win but "coming out of nowhere" is not one of them!

James