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Rampage - 11/26/2021


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Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie
3 hours ago, Matt D said:

I’d argue the gimmick meant more because Britt beat Abadon last time.

Agreed. Not to mention that if you're going to go with 50/50 booking, it's better to have it be with someone who has the credibility of being a former champion with a legitimate gripe in not actually being eliminated from a battle royale like Riho, as opposed to a person who hadn't been on regular TV in months and was seemingly put into the match to fit a Halloween themed show like Abadon.

That's actually a pretty major issue with AEW as a whole, actually. I had absolutely no reason to want to see Abadon because I haven't watched their YouTube shows, so I hadn't seen her since her title match with Hikaru Shida all the way back in January because that was the first time she was on TV. So why exactly is she one match away from a title shot, anyway? Why was she even wrestling the champion, aside from "it's a Halloween show and here's our zombie"?

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I agree, but the problem is at least slightly mitigated by the way AEW tracks won-loss records and regularly presents them to the viewer. Unless you not only don't watch the YouTube shows but actively dispute their existence, you should be able to accept that she was something like 20-2 going into that match and that it was therefor not outrageous for her to be one match away from a title shot.

Of course, presenting a winning streak through a won-loss record rather actually showing the matches is a textbook violation of "Show don't tell", so obviously it's not ideal.

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Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie
1 minute ago, tbarrie said:

I agree, but the problem is at least slightly mitigated by the way AEW tracks won-loss records and regularly presents them to the viewer. Unless you not only don't watch the YouTube shows but actively dispute their existence, you should be able to accept that she was something like 20-2 going into that match and that it was therefor not outrageous for her to be one match away from a title shot.

Of course, presenting a winning streak through a won-loss record rather actually showing the matches is a textbook violation of "Show don't tell", so obviously it's not ideal.

Well sure, but that would also mean I'd have to accept that Billy Gunn's children are worldbeaters, and I simply refuse to accept that reality.

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2 minutes ago, Stefanie the Human said:

Well sure, but that would also mean I'd have to accept that Billy Gunn's children are worldbeaters, and I simply refuse to accept that reality.

Oh God, don't get me started on the Gunn Club. Why the fuck are these goobers wasting Darby Allin and Sting's time? What happened to their feud with Paul Wight? Because if the Gunn Club aren't losing three-on-one matches to Paul Wight, I don't want to see them on my screen.

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14 minutes ago, tbarrie said:

Oh God, don't get me started on the Gunn Club. Why the fuck are these goobers wasting Darby Allin and Sting's time? What happened to their feud with Paul Wight? Because if the Gunn Club aren't losing three-on-one matches to Paul Wight, I don't want to see them on my screen.

It's a rehab feud that will likely have Show be the third man on Darby's side to even the numbers. It shouldn't last more than another couple of weeks and he needs to beat somebody after losing on back to back PPVS. I don't love the Gunn Club eating up tv time but they had to eventually get promoted after their run on Dark and Austin is a solid poor man's Buff Bagwell. AEW needs more of those guys. 

I am usually hosting DnD Fridays so I'm busy scrambling around preparing for that, but what I saw of Kingston/Garcia I loved for all the reasons Matt D mentioned. I really liked what I saw of Britt and Riho, though I didn't like how big of an upset they made it seem with Riho being the first women's champ in the division. They've done a real poor job of featuring her since her return. The TBS and tag belts can't come soon enough. 

Edited by Jiji
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2 hours ago, Jiji said:

It's a rehab feud that will likely have Show be the third man on Darby's side to even the numbers. It shouldn't last more than another couple of weeks and he needs to beat somebody after losing on back to back PPVS.

I agree. He needs to beat somebody. The Gunn Club are nobody. Beating them does nothing for Darby. On the contrary, struggling against them drags him down.

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16 minutes ago, Dog said:

How has Darby struggled? He overcame all the Ass Family's chicanery to beat Billy clean.

Billy spent most of the match shrugging off everything Darby tried and basically making Darby look like a joke, then kicked out of Darby's previously well-protected finisher before a one count. I realize Darby technically won the match, but it didn't help him at all.

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Gunn Club is clearly one of those short feuds like MJF/Pillman recently.

I don’t mind them because it gives the big star a little reset in between bigger feuds and  gives the younger guys a chance to get a taste of the big show so to speak.

Colten and Austin can put young Darby in the spotlight for this one.

What’s with their 1992-1993 Shawn Michaels tights anyway?

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Totally agree on that. Although this talking point tends to get a weird amount of push back on here (for DVDVR I feel like the real Suzuki incident was suggesting they should do a video montage for him). 

When they’re bringing in YouTube regulars off the bench it just seems like a no-brainer to do a quick highlight reel of them winning, help establish what their finishers are/what is dangerous about them. Doing them as little character pieces with guys like The Gunns obnoxiously commentating over it would be a great touch as well.

I really like the win-loss records as a tool to establish credibility BTW. I think the concept has been established enough now that you can start to play off it a bit more, like they did the little trophy thing for Shida’s wins. I like the idea of them playing off the ‘padding records’ thing with a heel taking obviously easy matches to build up a big win streak. 

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23 hours ago, AxB said:

Sammy's had injured ribs for weeks. Like he was too hurt to take part in the pre-PPV Bowling Tournament (but still did a Flip Senton off a ladder ON the PPV). The Jay Lethal match was built around him selling the midsection.

And Nese's promo was all about how he'd been scouting the opposition. So obviously he went after the injury.

Right! Completely forgot about those ribs.  Maybe Vince is right about some of us and our attention span.  Er...

Completely agree with @Matt Don some highlighting reels for the Gunn’s.  I was never much of a fan of the Assman, but I think his boys have potential and am glad to see them get a try.  @Jijimentioned Austin being a poor man’s Buff which is a great compliment to anyone who can isolate in mind the pre-neck injury Bagwell nWo run.  He was a ton of fun and a fantastic heel.  I’ve been wondering what these two might have in them as heels and happy to see them get a shot like I am any of the hardworking Young Dark crew. Austin in particular bumps beautifully - eg. that incredible collaborative Darby spot from Dynamite.  This feud is good strategy to put Darby back on the winning side as he further ascends.  

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The problem with the records and guys like Billy Gunn showing up out of nowhere with insane totals is that there is no context for them. Other than the uncommented upon scroll at the bottom of the screen showing results, Dark and Elevation are never mentioned on the TV shows. I can't think of a time, at least since Rampage started, that Excalibur has said something like "tune into Dark this Tuesday on Youtube, X will be fighting Y." Maybe they did when Dynamite was the only show on TV, I don't remember, but otherwise the online shows seem to exist in their own universe.

Using the Youtube shows to give people reps and goose records is great, but it is silly when Billy Gunn, who has had three singles matches on TV since AEW started, shows up with a Golbergian record and there's no clips or explanations as to how that happened. Especially when you have him literally dominate one of your biggest stars.

Edited by elizium
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Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie
32 minutes ago, elizium said:

Using the Youtube shows to give people reps and goose records is great, but it is silly when Billy Gunn, who has had three singles matches on TV since AEW started, shows up with a Golbergian record and there's no clips or explanations as to how that happened. Especially when you have him literally dominate one of your biggest stars.

Yeah, that's my issue with it. I took a look at the records a moment ago, and Colten Gunn is 35-0. Austin Gunn is 35-3. Those mean absolutely nothing to me because my context to them just from watching Dynamite and Rampage is "these are Billy Gunn's dork kids who were in the audience during the pandemic era shows, and one of them got knocked out by that guy that Cody Rhodes nuked in minutes and hasn't been back since". So their records really are meaningless to me, which kinda defeats the purpose of padding their records out so much.

I mean, if the story is "these guys are beating tomato cans to pad out their records and they aren't actually as good as the record suggests", then great, but I have no context for it either way because I'm not really being told anything by the people putting the show together.

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They’re absolutely not getting the full value out of the YouTube shows. If they’re going to do them anyway, they should really maximize that.

EDIT: This is a little unfair. They tend to do good things like ensuring a team (like Sydal/Moriarty) that's about to have a Dynamite spot get a focused win. Or when Jade was going up against Hirsch, they had each wrestler face someone similar to their upcoming opponent's body type. That sort of thing. Let me put it this way, they're pretty good at using Dark to build things moving forward but they're far less good at using it by looking backwards.

Edited by Matt D
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19 hours ago, Stefanie the Human said:

Agreed. Not to mention that if you're going to go with 50/50 booking, it's better to have it be with someone who has the credibility of being a former champion with a legitimate gripe in not actually being eliminated from a battle royale like Riho, as opposed to a person who hadn't been on regular TV in months and was seemingly put into the match to fit a Halloween themed show like Abadon.

I can somewhat buy that argument because it speaks to Riho's championship pedigree and Abadon's streaky appearances in the fed.

A big win for Riho is huge since she already has to deal with all of this "she's too tiny to do any damage to anyone" crap, but it is still bullshit to book a loss to a zombie gimmick on Halloween.

Edited by J.T.
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2 hours ago, Matt D said:

They’re absolutely not getting the full value out of the YouTube shows. If they’re going to do them anyway, they should really maximize that.

EDIT: This is a little unfair. They tend to do good things like ensuring a team (like Sydal/Moriarty) that's about to have a Dynamite spot get a focused win. Or when Jade was going up against Hirsch, they had each wrestler face someone similar to their upcoming opponent's body type. That sort of thing. Let me put it this way, they're pretty good at using Dark to build things moving forward but they're far less good at using it by looking backwards.

And all that stuff is great...for Dark. But at no point during Dynamite do they say things like Sydal and Moriarty have been looking really good teaming up on Dark, they must be feeling super confident or Cargill has been scouting Hirsch and Sterling has been getting her to wrestle fighters with similar styles in preparation. Exaclibur on Dynamite/Rampage and Tazz on Rampage should be all over stuff like that. It doesn't take video packages, just an acknowledgement that these things are happening and what these records mean. Billy Gunn (sorry for belabouring the point) walking onto Dynamite with a record like he does and your first thought is wow, why isn't he getting title shots?

 

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9 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I think we are all in agreement here now. Well done DVDVR board.

Well. Everyone could just watch Dark and Elevation and it would solve all of this.

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Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie
1 hour ago, DEAN said:

Well. Everyone could just watch Dark and Elevation and it would solve all of this.

Cuts into my Ice Ribbon watching, tbh.

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Just now, Stefanie the Human said:

Cuts into my Ice Ribbon watching, tbh.

Well.  If you do like me and retire, you will have PLENTY of time to watch wrestling all day.

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