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SPIDER-MAN: NO WAY HOME - 12/15/2021


Dolfan in NYC

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The thing is with the MCU, we generally don't have to.  They usually have better attention to detail than this movie did.  It was good and I liked it, but they tried to mash 3 different movie ideas together and, it might've worked better as a standalone.

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4 hours ago, RandomAct said:

Right. That apartment he got wasn't the nicest thing ever, but it also wasn't the dump that Tobey Parker lived in, so I doubt he found someone operating under the table like that. He also has to pay for it somehow, and I'm not sure what kind of freelance work he'd be able to get. Maybe Tony left a trust fund for when he turned 18?  I get the feeling that we aren't supposed to look this deep into it lol.

I think it’s part don’t think too deep about it and part it was a very nuanced and intricate spell that Peter and Strange didn’t fully think through all the consequences of.  I think the spell did two different things 1) made people forget Peter Parker/and 2) magicked away evidence of or people “seeing” any evidence of knowing Peter Parker. So when Ned and MJ look at a picture that has Peter in it, he’s there and they just don’t “see” it, but he still has a bank account, social security, etc… because no one needs to know or remember him for those things to still exist.  He can always reintroduce himself to people, but they won’t remember if they previously knew him.
 

Needing to get a GED may not fully mesh with this, unless Peter had to drop out because showing up and reintroducing himself to everyone and convincing the school and teachers that this kid who they have no memory of ever being there should be graduating.

One of the biggest problem with the MCU movies is that they’re based on comic book stories with typical comic book plot holes, but people expect better plotting from movies.  Marvel is trying to have it both ways to varying success.  The biggest plot hole with the blip is what happened to all the people who blipped away while driving  cars or planes or helicopters, like the ones we see crashing right as the blip happened. Like did Nick Fury (or the Skrull impersonating him) just reappear in the middle of the busy street he got dusted in?

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Well, going by Hawkeye and Wandavision, people undusted exactly where they were when they dusted.

Course, now that we've seen the process from the POV of a victim, that's even more "How the fuck did Strange/Wong assemble that army in 15 minutes?" in Endgame.

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Just saw it. Fucking loved it. It was hilarious. With the short time he had on screen, they did a better job making Garfield into Spider-Man than two whole movies did. 

Yeah, there are some obvious questions about the spell at the end, but I'm trying to not focus on it too hard at this point. Feels like total overkill to erase the memory of Peter from existence, but with a new trilogy of Holland Spider-Man movies announced, I'm assuming the endgame for those will be MJ, Ned, Happy, and the rest of the Avengers knowing it's Peter that is Spider-Man and then passing the torch to Miles. Hell, what happens when Spider-Man goes to help the Avengers again and then Peter unmasks. They're going to ask what his name is and he'll say it's Peter Parker. Maybe this is also more of a way to teach Peter to be more careful with having a secret identity. 

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One of my low-key favorite things about this movie is how, after Aunt May dies, Peter accepts it like a responsible adult instead of making an actual deal with the devil, and the magic used to fix everything comes at an actual personal cost to Peter that makes things worse for him and that he’s aware of, instead of seemingly making everything better for him while making him forget the actual cost.

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2 hours ago, JonnyLaw said:

One of my low-key favorite things about this movie is how, after Aunt May dies, Peter accepts it like a responsible adult instead of making an actual deal with the devil, and the magic used to fix everything comes at an actual personal cost to Peter that makes things worse for him and that he’s aware of, instead of seemingly making everything better for him while making him forget the actual cost.

This. Putting people's welfare above Peter's own and the cost to him. With great power there must also come great responsibility.

I fucking hate Spider-Man: One More Day. The worst Spider-Man story ever and probably the worst comic book I've ever. Sins Past is shit as well. Joseph Michael Straczynski really blotted his Spider-Man run with both even though he did some great things.

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43 minutes ago, The Natural said:

This. Putting people's welfare above Peter's own and the cost to him. With great power there must also come great responsibility.

I fucking hate Spider-Man: One More Day. The worst Spider-Man story ever and probably the worst comic book I've ever. Sins Past is shit as well. Joseph Michael Straczynski really blotted his Spider-Man run with both even though he did some great things.

The beginning of his run got me back into reading comics, the end got me out of reading them.

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1 minute ago, JonnyLaw said:

The beginning of his run got me back into reading comics, the end got me out of reading them.

I can understand why. The great things Joseph Michael Straczynski did: writing a mature Peter Parker, the marriage of Peter/Mary Jane Watson-Parker, nobody wrote Aunt May better than JMS and three of the best Spider-Man stories in Coming Home/The Conversation/Doomed Affairs. Makes it more frustrating with the fucking wretched Sins Past/One More Day. I really recommend The Superior Foes of Spider-Man and Finale from Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man #310. The latter is perfect. @Matt D would attest to that.

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Spoiler

In an nterview with Marvel.com, Tom Holland revealed what it was like to work alongside the Daredevil star on the set of Spider-Man: No Way Home. "We had so much fun working with Charlie. It's really interesting doing a scene between two Super Heroes that has no real Super Hero stuff in it. Apart from the bit when he catches the brick."

"It was awesome. It was great," the actor enthused. "I loved working with Charlie."

I was so chuffed seeing Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock/Daredevil again.

 

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Took my daughter to see No Way Home and we absolutely loved it!  Spider-Man movies have more heart than nearly all of the other Marvel movies combined.  How did the writers take the most hated Spider-Man story arc of all time and make such a wonderful thing out of it.  I guess the first step was to remove the stupid fucking Mephisto part, right?

I was broken hearted that Aunt May died, but I did like how this movie tried to get back into the mode of handing out justice and compassion to villains rather than death sentences.   Totally marked for the hybrid traditional look for the Green Goblin and the Hobgoblin tease, which may not turn out to be a tease now that Ned doesn't remember Peter, has talent for magic, and is off to MIT.  What will become of Ned now that Pete isn't around to be a positive influence?  We'll have to find out later on.

I kept myself spoiler free so now I realize what Vile One was talking about when he said that Avengers Tower possibly becoming OsCorp HQ was impossible since it looks like not all of Spidey's rogues gallery exist in the same universe in the same form... including Venom...

... well... not anymore, right?

Nearly wept when Spidey 3 saved MJ.  Wow.  What a powerful little scene.

Marked heavily for Peter moving into his shitty little apartment in Chelsea.  I guess the next step is to go apply for a job with the Daily Fix, right?

I thought that Doctor Strange would be an annoying deus ex machina factor, but that was not the case.  I like how he and Wong were used in the grand scheme of things.

Did you see how the lighting bolt mask from Electro's old costume manifested itself as a halo whenever New Electro used his powers?  Little things, man.  Little things made this movie great.

And do not fear, Electro.  There is indeed a black Spider-Man out there somewhere!

MILLION BILLION STARS~!

Edited by J.T.
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Has nobody considered that possibly, the spell got messed up and Spider-Man's multiversal enemies started showing up because of reasons other than Peter changing the spell? Because obviously, Electro didn't know who Spider-Man really was, and yet he showed up anyway. 

Maybe, it was actually all Loki's fault, or Wanda's. With everyone having these theories about how all that stuff was happening simultaneously and that.

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18 minutes ago, AxB said:

Has nobody considered that possibly, the spell got messed up and Spider-Man's multiversal enemies started showing up because of reasons other than Peter changing the spell? Because obviously, Electro didn't know who Spider-Man really was, and yet he showed up anyway. 

Maybe, it was actually all Loki's fault, or Wanda's. With everyone having these theories about how all that stuff was happening simultaneously and that.

Yes, I had the same thought. I’m not sure how all the timelines of the different shows line up, but if you were a time traveling, multiversal conquerer, now would be a pretty good time to strike. Iron Man and Black Widow are dead, Steve Cap is gone and has been replaced by a non-powered human, Hulk is injured, Thor is in space, etc...

Edited by JonnyLaw
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23 minutes ago, AxB said:

Has nobody considered that possibly, the spell got messed up and Spider-Man's multiversal enemies started showing up because of reasons other than Peter changing the spell? Because obviously, Electro didn't know who Spider-Man really was, and yet he showed up anyway. 

Maybe, it was actually all Loki's fault, or Wanda's. With everyone having these theories about how all that stuff was happening simultaneously and that.

I chalked it up to Doctor Strange still not being super great at his job. Like, the dude just was like, aha, ok, let's just make everyone forget that you're Spider-Man! He did eventually come to the realization that Peter is just a kid, but that was well after he started casting the spell. Maybe get all of the specifics first? Not only that, but it wouldn't be the first or second time Strange took on a spell that was too big for him.

I blame Wong. He was more concerned with staying warm and dry instead of making sure Strange didn't fuck anything else up. Strange seems like someone that should always have someone to check his impulses. Guy thinks he has the same skill and luck he had as a surgeon, but he's still not at that same level as a sorcerer. 

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3 hours ago, AxB said:

Wong was too busy lining his pockets on the underground superhuman MMA circuit.

Yeah, plus Wong shouldn’t be the babysitter of the fucking Sorcerer Supreme. Clearly this is actually the Ancient One’s fault.

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6 minutes ago, AxB said:

Wong isn't the Babysitter to the Sorcerer Supreme. Wong IS the Sorcerer Supreme. Title passed to him while Strange was blipped.

Wasn't that ONLY because he was blipped, though? Presumably since Strange is back, he's now the Sorcerer Supreme again. I mean it sure seemed like he was doing what Strange wanted during the final battle of Endgame.

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On 12/21/2021 at 11:20 AM, christopher.annino said:

So that's just it - if he's just a nobody to even those who knew him best, what about them having this stranger on their social media friend list? Or, as I put earlier, a bunch of pictures hanging out with this nobody? It would have to go beyond simply wiping people's memories to actually work. So yeah, that one had me confused on the drive home, and I suppose they can get there completely ignore it or pull it out sometime in the future if they want to have somebody "remember" him.

I didn't initially realize this myself, but saw it talked about in a video on Youtube. Every single big moment of the teenage years for MJ & Ned, Peter wasn't there. He was off doing Spiderman stuff. Like at the beginning of the movie they focus on a framed picture from home coming with Ned & MJ. Peter's not there. Because he left home coming to go fight The Vulture, so he wasn't there for their big picture. If you extrapolate that a little bit more I think this outcome is pretty plausible. Like if that same picture had MJ, Ned, & Peter taken one together they'd be like who the hell is this guy with us. But he was never there initially so there's less for them to question. He missed all the big documented moments.

Sure if you wanna get super deep down the rabbit hole there would be pictures of them with him on their phones or whatever. But it's gonna be like weird who is this guy I took a picture with? I don't remember him. Me neither. Whatever some weird dude at a party I guess. Delete. All those New York Post covers and the cover of Time magazine had to have been erased by the spell too, so I assume any trace of him being revealed gets erased. Peter Parker was still born. Still has an ID and a social security card. But any trace or link to him being Spiderman was dusted away. Anyone that ever met Peter Parker has those interactions erased from memory as well. He exists but is basically starting over as if he was blipped into a timeline that he never existed in.

It's not as convoluted as it seems. They just didn't waste the time to explain every aspect of it.

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