UFC 268: Usman vs. Covington II (11/06/2021) - New York, NY (Madison Square Garden)

[jaedmc]

Colby could use this fight as his Austin/Hart face turn moment and freshen up his gimmick. Start coming out to Real American instead of You Suck.

[twiztor]

8 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

No judge gave Usman a 10-8 in R2? Or a judge actually agreed w/ my Shooto judging instincts and scored R5 10-10?

USA MMA judges still have an aversion to tie rounds, and a 10-8 in rd 2 would have been acceptable but still not the norm. I will continue to advocate for rounds that don't fall into the 10-9 trap, but we're a long way until that becomes a regular thing.

2 minutes ago, jaedmc said:

Colby could use this fight as his Austin/Hart face turn moment and freshen up his gimmick. Start coming out to Real American instead of You Suck.

good point. the post-fight keeps that option open. that being said, i don't see it happening. i expect Colby to double down. then again, maybe he'll wait for closer to 2024 when all the politcal bullshit ramps up again (P.S. somebody please kill me before that happens. i don't know if i can take this country tearing itself apart again)

[Elsalvajeloco]

Would people be happier if they did like boxing and Shooto where a knockdown automatically makes it 10-8? I wonder if they ran that experiment what would happen. You could also make it 10-8 if you have more than 4 plus minutes of ground control time. If someone takes you down at the very beginning of the round and you never get back up, that should be 10-8 unless you're doing good off your back and/or the fight is constantly changing positions with no clear dominance. However, if you're just getting punched and elbowed in the face (or getting submission after submission put on you) for more than 80% of the round, that's a 10-8 in my book. We're seeing a lot less lay and pray than we did 10-15 years ago because a guys will not lay motionless horizontally and not make it some type of struggle. If you can dominate on the ground like that in today's MMA, that automatically should be 10-8.

[supremebve]

10 minutes ago, twiztor said:

USA MMA judges still have an aversion to tie rounds, and a 10-8 in rd 2 would have been acceptable but still not the norm. I will continue to advocate for rounds that don't fall into the 10-9 trap, but we're a long way until that becomes a regular thing.

MMA judging is consistently atrocious,  and this is another example why. If you do your opponent face down in a round twice,  there is no way that should be scored 10-9.  Seriously, if the fight was stopped after the second knockdown it would have been 100% justified. It's absurd that there aren't any credible judges at this point in the MMA life cycle. I remember listening to an old Sherdog podcast and someone was so fed up with the judging they decided,  "I'm knowledgeable about MMA, I'm going to apply to be a judge." They quickly found out that there is no real way to become a judge unless you know someone who works for an athletic commission no matter how much you know about the sport. It's why people like Adelaide Bird consistently get work. 

[twiztor]

4 minutes ago, supremebve said:

MMA judging is consistently atrocious,  and this is another example why. If you do your opponent face down in a round twice,  there is no way that should be scored 10-9. 

Seriously, if the fight was stopped after the second knockdown it would have been 100% justified.

agreed with point #1. mma judging is largely fucking terrible. i live in iowa. i took a quick look at what it takes to be a judge, but since no major mma events happen here, i didn't find it to be worth the effort.

a tko after knockdown #2 would have been a bad stoppage IMO. colby was right back up, cognizant, and ready to defend.  i'm no Mazagatti, but i believe in giving the main card fighters more of a benefit of the doubt.

[The Natural]

3-0.

Edited November 7, 2021 by The Natural

[twiztor]

11 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Would people be happier if they did like boxing and Shooto where a knockdown automatically makes it 10-8? 

i'm curious about this too. a double knockdown = a 10-8 round makes sense to me in many but not all cases. i've long been a proponent of expanded scoring (10-8 should be WAY more prominent, 10-7 should be a regular score, and 10-6 shouldn't be a once a decade score) but that's not where we're at. a full tilt scoring overhaul needs to happen ASAP. 

revising the rules (10-to-6 elbows, re-evaluating the downed opponent rules, etc) would be my first priority. also, knees to a grounded opponent (look, i'm a Pride fan and still hope for knees/stomps/soccer kicks but i know that's extremely unlikely)

[Elsalvajeloco]

24 minutes ago, supremebve said:

They quickly found out that there is no real way to become a judge unless you know someone who works for an athletic commission no matter how much you know about the sport.

It likely depends on the jurisdiction. In certain places, you could have less than two dozen boxing matches judged and end up judging a world title bout just cause there aren't that many people the commission has active judges. I remember when Winky Wright fought Fernando Vargas at some casino in Oregon back in the day. They had one semi-experienced judge from NJ which makes you raise your eyebrow cause Fernando's promoter was based in Jersey. The two other judges were from Oregon and Dubuque, Iowa respectively and never really judged a fight of any true consequence saved for like a Michael Carbajal fight several years prior between the two. Those were the three people assigned to world title fight. And guess what? We got a bad decision.

UFC's issue is since they don't trust certain jurisdictions, they bring a lot of the same guys to every major event. Thus, you're going to have some of the same scoring. Judges don't usually change their philosophies. It's the inverse of their use of referees. If someone does a good job and are consistently good, they will use them more and more. And like last week, they will yank some local yokel if he fucks up bad. They will use the same judges for damn near every major card no matter where they are. Instead of trying out some new judges, they constantly trot out the same ones.

[The Natural]

Off to get some sleep. Cool watching UFC 268 with y'all.

[Elsalvajeloco]

56 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Ali Abdelaziz suit needs to be addressed, he looked like what would happen if Grimace fell on hard times and started pimping. 

I had to look it up

I didn't know Cross Colours made suits.

[supremebve]

13 minutes ago, twiztor said:

a tko after knockdown #2 would have been a bad stoppage IMO. colby was right back up, cognizant, and ready to defend.  i'm no Mazagatti, but i believe in giving the main card fighters more of a benefit of the doubt.

It would have been an unfortunate stoppage,  but a justified stoppage. If you go face down,  you're hurt enough that it doesn't occur to you to try to break your fall.  The Frankie Edgar knockout was similar,  but only happened once,  and he was done.  I wouldn't say Covington was right back up,  he dove for a leg and he was turtled up under Usman for long enough to clear the cobwebs. If they stopped the fight when he hit the ground the second time,  I'm not sure he would have been able to stand. I'm glad the fight wasn't stopped,  but that wouldn't have been a bad stoppage. 

[TheVileOne]

If there are marginal 10-9 rounds, there should be marginal 10-8 rounds as well. Round 2 was a 10-8 round. I think it was acceptable for the fight not to get stopped in round 2, but I still scored it 10-8 for Usman.

Also, Kamaru Usman is the greatest welterweight fighter of all time.

Edited November 7, 2021 by TheVileOne

[twiztor]

7 hours ago, twiztor said:

agreed with point #1. mma judging is largely fucking terrible. i live in iowa.

 

7 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

In certain places, you could have less than two dozen boxing matches judged and end up judging a world title bout just cause there aren't that many people the commission has active judges. I remember when Winky Wright fought Fernando Vargas at some casino in Oregon back in the day. They had one semi-experienced judge from NJ which makes you raise your eyebrow cause Fernando's promoter was based in Jersey. The two other judges were from Oregon and Dubuque, Iowa respectively and never really judged a fight of any true consequence saved for like a Michael Carbajal fight several years prior between the two.

and this is how i know that i'm being stalked.

[The Natural]

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by The Natural

[Elsalvajeloco]

4 hours ago, twiztor said:

 

and this is how i know that i'm being stalked.

That dude is probably your uncle.

[Jiji]

Didn't think this was real at first. He really should stop fighting. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

Unless he's fighting guys who are primarily grappling first, everyone is going to try to get to him on the feet. It's basically like a carnival game except it's not rigged. You actually have a good chance of knocking out Frankie Edgar.

[The Natural]

3 minutes ago, Jiji said:

Didn't think this was real at first. He really should stop fighting. 

Agreed. Last three defeats by KO/TKO and Frankie Edgar was knocked out cold for the first time by Corey Sandhagan.

[J.T.]

Not surprising that Gathje vs. Chandler got Fight of the Night.  

Chris Barnett, Bobby Green, Alex Pereira, and Marlon Vera all received Performance of The Night awards and bonuses.

Kinda bummed that White didn't write out two more checks to Burgos and Quarantillo.  On any card other than this one, that brawl would've been Fight of the Night.

Edited November 8, 2021 by J.T.

[twiztor]

4 hours ago, J.T. said:

Kinda bummed that White didn't write out two more checks to Burgos and Quarantillo.  On any card other than this one, that brawl would've been Fight of the Night.

hell, any other placement on THIS card and it would be way better received too. But coming after Gaethje/Chandler? not a chance.

[John E. Dynamite]

On 11/7/2021 at 1:42 PM, Jiji said:

Didn't think this was real at first. He really should stop fighting. 

Damn he kicked Frankie so hard he had him looking like Animal Crossing

[The Natural]

Michael Chandler's fought three times in the UFC, all three this year. Putting Dan Hooker away quickly, a back and forth battle with Charles Oliveira for the vacant UFC Lightweight Championship and the slugfest with Justin Gatheje. Real shame it wasn't a five rounder. Be interesting to see who he is booked to fight next.