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UFC 167: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks (11/16/2013) - Las Vegas, NV (MGM Grand Garden Arena)


Elsalvajeloco

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I really know the answer to this question, but why does Dana have his panties in such a twist that GSP wants to take some time off? If his heart's not in fighting right now for whatever reason, he shouldn't have to fight, even if a rematch wiith Hendricks is a license to print money. If he doesn't wanna make that money, so what?

 

That said, he should formally retire and give up the belt. Then if he wants to come back, he's a challenger. No interim champions while he finds his smile.

 

Of course, if this is all bargaining tactic on GSP's part, in the words of Emily Latella, "never mind."

 

I'd say Dana has his panties in a twist because GSP isn't willing to do that ie give up the belt. I think GSP wants his cake and to eat it too. He wants to go away for a year or two but doesn't want to give up the belt.

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A lot of people seem to be judging the fight on the fact that GSP's face was a mess, but facial damage is not part of scoring a fight under the current rules.

 

If you don't take physical debilitation into consideration, then what constitutes "effective striking" in MMA?  Even the "legal strike" verbage seems vague to me.  What good is it to land a blow if your opponant doesn't eventually show the effects of multiple strikes?

 

I would hope that MMA would fall into the bunches of punches trap that Boxing tripped years ago.  If Volume <> Damage then it is not "effecting striking" IMO, but I don't write the rules or get paid to interpret them.

 

As bad as I feel for Hendricks, he only has himself to blame.  Never leave a championship decision in the judges' collective hands.  Win your belt by pounding out the champ.

 

 

A fight ending cut or a completely closed eye is one thing. Small marks, bruises and cuts are totally different. None of the damage that Hendricks did to GSP was fight ending, it was merely a product of GSP's thin skin. A good example of this is the Fedor/Cro Cop fight back in the Pride days. Fedor won the fight, easily. But at the end of the fight he looked like he went through a meat grinder, while Cro Cop didn't look much worse for wear. If you were to just show people that didn't see the fight pictures of them from after the fight and ask "who won?" 10 out of 10 people would pick Cro Cop.  Aside from fight ending damage, facial cuts/bruises/marks don't always tell the story of the fight.

 

So many people were just quick to jump on the images of GSP after the fight and say "see he, lost!" when really it was much closer than their physical appearances from after the fight would suggest.

 

 

Stats support your argument.  The numbers say that Johnny's strikes didn't have that much of a debilitating effect on GSP since GSP scored two takedowns in the Champtionship Round against a guy whose takedown defense is very respectable. 

 

I still think that judges still tend to give the champ more consideration in close rounds.

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It's par for the course for him though so it wasn't like it was a breath of fresh air or anything.  He whined about not getting a title shot for quite a while and still whined after he actually did get a title shot all the way until he actually fought.  It was only natural that he'd whine in every post fight interview about not winning the fight. 

 

This is one of the problems with UFC Fighters, they don't understand how to promote themselves. I watch a ton of UFC, but there are still some fighters I have never heard of, case in point: Lamas. The first time I heard of this guy, I was reading an interview and he was complaining about how he should be number one contender and fight Aldo. So my first impression of the guy is him whining? There is a HUGE difference between being a heel like Chael and complaining everytime you get a chance ( leading up to the Silva fight) and being entertaining in the process and actually drawing money vs. being 100% vanilla and just begging for a title shot all the while have NO FANS and doing NOTHING to get fans.

Aldo if the worse PPV drawing champ since UFC 100 (of the top 10 lowest PPV buys- Aldo has 3 of them). Aldo doesn't need to face a vanilla crybaby like Lamas...he needs a good adversary who can promo. A lot of fighters need to take Courture's words and learn how to market themselves.

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It's par for the course for him though so it wasn't like it was a breath of fresh air or anything.  He whined about not getting a title shot for quite a while and still whined after he actually did get a title shot all the way until he actually fought.  It was only natural that he'd whine in every post fight interview about not winning the fight. 

 

This is one of the problems with UFC Fighters, they don't understand how to promote themselves. I watch a ton of UFC, but there are still some fighters I have never heard of, case in point: Lamas. The first time I heard of this guy, I was reading an interview and he was complaining about how he should be number one contender and fight Aldo. So my first impression of the guy is him whining? There is a HUGE difference between being a heel like Chael and complaining everytime you get a chance ( leading up to the Silva fight) and being entertaining in the process and actually drawing money vs. being 100% vanilla and just begging for a title shot all the while have NO FANS and doing NOTHING to get fans.

Aldo if the worse PPV drawing champ since UFC 100 (of the top 10 lowest PPV buys- Aldo has 3 of them). Aldo doesn't need to face a vanilla crybaby like Lamas...he needs a good adversary who can promo. A lot of fighters need to take Courture's words and learn how to market themselves.

 

You sir are 100% correct, one of the craziest things about the fallout of UFC 167 is that GSP is usually one of the best at staying on message and keeping himself marketable.  For someone who is pretty much a charisma vacuum, he has been on of the biggest draws by being the guy who never says anything he doesn't have to, and taking the high road when people shit talk him.  Then throw in natural heels like BJ Penn and Nick Diaz and he is almost impossible to root against(yes, I know that there are plenty of GSP haters, but the majority of the buying public love the guy).  The whole awkward I need to step away for a while thing seems so out of character for him, that I think I'm more surprised that he said anything than disappointed that we won't be getting an immediate rematch.  Hopefully this is not some long term injury or family thing, and ends up being just the rantings of a increasingly strange guy. 

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The dust is semi-settled but I'll add my 2 cents. I scored the fight 3-2 to GSP and all rounds were 10-9, also I thought that Hendricks won the fight.

 

think that this fight, plus all the previous controversial decisions, just proves that the scoring system needs an overall change, not just .5 and such shitty tinkering.

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The dust is semi-settled but I'll add my 2 cents. I scored the fight 3-2 to GSP and all rounds were 10-9, also I thought that Hendricks won the fight.

 

think that this fight, plus all the previous controversial decisions, just proves that the scoring system needs an overall change, not just .5 and such shitty tinkering.

 

This is likely really stupid but how can you score the fight 3-2 to GSP  but say you thought Hendricks won the fight?

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The dust is semi-settled but I'll add my 2 cents. I scored the fight 3-2 to GSP and all rounds were 10-9, also I thought that Hendricks won the fight.

 

think that this fight, plus all the previous controversial decisions, just proves that the scoring system needs an overall change, not just .5 and such shitty tinkering.

 

This is likely really stupid but how can you score the fight 3-2 to GSP  but say you thought Hendricks won the fight?

 

Winning three rounds isn't winning the "fight". Chael won 4, Anderson won 1.

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The dust is semi-settled but I'll add my 2 cents. I scored the fight 3-2 to GSP and all rounds were 10-9, also I thought that Hendricks won the fight.

 

think that this fight, plus all the previous controversial decisions, just proves that the scoring system needs an overall change, not just .5 and such shitty tinkering.

 

This is likely really stupid but how can you score the fight 3-2 to GSP  but say you thought Hendricks won the fight?

 

Yeah. I'm sorry.

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No, it makes sense.  It's one fight in reality but in scoring terms it's actually five separate fights that have nothing to do with one another.  The flaw is the scoring system.  They don't utilize the numbers to accurately reflect the difference between Hendricks winning the second round and GSP winning the first round.  They are scored the same and they really only ever use 10-9 so a fight that goes to decision is essentially how many rounds you won versus how many your opponent won.  Can you imagine how stupid it would be if the NBA and NFL scored the final winner of their games by how many quarters each team won? Yeah, that's what we have in fighting. 

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Can you imagine how stupid it would be if the NBA and NFL scored the final winner of their games by how many quarters each team won? Yeah, that's what we have in fighting. 

 

Is it stupid that tennis matches are based on who won the most sets rather than who won the most games or points?

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I think part of the problem is that you have to almost murder someone to get a 10-8 round. They don't properly use the numbers they have, how is giving them more numbers (half points) going to help the situation?

I understand what everyone is saying, but was round two or four more one sided towards Hendricks than round three was for GSP.  Hendricks spent the whole round getting punched in the face.  Hendricks hurt GSP with punches in 2 and 4, but GSP was trying to be competitive in both.  Hendricks might as well of stayed on the stool for round three.  The rules aren't perfect, but I don't think making more 10-8s is the answer to this particular fight.  Call me crazy, but I think all of these rounds were legit 10-9 rounds, both guys clearly won rounds, but neither were ever in any real danger of being finished.  I think a 10-8 should be a round where a guy is at least knocked down, mounted(seriously, positional grappling should be scored better), or close to being submitted.  The punches that hurt GSP were really good punches, but if a guy is capable of tying his opponent up and waiting it out I don't think it should be 10-8. 

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Open scoring after each round would help. Imagine if both guys knew the fight was tied going into the 5th round.

 

Hendricks would not have coasted that round, that's for sure...

 

It's probably the easiest change they could make and wouldn't require a complete overall of the scoring system or rules.

 

Texas allows open scoring and has used it for some WBC title fights in boxing (notably Canelo/Trout). Glory Kickboxing has used open scoring as well.

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Open scoring after each round would help. Imagine if both guys knew the fight was tied going into the 5th round.

 

Hendricks would not have coasted that round, that's for sure...

Do we know that?  I don't think he coasted in the 5th, it was the second most competitive round other than the 1st.  I know the fight left a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of people, but what we are really talking about is a very closely contested fight between two world class fighters.  I think the rounds that Hendricks won look more impressive, because he punches harder not necessarily because he was better.  The rounds GSP won(other than one) were more impressive technique wise, he just didn't hurt Hendricks.  If he would have stunned him with one of those shots we wouldn't be having this conversation.  This is a prizefight, not a hard punching competition.

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Open scoring after each round would help. Imagine if both guys knew the fight was tied going into the 5th round.

 

Hendricks would not have coasted that round, that's for sure...

Do we know that?  I don't think he coasted in the 5th, it was the second most competitive round other than the 1st.  I know the fight left a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of people, but what we are really talking about is a very closely contested fight between two world class fighters.  I think the rounds that Hendricks won look more impressive, because he punches harder not necessarily because he was better.  The rounds GSP won(other than one) were more impressive technique wise, he just didn't hurt Hendricks.  If he would have stunned him with one of those shots we wouldn't be having this conversation.  This is a prizefight, not a hard punching competition.

 

 

I agree that GSP won 1,3,5, I just think if both guys knew the score round by round it could have changed how the fight played out.

 

Not necessarily in this fight, but in MMA in general you see guys coast through round 3 if they've won rounds 1 and 2, or even worse both guys coast at the end cause their corners have told them they're winning the fight. Well if everyone knew the score round by round, one guy might be trying to coast cause he's ahead, but the other guy is going to be trying to take his head off or trying for dear life to get a sub cause it's the only way he can win.

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I'm not a fan of implementing half points.  We already have 7 other points that don't get used.  We might as well call this a 3 point must system. 

 

 

Can you imagine how stupid it would be if the NBA and NFL scored the final winner of their games by how many quarters each team won? Yeah, that's what we have in fighting. 

 

Is it stupid that tennis matches are based on who won the most sets rather than who won the most games or points?

 

 

They could play for two hours and award the winner via coinflip for all I care.    

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Open scoring after each round would help. Imagine if both guys knew the fight was tied going into the 5th round.

 

Hendricks would not have coasted that round, that's for sure...

Do we know that?  I don't think he coasted in the 5th, it was the second most competitive round other than the 1st.

 

We don't know for sure, I doubt he would admit to it, but Hendricks' corner was telling him something like "You just gotta get through this round and you're the champ."

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The corner does a disservice to the fighter so many times.  So often you see a round that one guy wins clearly and then in the other guys corner they're telling him "you got that round." 

 

Exactly. That's the biggest thing open scoring would help.

 

“You won the first two rounds, you can coast this round!” – Advice given to Brian Caraway (by Miesha) prior to the start of the third round of his fight with Takeya Mizugaki. Caraway would then lose the bout via split decision.

 

Shit like that is the worst.

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The corner does a disservice to the fighter so many times.  So often you see a round that one guy wins clearly and then in the other guys corner they're telling him "you got that round." 

 

Agreed. More honesty is needed...but then you have to hope the judges scored that round correctly.

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Agreed. More honesty is needed...but then you have to hope the judges scored that round correctly.

 

 

Makes me think, if you have open scoring, and there's a WTF decision on one particular round in the middle of the fight, that probably messes with a guy's mindset.

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