RUST and the Horrible Tragedy Around It

[Curt McGirt]

Something I haven't thought about until just now is: does Rust even get finished or released? The Crow barely did. (If you haven't seen the Cursed Films episode on it you really should, btw. Crushing but very respectful. Michael Berryman says some things that are incredibly touching and also some that are incredibly angry under the surface. And justifiably so.)

Edited October 25, 2021 by Curt McGirt

[odessasteps]

The answer probably has to do with the insurance companies, sadly.

[J.T.]

On 10/23/2021 at 6:28 PM, odessasteps said:

Without knowing the answer, I wonder what factor does making a period fiction have, versus just making a movie with contemporary weapons? 

What period are we talking about?  If you are referring to films with a more colonial feel, sets are just as dangerous as the weapons still use black powder wads to get the bang and smoke effect we expect to see onscreen.  

There are gunsmiths and prop masters that specialize in the use of flintlocks and muskets just as there are swordmasters and the like, and they are brought in to make sure that the weapons are handled properly.  There is an archeologist at the Museum of the Revolutionary War at Yorktown that has a respectable side gig as a period firearms consultant.

If the budget is available, productions will bring in "extras" (usually from reenactment groups) that are well trained in colonial firearms use to be in the action sequences.  Individual actors are given training so that they are able to handle those weapons safely, but bad shit can still happen when protocols are not followed.

[J.T.]

So, I am beginning to hear things about how the prop gun was used for target practice by the equipment team, so it looks like this thing was a horrible perfect storm of negligence and a complete abandonment of the procedures that were put in place to keep people safe.  I suspect that live ammo wasn't commonplace on the set and that the prop guys may have brought it there.  Somehow poor Alec Baldwin got his hands on an uncleared firearm for the scene and the tragedy unfolded.

The scapegoats are in place for the reckoning.

[RIPPA]

 

[colonial]

A documentary that Alec Baldwin narrated on the Flint water crisis, which was scheduled to released in theaters Friday and digitally next month, has been delayed indefinitely due to the "Rust" tragedy ...

‘Flint’ Doc Narrated By Alec Baldwin Gets Release Date Push After ‘Rust’ Tragedy – Deadline

 

 

[supremebve]

4 hours ago, J.T. said:

So, I am beginning to hear things about how the prop gun was used for target practice by the equipment team, so it looks like this thing was a horrible perfect storm of negligence and a complete abandonment of the procedures that were put in place to keep people safe.  I suspect that live ammo wasn't commonplace on the set and that the prop guys may have brought it there.  Somehow poor Alec Baldwin got his hands on an uncleared firearm for the scene and the tragedy unfolded.

The scapegoats are in place for the reckoning.

I hate that we refer to movie guns as prop guns, when they're just guns.  It's 2021, the fact that we use real life firearms loaded with live ammo (blanks are 1/4 to 1/2 filled rounds without a projectile, but can be very dangerous) is legitimately fucking dumb.  Filmmakers will say it's for realism, but then make a movie where someone is shooting accurately while sprinting, shooting with a gun in each hand and diving through a window. This is a completely and totally avoidable accident, if we just thought for more than 1 second about why we're still doing this.  With that said, I don't expect anything to change, because this is America and we love guns more than we love people. 

[S.K.o.S.]

This is basically a repeat of the first paragraph of Jae's post, but:

 

[J.T.]

13 hours ago, supremebve said:

I hate that we refer to movie guns as prop guns, when they're just guns.

Well, there are differences between prop guns, replicas, and actual firearms.  Most replicas cannot be used as real firearms, but some replicas are actually decommissioned live firearms that are welded in such a manner that they cannot be fired.  

When we think of a prop gun, we tend to think of one designed to fire wadding, blanks, or flash paper in lieu of a live round, but they can still fire live rounds if loaded with one but the prop gun will probably be damaged when the live round is fired.  It is a mistake of lexicon to mix and match the terms.   Prop guns are designed to simulate actual firearms, not to be used as weapons themselves.

However, like anything else they become extremely dangerous if they are mishandled.

From the accounts I've read about the incident, it sounds like the "prop gun" was a genuine firearm since there are reports that the equipment team spent their free time target shooting with the weapons while off set.

Edited October 26, 2021 by J.T.

[J.T.]

So, the horror stories about the weaponmaster for Rust continue to pile up.  My thoughts have now turned from questions of safety to why did this person still have a job?

[JLSigman]

6 hours ago, J.T. said:

So, the horror stories about the weaponmaster for Rust continue to pile up.  My thoughts have now turned from questions of safety to why did this person still have a job?

Near as I can tell from everything, it's because most everyone else had walked off either due to the (eventually unneeded) strike and/or because it was already a shitshow of a production.

[J.T.]

We've also learned that the prop gun wasn't a prop per se.  It was an antique Colt revolver that could still fire live rounds.

Like I said, there are differences between prop guns, replicas, and actual firearms.  This weapon was an actual firearm.

The level of negligence is criminal.  Someone needs to go to jail over this shit.

Edited October 28, 2021 by J.T.

[Raziel]

There isn't a weaponsmaster worth his salt that doesn't treat a Colt SAA with kid gloves because even with precautions in place, those guns can go off by accident.  About all always keep the gun rested with on an empty chamber because the hammer/pin aren't 100% seccure and not moving.  There should never have been a live round in that gun in this setting.

[supremebve]

47 minutes ago, Raziel said:

There isn't a weaponsmaster worth his salt that doesn't treat a Colt SAA with kid gloves because even with precautions in place, those guns can go off by accident.  About all always keep the gun rested with on an empty chamber because the hammer/pin aren't 100% seccure and not moving.  There should never have been a live round in that gun in this setting.

I agree with all of this except, there should never be a live round in any gun in this setting.  I'd actually go further and say that there should never be a gun that can fire a live round in this setting.  Things like this should never happen, because there is no need for real life guns in make believe settings.  

[The Natural]

Stu Brumbaugh, who served as key grip on the Cage Western “The Old Way” this summer, told TheWrap that Gutierrez upset both Cage and other crew members on the Montana production by failing to follow basic gun safety protocols like announcing the arrival and usage of weapons onto the set.

After firing a gun near the cast and crew for a second time in three days without warning, Brumbaugh said that Cage yelled at her, “Make an announcement, you just blew my f—ing eardrums out!” before walking off set in a rage. “I told the AD, ‘She needs to be let go,’” Brumbaugh, adding, “After the second round I was pissed off. We were moving too fast. She’s a rookie.”

https://www.thewrap.com/rust-armorer-inexperience-hannah-gutierrez-fired-nicolas-cage-film/

[Tabe]

6 hours ago, J.T. said:

We've also learned that the prop gun wasn't a prop per se.  It was an antique Colt revolver that could still fire live rounds.

Like I said, there are differences between prop guns, replicas, and actual firearms.  This weapon was an actual firearm.

The level of negligence is criminal.  Someone needs to go to jail over this shit.

As more stories come out about Gutierrez's previous movie, and then this one, this whole thing just feels inevitable rather than an accident.  I mean, it's obviously not intentional but it sure wasn't accidental.  From Gutierrez cleaning and loading/unloading guns on a pebble/dirt road, to not telling people guns were hot to a million other instances of not following procedures that even I  know (without ever having been on a movie set), it just seems destined to have happened.  It's a shame no one in charge on Rust stepped up and got rid of her before this happened.

[supremebve]

This is my issue with America's obsession with firearms in general.  I don't care if responsible people want to own guns, I have a problem with the fact that we do absolutely nothing to stop people from using guns irresponsibly.  This dude's profession is handling firearms, and not only was he unsafe, he was habitually unsafe and he kept getting jobs.  Now, someone is dead because we created a society where no one wants to tell these assholes not to be reckless with firearms.  

[jaedmc]

25 minutes ago, supremebve said:

This is my issue with America's obsession with firearms in general.  I don't care if responsible people want to own guns, I have a problem with the fact that we do absolutely nothing to stop people from using guns irresponsibly.  This dude's profession is handling firearms, and not only was he unsafe, he was habitually unsafe and he kept getting jobs.  Now, someone is dead because we created a society where no one wants to tell these assholes not to be reckless with firearms.  

This was only her(Hannah Guttierrez) second job as a lead armorer. The first was the Nic Cage movie referenced. She's 24. Everything else she did, didn't require this much responsibility.

Apparently her dad was a well-known armorer who did L.A Confidential and 06' Miami Vice. Which probably explains how she got her start and was able to go from the Nic Cage movie to Rust despite quite a few mistakes - mistakes that probably came from being raised around this stuff and feeling waaaay too comfortable.

[TheVileOne]

On 10/25/2021 at 1:31 PM, RIPPA said:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2021/10/27/rust-shooting-santa-fe-sheriffs-alec-baldwin-live-round/8560736002/

Not sure how Dave Halls doesn't get charged at this point.

[Tabe]

To give you an idea of the judgment that the armorer has:

She was previously involved in a $50,000 insurance settlement deriving from a fatal motorcycle crash.  Her boyfriend had a previous DUI conviction (which Gutierrez knew about) and was not allowed to legally drive a vehicle without a breath device on it.  One night he and another guy were drinking.  Gutierrez, aware of his prior conviction and his drinking that night, gave him the keys to her motorcycle.  He was racing with a friend, the friend missed a turn and crashed into a wall, dying.  Her insurance paid a $50k settlement with the proviso that she not be charged as a result.

[odessasteps]

When I saw that story, I was trying to figure out if it was relevant to the case or just leaked to discredit her character. 

[Tabe]

Gutierrez-Reed has released a statement.  She says she was in total control of the guns at all times - but has no idea how live ammo showed up on the set or got in her guns.  It's all the producers' fault though.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-breaks-silence-153507790.html

 

[Tabe]

1 minute ago, odessasteps said:

When I saw that story, I was trying to figure out if it was relevant to the case or just leaked to discredit her character. 

It's relevant in the sense that it shows she is severely lacking in decision-making skills.

[Ace]

1 hour ago, Tabe said:

Gutierrez-Reed has released a statement.  She says she was in total control of the guns at all times - but has no idea how live ammo showed up on the set or got in her guns.  It's all the producers' fault though.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-breaks-silence-153507790.html

 

The "A Wizard did it" excuse.

 

[The Natural]

Eliza Hutton Breaks Silence 28 Years After Fiancé Brandon Lee's Death in the Wake of Rust Shooting

Eliza Hutton is coming forward for the first time since her fiancé Brandon Lee died following last week's tragic accidental shooting on the set of the Alec Baldwin film Rust. 

Brandon died at 28 in a similar accident in March of 1993 on the set of his film The Crow. Hutton, 57, tells PEOPLE that the accident on the New Mexico set of Rust that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza is yet another "avoidable tragedy."

"Twenty eight years ago, I was shattered by the shock and grief of losing the love of my life, Brandon Lee, so senselessly. My heart aches again now for Halyna Hutchins' husband and son, and for all those left in the wake of this avoidable tragedy," Hutton tells PEOPLE.

"I urge those in positions to make change to consider alternatives to real guns on sets," she says.

The pair had planned their wedding for April 17, 1993, after The Crow was scheduled to wrap production. Lee, son of martial arts star Bruce Lee, was killed on set on March 31st during the final week of production.

Brandon was killed when another actor shot him using a gun that was supposed to have only been loaded with blanks.

 

On Friday, Brandon's sister Shannon Lee shared a statement in the wake of the Rust shooting.

 

"Our hearts go out to the family of Halyna Hutchins and to Joel Souza and all involved in the incident on Rust. No one should ever be killed by a gun on a film set. Period" she wrote on her brother's Twitter page, where she tweets on behalf of his legacy.

Edited October 31, 2021 by The Natural