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AEW - OCT 2021


The Natural

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9 minutes ago, Goodear said:

You can also make the loss a demonstration of a weakness of Cargill's character and provide her with a Achilles Heel like a weak ankle or being susceptible to a certain pinning combination. This is really just a continuation of Miro being weak to the DDT and you can build a psychology around that weakness.

As long as it's not being victory rolled out of Jaded. I know it's pro wrestling but it's your finisher you know what the counter is.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, RunningFromAmerica said:

As long as it's not being victory rolled out of Jaded. I know it's pro wrestling but it's your finisher you know what the counter is.

Eh, I'd let it go one time since Jade is arrogant and probably does not believe anyone can counter Jaded and then BANG~! it happens.  And we've also grabbed another booking angle from Miro / Sammy where Jade's hubris contributes to her defeat.

After that, Jade should have the experience to know that her finisher can be countered and be prepared for it.  Fool me once, etc.

Edited by J.T.
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2 minutes ago, RunningFromAmerica said:

As long as it's not being victory rolled out of Jaded. I know it's pro wrestling but it's your finisher you know what the counter is.

 

 

Agreed, I would be cool with a less standard counter like a drop toe hold into a La Magistral. 

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26 minutes ago, Goodear said:

Agreed, I would be cool with a less standard counter like a drop toe hold into a La Magistral. 

So this isn't as helpful as you'd think, but is, instead, awesome, as Casas just veers off from the initial question by going on about how he knows all the secrets and has mastered the physics and knows the timing and opportunity of when to do it once a guy is worn down, etc. And that's what I picked up on without even actually knowing Spanish.

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44 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Seeing this reminds me of Fat Spanish Waiter. I hope he's well.

leave it to @The Naturalto think of FSW in a positive light. Love your optimism, buddy!

 

edit: Crowbar on Dark: Elevation ?!? add him to the list with Juventud of Christopher Daniels of wrestlers who've had a televised match for WWF, WCW, ECW, TNA, and AEW.   
double edit: i just looked at his Wikipedia page, and it lists him as being "the only wrestler to have wrestled matches in WWE, WCW, ECW, TNA, and AEW"  good try, wiki.

Edited by twiztor
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2 hours ago, supremebve said:

Yes and no.  A loss should mean something, and her first loss especially should mean something.  That is why I believe if she loses in the tournament it needs to be a loss to the eventual winner of the tournament.  That loss should not only mean something to the winner, but also to Cargill.  Cargill should go on another long run, where the overarching story told through her promos and the play-by-play needs to be focused on her getting her win back.  The first champion needs to be put over strong, but the shadow of Cargill's revenge also needs to be put over.  Cargill needs to be destroying everyone in her path on her way back up to get her title shot, and the champion needs to be winning hard fought victories.  Make it so the champion is gaining credibility by winning, but Cargill is gaining credibility by destroying every woman in her path.  When she finally wins the title it needs to be a close competitive match that makes the former champion look like a deserving champion, but Cargill comes off looking great because she didn't fold when she was finally faced with a tough challenge.  There you go, one loss that means something to the winner and the loser.  Tell the story that beating Jade Cargill made the champion a star, and the loss lit a fire under Cargill's ass that made her a better wrestler. 

Diminishing returns. Beating Cargill now ultimately means nothing, because ultimately she has achieved nothing. Equivalent to beating an undefeated boxer who has ran through cans - they are not memorable. As yet, Cargill has proven nothing narratively of substance, because she quite literally has won no prize-fight championships. Cargill doesn't need to be in the tournament: if she is, it should be Lesnar KOTR 02 territory. 'Revenge runs' are most effective where the runner is recovering a prize .. in real world terms think Fury coming back after his own self-exile / deterioration following the Klitschko bout. For PW equivalents look at the runs of Lesnar/Goldberg .. and what they demonstratively achieved before going down. Whether Cargill is deserving of such a push is a different conversation point, but if that is the direction they want to lead with her as the aesthetic monster of the division you let her achieve something before she goes down. Her persona & presentation at the moment is not one that needs a fire lit under her ass; that is not how she is presented. If she takes the prize then becomes complacent (eases on training / toys too much in bouts etc), then you switch the presentation that way, have the prize snatched, and lead her on a re-building journey.

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6 hours ago, AxB said:

The contrasting approach that Santana & Ortiz, and FTR take to their squash matches is quite bizarre. How S&O just eat people alive and give them nothing, whilst FTR give the enhancement talent everything. Bump and sell, stooge for them, have to cheat to get on offense even.

It is not surprising that FTR works matches against jobbers that way since it is the Midnight Express formula.

FTR = students of the game.

Edited by J.T.
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So the TK counter to wwe adding a commercial free half hour is to start 1 hour earlier with mystery opponents for danielson and for fish…but it’s on YouTube. So it’s just a move to try to hurt the smackdown viewership (although it will be minimal). 
 

When nitro went head to head with raw, and both shows took off eventually, they would counter program each other but it felt like a race to the top. These moves here just feel like a race to the bottom. Like you’re only trying to hurt the other company without helping yourself (I know, announcing results, etc). Feels like there’s only losers here though. 

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43 minutes ago, matt925 said:

So the TK counter to wwe adding a commercial free half hour is to start 1 hour earlier with mystery opponents for danielson and for fish…but it’s on YouTube. So it’s just a move to try to hurt the smackdown viewership (although it will be minimal). 
 

When nitro went head to head with raw, and both shows took off eventually, they would counter program each other but it felt like a race to the top. These moves here just feel like a race to the bottom. Like you’re only trying to hurt the other company without helping yourself (I know, announcing results, etc). Feels like there’s only losers here though. 

So wait, we're getting an extra Danielson match? And you don't feel like a winner?

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53 minutes ago, matt925 said:

So the TK counter to wwe adding a commercial free half hour is to start 1 hour earlier with mystery opponents for danielson and for fish…but it’s on YouTube. So it’s just a move to try to hurt the smackdown viewership (although it will be minimal). 
 

When nitro went head to head with raw, and both shows took off eventually, they would counter program each other but it felt like a race to the top. These moves here just feel like a race to the bottom. Like you’re only trying to hurt the other company without helping yourself (I know, announcing results, etc). Feels like there’s only losers here though. 

I think there is probably an attempt to hurt the second hour Smackdown demo here (I should probably leave that topic alone lol), but ultimately he's probably reacting to the fact that Punk vs Garcia didn't draw and that it is looking like AEW will get beaten handily. Ultimately yeah maybe people shouldn't care but he set them up to expect 'victory' and now...Khan's going to go all out and basically give you an extra Dynamite instead. Sounds good.

Edited by RunningFromAmerica
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8 minutes ago, Matt D said:

So wait, we're getting an extra Danielson match? And you don't feel like a winner?

For the 2k people in attendance it’s definitely a winner. For me it’s not doing much. We’ll see the number live but maybe like 50k people are going to be watching that match, and it’s not going to translate to rampage. If he could’ve started the broadcast on tnt at 9pm that would be a different story. This is just a move to try to diminish the smackdown audience by a tiny amount. Just doesn’t seem like the way to go to me. 

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This is a guy who I am very happy for:

Talisman really jumped out for me on the 80s set too, between his cool pancake offense and this mask:

TALISMAN&HIJODELGLADIADOR.JPG

You get disappointed later with Hijo Del Gladiador matches in the 90s and the office stuff later, but he's a guy you want slotted in a random 80s lucha trios.

ANYWAY, let's see how the guy does against Bobby Fish in his biggest showcase yet for AEW. He definitely looked good against FTR.

I hope he does this:

w0kNQX.gif

I feel like a winner.

Edited by Matt D
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30 minutes ago, matt925 said:

For the 2k people in attendance it’s definitely a winner. For me it’s not doing much. We’ll see the number live but maybe like 50k people are going to be watching that match, and it’s not going to translate to rampage. If he could’ve started the broadcast on tnt at 9pm that would be a different story. This is just a move to try to diminish the smackdown audience by a tiny amount. Just doesn’t seem like the way to go to me. 

I don’t think the expectation is to diminish Smackdown in any notable way, but rather to get AEW trending on socials ahead of Rampage, so people remember that its live this week and it doesn’t get lost in the Becky/Sasha hype. Not too different from the infamous Khan-on-Khan promo ahead of a Friday Dynamite. Just getting the show trending in advance.

Edited by EVA
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