Coletti Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 I'm certainly not stoked about Lethal being signed, since there are just tons of other people out there that don't come with that bullshit baggage, not to mention you're setting to piss off you're growing women's roster. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Just had the chance to catch up on this last night. Just skimmed this thread so I’ll probably repeat some talking points. Good show, if a little long. Four hours is just a bit too much for me. I think you could stand to trim a few minutes from multiple matches (and they’d probably be better for it). Mix up the pacing/match structures a bit (if everything is an epic then nothing is epic). And I’d have cut the Cody match from this. Darby/MJF - I really liked this. The big stuff all looked good as you expect from Darby, and there was some really well done counters. I think it made sense that it was worked fairly straight, rather than hate-filled as MJF thought he had a better chance in a straight wrestling match, and Darby was defiant that he wouldn’t let MJF break him mentally and would stick to his usual style (luckily Darby’s usual style is pretty aggressive anyway so there was still enough hate in it). I think this put over that MJF is actually a pretty good wrestler, but maybe a step behind Darby, and it’s his general dickishness (mind games, willingness to cheat) added onto his wrestling skills that make him dangerous. If I was to fault this, I’d say the sequencing towards the end felt a bit-off, having the slightly goofy pin exchange after the big tombstone spot didn’t really work for me. Wasn’t really into the tag title match. I was only half paying attention to the first few minutes so maybe I missed something, but it just felt like there was no structure - no obvious heat segment and no particular story to get into. Plenty of good looking stuff, but it just seemed like one long finishing stretch. It was more FTR plugged into a Lucha Bros match, and I think the opposite would be a lot better. Miro/Danielson - really good, in hindsight it probably worked that the finish was so sloppy looking, sold the danger of what Danielson was doing. Miro is probably the best vulnerable monster around currently and Danielson kind of has the opposite thing going where he’s sort of naturally vulnerable as a smaller guy, but he comes across as a killer and a realistic threat no matter the opponent. Street fight was good fun mostly, maybe could have been a bit shorter, but good finish, and they used plenty of breakups rather than kick outs off big spots. It didn’t particularly bother me here, but it struck me in the MJF match that he’s a much more interesting version of Cole. I’d say the characters/wrestlers are ballpark similar (sleazebag heel, who’s solid-good but no obvious standout skills), but MJF just projects his character into his work much better. Cole will bump big and take a beating, as he demonstrated here, but I find that he generally works far too evenly for a cowardly heel. One example I’ve noticed is his reliance on ‘you charge at me and I’ll kick you’ as his go-to cut off. I think he did that 3 times in this match. It’s just totally uninteresting. Cheat, be more of a dick. Cody tag was solid enough, using the reluctant partners thing to add a bit story, but I just didn’t care. What were the stakes here? Why should I care if PAC and Cody can get along? Neither are particularly likeable ATM. It felt like it was building to an angle, which didn’t happen. Could have done this on TV. And what was with that weird post-match attack of Cash getting in like 2 shots? I do think there’s interesting things you can do with Cody as heel who thinks he’s a face, but this isn’t it. It feels like it’s in limbo ATM, it needs to be better defined. I don’t think any of the other guys benefited from being involved in this. There’s a larger narrative being told with Cody but it almost seems independent of who he’s actually in there with. Womens title was a match. I think the thing about Conti being hugely improved/WWE dropping the ball on her has been overstated. I like when she leans into the more unique looking judo throw stuff, but still a way to go to put it all together. Her shocked face after every kick out throughout the match was pretty annoying (as an aside, that should mainly be a heel trait to sell the toughness of the face, not the opposite). And that’s kinda my main criticism of Baker, similar to Cole and in spite of her cheating, she works too strong for a coward heel. She kicked out of both of Conti’s finishers here, plus the new potential finish of the Gotch piledriver (making it feel a bit anti-climactic straight off). Punk/Kingston was a just a really good fight. This was relatively short but was totally satisfying for what it was trying to do. Selling by both was great and the exhaustion felt much more earned here, despite the comparative shortness. Guerrero spot felt a bit misplaced, but the Cena spot was a great fuck you. Like Punk has earned the right to do that cos, unlike Kingston, he made it and fought stars like Cena. I didn’t actually realise until this started, but having two multi-man street fights was a bit of a daft decision. Working the first 5-10 of this as a straight tag was equally strange, I’d have preferred if they just kept the tag format for this, even if they allowed weapons. Some ok stuff, but a bit of a mess and not as fun as the earlier street fight. I’ve little interest in Jericho and crew currently, the younger Inner Circle guys really need to get away from it. Main was good, I think I’d rate the opener, Punk, and Danielson matches higher though. I was a bit tired at this point so I was maybe a bit less invested. I just hope (and assume) the Bucks bit is leading to a splintering of The Elite rather than a face turn for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 145k buys for Full Gear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Is that ... good? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 18 minutes ago, Dog said: Is that ... good? Google tells me that All Out was around 200k and Full Gear 2020 was around 100k. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Dave Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 47 minutes ago, Matt D said: Google tells me that All Out was around 200k and Full Gear 2020 was around 100k. All Out had cm punks first match in 7 years and 3 big debuts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Just now, just drew said: All Out had cm punks first match in 7 years and 3 big debuts. They're stupid not to do that on every PPV! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Full Gear has been the lowest bought ppv of the year for them in both 2019 and 2020. I think 145 is a really damn good number if it's accurate. Their success rate of turning weekly viewers into ppv purchasers has been maybe their biggest strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 I do think Bleacher Report cost them some buys. Not enough to move the needle too much, but it was an issue. No play from beginning option for those of us who couldn’t start live. You couldn’t navigate the website to purchase a replay without having the card spoiled. When they finally did get the show archived 24 hours after the fact, I didn’t even have to log in to watch it! A bunch of folks got it for free on Sunday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eikerir Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 (edited) BR sounds like a nightmare over there, the Fite TV experience couldn’t be smoother here, never had any issues. Edited November 18, 2021 by eikerir 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriskbrown50 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 10 hours ago, Brian Fowler said: Full Gear has been the lowest bought ppv of the year for them in both 2019 and 2020. I think 145 is a really damn good number if it's accurate. Their success rate of turning weekly viewers into ppv purchasers has been maybe their biggest strength. if it is indeed absolutely 50% more than last year that's a big growth. Plus some nice change in the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 9 hours ago, eikerir said: BR sounds like a nightmare over there, the Fite TV experience couldn’t be smoother here, never had any issues. I certainly didn't use a VPN and buy it for $20 instead of $50 personally... 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 ***** for the Trios Tag! WTF, Dave?! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiztor Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 12 hours ago, The Natural said: ***** for the Trios Tag! WTF, Dave?! elite bias in full effect 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matwarz Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 I generally tend to fall in line with Dave’s ratings, but listening to him talk about the show I knew he was going to be off the mark. Ultimately it’s about one viewers perspective. I would have said: MJF vs Darby Allin: 4 3/4 FTR vs Lucha Bros: 3 3/4 Danielson vs Miro:4 1/4 SuperKliq vs Jurassic Express/Christian: 4 Cody/PAC vs Andrade/Black: 4 Baker vs Conti: 3 1/4 CM Punk vs Kingston: 4 1/2 Inner Circle vs American Top Team: 3 3/4 Hangman vs Omega: 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Z Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 On 11/20/2021 at 2:19 AM, The Natural said: ***** for the Trios Tag! WTF, Dave?! Really liked the trios match live, but I am a personally a big fan of the over the top AEW matches. Not quite sure if I would go the full five stars for it, but it would give it at least 4 1/2 or 4 3/4. I actually could not see Bucks' reactions in the main event live, but that added to the story for me (again though, I have been a consistent BTE viewer for most of the Bucks time in AEW). I could hear an argument for the MJF/Darby opener, trios match, Punk/Kingston, and the main event being the best match on the crowd, but ultimately slightly prefer the main because of the awesome conclusion to the story. Full Gear uniquely felt like both the beginning and end of an era. It wrapped up the Hangman/Kenny stories, MJF winning the battle of the young top guns (and looking like a serious, upper card worker), and The Elite finally getting their comeuppance for the last year's worth of shenanigans. However, it was also the first PPV with the new, deep roster where every match was really good (three stars or above), with the depth of talent ensuring amazing match quality throughout the card. Interestingly enough, Adam Cole was actually the most popular guy live (at least for entrance pop) among the three big recent additions, and there is meat on the bone for both Punk and especially Danielson heel runs (the Miro/Danielson match wasn't a dud live by any means, but definitely not as hot as the previous four matches mentioned above). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 (edited) Really cool watch. Edited November 22, 2021 by The Natural 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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