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Saturday Dynamite - 10/23/2021


Gordlow
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I mean twice in recent times we've seen Cody line himself up against one of the hottest signings they've had, put them over strong then come back immediately with a strong, definitive win way before anyone would say it was a good idea. This is legit the same thing that happened with Brodie, the booking which many disliked at the time while digging the match, which we never got to find out how it would have affected him due to Brodie getting sick shortly after. A big part of the HHH/Jarrett playbook is running as fast as you can to get involved with the hot hand, basking in the reflected heat and generally winning at the end. Those two would also act like working with them and giving them stuff during the body of the feud really established and put them over, even know in the aftermath they were generally less so. As far as I am aware only the fans are doing that part re: Cody atm.

Now would I say Cody in general has been anywhere as bad as those two at their worst? No way, that's insane. I don't think anyone can take away how good and generous he was for much of the early AEW run. That said... on this front his past year or so has been very worrisome. He seems very self-interested, everything around him feels like the Cody show and the fact that most people's thoughts were "please get Black away from Cody ASAP before things go bad for him" speaks volumes. He built up the trust in him, and he's effectively cashed it out. From here on things could course-correct after how the crowd has responded, or people's worries may be fully realized. I guess we'll see.

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Brodie feuded with Moxley for the AEW title before Cody ever got a whiff of a program with him. I don’t think that’s comparable to the Malakai situation.

We really need to stop using Brodie in talks about Cody. It lasted two months, and Brodie was already in the company for like six months at that point.

EDIT: I think the ONLY comparison you can make between Cody versus either of Malakai or Brodie is that the first match with both of them went sort of the same way, with Cody being destroyed pretty fast.

Edited by Casey
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The idea that Cody Rhodes is even close to Jeff Jarrett is one of the most ridiculous wrestling takes I have seen in a long time. I myself was a big time connoisseur of TNA back in '04. '05, '06 and let me tell you that nobody reigned supreme like Planet Jarrett. For instance, from their very first three hour PPV Victory Road 2004 until Bound for Glory 2006 - Jeff Jarrett main evented 16 of those 24 PPV's with three co-main events in there as well that were major storylines at the time. Couple that with the fact that out of those 714 days between Victory Road '04 and Bound for Glory '06 Jarrett held the NWA World Heavyweight title for 621 of them. That right there is putting not just the main event, but the championship belt in a stranglehold.

So to think that Cody Rhodes, a guy who was one of the main event pillars that this very company was founded upon with Chris Jericho, Jon Moxley, and Kenny Omega is anywhere near that is just laughable. To think that Cody wouldn't shouldn't or isn't worthy of a win over Malakai Black is a  little bit too far. Cody is 11-5 on the year after that win so it's not like he hasn't ate his share of losses either, but we also overanalyze everything because that's what we do as fans. Cody's bit doesn't bother me at all, but I respectfully agree that he can be a little cringe at times. He's done nothing but help elevate talent like MJF at the beginning of AEW's inception when Max wasn't exactly a household name, Darby Allin with the TNT Championship, and I dare say help establish Malakai Black fairly early in his run as well. Finding a nice balance between no 50/50 booking, eating L's, and yet being a credible 'main eventer' in a sports/win-loss record driven promotion is hard but I think Cody has done his job fairly well since AEW's birth.

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I don't love the booking either, but Black can be reheated (his Twitter post alone is a good step) and you've got Cody Rhodes set up for what could (and should) easily be the biggest heel run in AEW history. Cody casting aside his self-imposed No World Titles clause? Going after Page? HITTING A PEDIGREE? There is nothing in current AEW that could draw that much heat.

Also Jarrett's main event run was completely insane and I hope history remembers it as such. He made HHH look like Jun Akiyama.

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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The one comparison between Jarrett and Cody is this I feel. With TNA the fans would get excited for Rhino or Raven to get the big title win and of course they would pivot right back to Jarrett. Now Cody has not been in the world title picture (I almost wrote main event but I feel that he believes that his programs are sort of an alternate main event that have existed unto their own until the last two week) but it seems that him beating Black feels like one of the TNA pivots back to Jarrett. If not for the title then for the focus. Also both men feel the need to surround themselves giant entourages 

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Cody did defeat big new monster Lance Archer to win the TV Title during Archer's first hot run (took Archer quite a while to recover) and also beat Anthony Ogogo who was built up as a big-ish deal for a bit just to be beaten by Cody.

These are not on the same level of Malakai, or HHH going over Punk or whatever shit Jarret did in TNA for years, but it does start to leave a bit of a bad taste in your mouth after a while.

Cody was great during the first year of AEW up until he lost the TV Title . But as someone said above, we all wished Malakai could get away from the Cody crap ASAP so there's definitely a lingering feeling there of what his feuds have felt like for the past year.

Edited by eikerir
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6 hours ago, eikerir said:

Cody did defeat big new monster Lance Archer to win the TV Title during Archer's first hot run (took Archer quite a while to recover) and also beat Anthony Ogogo who was built up as a big-ish deal for a bit just to be beaten by Cody.

I can see the argument for the idea that maybe Cody should've put Lance Archer over in the TNT Title tournament because I like Southern booking where heels make the best inaugural champions, but green journeyman Anthony Ogogo should not be beating international veteran Cody Rhodes in a PPV blow-off even if Ogogo does look like a walking license to print money.

Dialed in Cody Rhodes should definitely be able to find a way to beat Malakai Black.  I just don't think it should've happened on free television as it cheapens the angle.

Edited by J.T.
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Bryan Danieson is awesome!  I like how he's making wrestling feel like a sport, winning four singles matches with four different finishes.  "I'm going to beat you with whatever I can" makes more sense than "I'm going to deplete your life bar and then hit my Special."  More of this, please!

Man, what a great match.  Danielson & Dustin really really have it.

ACCOUNTBILIBUDDY!!!!

That's two matches in a row where Ruby Soho goes over where she's the second best person in the ring.  Not that wrestling's history hasn't been chock full of good workers putting over people not as good as them.  But fuck, there were two Botchamania moments in that match...Ruby's reverse gutwrench into whatthefuckever and then Ruby gets thrown into the ropes, only to change direction and go to the corner.  At this rate, let's get her out with an injury angle let her practice with Dustin for a bit.  Fuuuuuuck.

Cool programs you didn't know you wanted: Punk vs Fish.  Nice.

God dammit JR please pay attention to the booking.  So they promote Shida/Deeb and JR says "Shida flat out got outwrestled in their match."  Now I can't remember specifics, but wasn't Deeb especially heelish in that bout and took shortcuts?  So then they show Shida jumping Deeb from behind.  That, combined with JR's dumb commentary, makes Shida a heel who jumped someone who beat her fair.  Ross needs some producing.

Like a dumbass, I wrote on Saturday that I liked seeing babyface asskicker Cody running off the heels on Friday, and that I can get behind that.  So then we get Homelander Cody again, same portrayal as always, and then he wins.  Holy shit.  This is two angles now (Black, Brodie) where it looked like Cody was doing the Rocky 3 thing, would be learning his lesson and coming back not so flashy, and ready to fight, and now twice it's been the same old shit.  I guess this is that 4D chess we keep hearing about.  HOPEFULLY this gets Black far away from the Cody Booking Vortex now.

OOOOOOF Archer lands on his head on a moonsault that would have overshot even if Eddie hadn't moved.  That was ugly.  Glad he's okay.  Can we maybe book Kingston as just a wee bit more of an asskicker instead of such a huge underdog?  I do agree they should have called the match off instead of having him roll back in for a perfunctory pin.

I liked Cody talking about how he was booed at Ashe because it's New York.  And then he gets booed out of the building in prime Florida Man territory.  Who said this was Bret and Canada?  Throw that idea out the window.

I really like the how we have two different groups (Jungle Dudes with Attitudes and The Dark Order) feuding with the Elite.  Makes it feel like a real interconnected world.

In a company booked toward fans who understand it's a work, Archer beating up fan plants is fucking dumb.  

Poor Rick Knox can't catch a  break as it took him six tries to get the comically large Knux out of the ring.

STOP TALKING DURING BLACK'S ENTRANCE

Cody has enough MOVEZ to not need to steal Dustin's powerslam and drop-down uppercut and it was really jarring to see them both on the same show.  Also, the Cody Cutter is garbage and I feel bad for a worker as great as Black to have to stand around like Raiden waiting for a fatality as Cody takes his sweet-ass time setting it up.

I'm happy the Cody Hate Train is back on track.  We were talking about Cody doing some meta heel shit, "let's wait and see how it plays out" a year ago.  At some point, he has to shit or get off the pot.  The argument that Cody's doing some meta inside baseball work, playing with our expectations, etc etc is so tiresome and, let me add, is some real Russo-ass shit.

I hope that Power Ranger shit he was wearing is actually Lio's in-ring gear!

I really do like Cody.  He's a damn good worker and a good promo, but you need to qualify both of those things, because both really suffer because he's so far up his own ass.  He was so good in that feud with the Inner Circle.  Can we get back to that? 

Edited by Technico Support
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So the comparison point for Cody isn't Jarrett, but is, once again, Cena? Build up heels to heat them up. Put them over him in match #1, have him win blow off. The point of building up the heel in the first place is to have the top star go over them. Afterwards, they still should have enough heat for a mid-card run.

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I watched some live, some on DVR. 

Really enjoyed Bryan/Dustin. Good wrestling, and felt like everyone here had good insights and descriptions.

Lots and lots of talking this week, especially early on. I FF'd through almost all of it, except the Britt Baker promo because I'm actually interested in her program.

I'm already incredibly bored of the Dan Lambert and MMA guys versus Inner Circle. I'm bored of Sting versus whatever MJF's thing is called.

Rose/Ford had the makings of a good match, with some good stretches marred by some poor execution. I like the idea of Ruby Soho but not sure I like her, and I do not like the whole tongue out thing. Tangential, I am not one to weirdly crush on women in wrestling but I like The Bunny.

The Archer/Kingston match did nothing for me, and the obvious crowd plant was bad. Eddie had poor placement on the spot, and then scooched even closer to the turnbuckle, so it was obviously going to be a miss, but I'm glad that Archer didn't get more seriously hurt. If this weren't a tournament, I think they just have the ref call it, but they had to have some kind of ending.

Jungle Boy versus Elite Jobber was a thing that happened. Nice spot off the stage, I'll suspend my disbelief regarding why two tables randomly set up there. Young Bucks as asshole heels is working for me. I want to see them get their asses kicked by someone bad.

Fish versus some dude was a thing that happened.

Cody versus Malakai had its moments. It's been discussed ad nauseum here but I'm one whose biggest problems was Cody no-selling, not that he kicked out or went over. I don't know, I have no real feelings towards either one as a relatively new viewer.

I will say that, while I know this is a brave new era where almost everyone who watches is at least semi-smart, the Rhodes to the Top show is not going to help when you have a behind-the-scenes scene right after an earlier Rhodes/Black match where the evil dark heel comes back stage and thanks Arn and Cody for giving him a rub, and how grateful he is.

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One final thing: how may TBS title tournament matches are going to be on TNT? If you're going to call it the TBS title (and I understand it's a secondary Women's title), then the matches should be on TBS.

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Like, I hate to break this to some of you, but Lance Archer should be a gatekeeper or something above a JTTS and Anthony Ogogo sucks and is practically blind.

I also don't quite get how Cody and Black wound up being rushed for time when Archer vs Eddie ended short because Archer turned himself into a human lawn dart. Them suddenly being short on time lead to Cody having an ultra fast recovery from Black's finisher to beat him. That wasn't the only problem with that match too. Andrade missed his cue, you had whatever the fuck it was with Lee Johnson and the other guy coming out to confront Black, then the stuff with Arn. This match was overbooked like crazy when the story just needed to be how low Cody would sink to defeat Black and Black losing the match, but winning the war. I would like to think that if they weren't short on time then Cody wouldn't have practically no sold the Black Mass. That was probably my biggest problem with the match and outcome, but they're just playing the hand they were dealt.

Actually, this all is a microcosm of my biggest problems with AEW. You have matches that get overbooked and people fucking up that make matches look awkward or rushed. I know it's not Tony because he's on the headset and running production, but what motherfucker consistently keeps missing when to send wrestlers out for run ins? And if that's not the issue and it's more of a matter of the wrestler not being in gorilla, then I suppose that is on Tony to tell these guys to be where they're supposed to be so people in the ring don't wind up looking like assholes. It's probably not, but I swear it feels like someone misses their cue every week. I may practically hate WWE for how much it sucks, but I'll at least give them credit for running backstage like a well oiled machine so people in the ring aren't standing around waiting for someone to run out.

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10 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I also don't quite get how Cody and Black wound up being rushed for time when Archer vs Eddie ended short because Archer turned himself into a human lawn dart. Them suddenly being short on time lead to Cody having an ultra fast recovery from Black's finisher to beat him.

Literally my first thought when this match went on last was, "why didn't they just put this on first?  They've been doing that with main events a lot lately."  One guess why they didn't.

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2 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Literally my first thought when this match went on last was, "why didn't they just put this on first?  They've been doing that with main events a lot lately."  One guess why they didn't.

Because it's not Rampage or a match they needed to guarantee hit the thirty minute mark? 

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That Soho match was bad.  What ever that rope throw Penelope did into a cutter move was horrible.  It looked like Soho dove into it.

It was nice not seeing Punk for a week then some dude in a hat ran out.  

Fish did nothing for me in NXT but I'm loving him here.  Bad ass entrance song as well.  Just let him get some wins.  

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18 minutes ago, romdam said:

That Soho match was bad.  What ever that rope throw Penelope did into a cutter move was horrible.  It looked like Soho dove into it.

It was nice not seeing Punk for a week then some dude in a hat ran out.  

Fish did nothing for me in NXT but I'm loving him here.  Bad ass entrance song as well.  Just let him get some wins.  

I didn't mind that use of Punk. Fans got to pop, he didn't spend 10 minutes boring me on the mic, and it set up a match for a reason instead of Punk vs. Someone because Punk.

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From my perspective Cody's stuff started getting bad when he started slumming it with guys that shouldn't even be on TV. Listen QT is a solid hand, does a shit ton behind the scenes, and is one of Cody's best friends. But Cody trying to help get QT over didn't work, and it brought Cody down quite a few levels. Same with shoe-horning all the trainees of their school into their groups. Consistently working with people below your own level for an extended period of time either brings them up or brings you down. And it backfired and brought Cody way down.

Cody also misses the mark because he wants to be 80s Dusty / 80s Hogan. Pure white knight going out doing traditional hero things. It's the 2020s. That's not what society wants anymore. His pro USA promos during a real low point in our political and moral standing in the world was about as tone-deaf as it gets as well and probably turned off a majority of AEW's target demo.

But Cody beating Archer or beating Black is not him holding them down. Archer as much as some of the poster here enjoy his work, is never going to be a star. He has a role and he plays it well. But he shouldn't be beating top of the card guys. His ceiling is the TNT Title and I don't even see him hitting that ever. Black is a little different because he is a star. But if you think one star losing to another star kills them dead, than either you don't understand wrestling or that guy wasn't a star to begin with. It's one loss in a 3 month program about Cody getting his mojo back.

Jarrett held the World Title for hundreds and hundreds of days, and almost never lost to anyone. Not even to start up a feud. It's frankly like comparing apples and turkey sandwiches. Zero commonality.

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I guess I don’t have the same problem with Cody that so many of you do.  But I do see that there are some problems.  I just can’t place them specifically.  Because if this really is a 4D chess thing and Cody is setting his character up for a big moment?  A lot of these criticisms may end up pointless in hindsight.

That being said.  I enjoyed the shit out of this show as I often do.  
 

Bryan kicked some ass.  Jungle Boy showed some big Dick energy.  The Bucks and Cole showed lots of small Dick energy.  Brandon Cutler is great in his role.

I love you AEW.  You’re my only hope.

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There's this belief that: Cody is working this deep metatextual thing where his tone deaf babyface act is really a heel act, and he's working all of us.  The fact that his whole presentation is so incongruous is just more proof that he knows exactly what he's doing.  And the smart fans are all dumb marks because we expect clear cut babyfaces and heels and he's working us.

Two things about that:

  • Eventually, Cody will turn full blown, regular-ass heel.  None of this shit will have added up but the people who believe in this "years long angle" will act like this was the plan all along.
  • If I made you a cake and then, just before you ate it, I kicked you in the balls and said, "haha!  You mark!  I'm doing something that has never been done before.  Your paradigm of the "getting a cake" artform is outdated!"  I'd just be an asshole.
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10 hours ago, eikerir said:

Cody did defeat big new monster Lance Archer to win the TV Title during Archer's first hot run (took Archer quite a while to recover) and also beat Anthony Ogogo who was built up as a big-ish deal for a bit just to be beaten by Cody.

Ogogo hasn't wrestled since so I think putting him over Cody would have been the error. 

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