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October 2021 Wrestling Discussion


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I am just gonna mention this here so someone doesn't go "Why is no one talking about it?"

Ring of Honor announced they are taking the first quarter of 2022 off and will return in April 2022 with a "reimagining"

For discussion and full details see the ROH thread

 

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2 minutes ago, Swift said:

I think I'd limit it to "there has to be a wrestling ring setup" otherwise yeah BJPW and DDT and the like would dominate.

There was a show at a "house party" where Rina Yamashita had a match with someone that involved a liplock and a very NSFW pin attempt.

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45 minutes ago, Swift said:

What are some of the strangest venues/locations wrestling shows have taken place in?

I'll start with this one - https://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=288421

 I attended this show at the Amsterdam Brewery in Toronto - https://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=25478

The ring was upstairs and the bar was downstairs and the upstairs wasn't licensed so you could only drink downstairs. I spent a lot of time downstairs but I do remember the hair vs hair match between a completely bald Bobby Clancy who I'm pretty sure didn't know he'd be working that day since he was in normal clothes vs a Hulk Hogan impersonator with barely more hair than Bobby. It went about 3 minutes thankfully. The cattle prod in the cattle prod match didn't work so they had to fake being shocked. The dog collar match and the Murder Junkies vs Flatliners were far and away the best matches on the show with the tag match ending with Bill Skullion wrapping a t-shirt around his hand, lighting it on fire and punching Matt Burns (which made sense considering his name) and the cage taking about 30-40 minutes to set up for a 10 minute match with no blood. 

Indy wrestling!

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Cheech, Slim J and Jody Fleisch all work regularly. I think Cloudy still does shows around Buffalo. Mellow is Sal Rinauro who works for the NWA and I've seen Deranged and Azreial pop up in random results.

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8 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

"Yeah this person has treated their co-workers poorly but forget about that what about this person over here?"  isn't much of a defense.. 

Especially here because everyone has taken shots at Orton for years on this board and much of it was deserved. Nobody is 'ok' with things that Orton has done in the past. He has seemed to mature some so maybe that's why the discussions have cooled down. 

I have to laugh at the "Charlotte and Becky are trying to help Bianca get over" reports from these news sites.

Bianca didn't need help. She main evented WrestleMania and captured the title only to have her legs cut out. That's not to say either of them are at fault because who knows what's been said. Did Becky tell management no I don't want to pin Bianca in 26 seconds and then rub it in every week? Probably not.. but creative is incredibly dumb for doing it.

 

This is a bad response. I didn't say BUT WADDABOUT ORTON as a way to defend Charlotte. I said that Orton gets less flack for being dangerous (nearly killing a Bollywood Boy) or unprofessional (STUPID! STUPID!) or generally just a shithead (asking Soulja Boy about his baby's mamas even though *gasp* dude is childless, so why would you make a statement like that?) on the wider internet. Not here, so why you're focused on this board, I don't know. 

Wait, I do know. You didn't understand what you read and responded in a way that makes no sense. 

Go back and try it again. 

Anyway, that Orton gets less flack on the wider internet than Charlotte means that Stefanie probably has a point in regards to the wider internet

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"WWE books wrestler as unbeatable babyface superhuman, wrestling fans resent it and start disliking wrestler. Wrestler is booked to win all the time, be eternal Champion (or be above the belt if they don't have it) fans resent them more. Heels booked to face them get over as babyfaces because of it".

Not exactly a story we've only lived through once, is it?

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19 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Not here, so why you're focused on this board, I don't know. 

Why i am focused on the board:  

 

1. We are on the board. 

2. The discussion was brought to the board.

3. The posts clearly stated "you all"  and "here" 

4. i only post here 

5. i'm not heavy on the wider internet.  Should i be? 

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3 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Why i am focused on the board:  

 

1. We are on the board. 

2. The discussion was brought to the board.

3. The posts clearly stated "you all"  and "here" 

4. i only post here 

5. i'm not heavy on the wider internet.  Should i be? 

OK, well, I believe the conversation was not focused on only the board, so if you're not interested in the crux of the conversation, don't respond to me with a bunch of random irrelevant stuff, maybe? Thanks, man. 

Also RoH is dead finally, I guess? 

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4 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

OK, well, I believe the conversation was not focused on only the board, so if you're not interested in the crux of the conversation, don't respond to me with a bunch of random irrelevant stuff, maybe? Thanks, man.

i can't promise but i will try.  Shame what happened to ROH. When i attended the ROH/NJPW show at MSG i wouldn't have guessed that they'd fall off so fast.. 

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4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

I'm not a worker but I think it's stupid, abusive, and cowardly to hit someone for real in 1) in a worked sport and 2) when they're not expecting it, just because they made a mistake.  Look, I think Tom Cruise is a nutjob and a real asshole.  If he got mad at another actor and decided to "take liberties" during a fight scene to put that actor in line, that would be some bullshit.  If I got pissy at a coworker and decided to solve it with a sucker punch, I'd lose my job.  "Wrestling works differently" is, in my opinion, some old time carny bullshit used to justify all manner of awfulness.  Lio Rush getting a "bad rep" because he didn't want to sacrifice his dignity and carry someone's bags.  All the women who came out with harassment and assault stories last year.  All the Rougeau/Hennig/Bulldogs stupid ass bullshit we talked about in the Viceland thread.  All the perpetrators in those and many other stories of abuse fell back on "that's just wrestling."  It's childish and absurd in 2021.

Comparing apples and turkey sandwiches my dude. Wrestling is scripted but it isn't fake. I say that to say, comparing it to a Tom Cruise movie that is 100% fake is not a fair comparison. He does his own stunts and his own fight scenes right? But that's not the same as doing a live performance where you have to make contact. So you're already getting hit for real. Just ratcheting up the intensity is not abuse. How many people here love the snug Regal / Finlay style? Dude they really hit you. Hard as fuck. They aren't aiming to hurt anyone. They're aiming to look legitimate. Same as a wake up shot. You're not trying to hurt someone. You're trying to get them back on track. A non-verbal cue to get it together.

Trying to compare a live pro wrestling performance to a taped movie or an regular office job is just being intentionally obtuse. The closet thing I can think of to compare it to is sparring at an MMA gym / martial arts gym. They go in knowing they are fighting, but not trying to hurt their partner. But there's contact. It's inherent with what you're doing. If you're fucking up you're gonna get checked. You know that and accept that by doing it in the first place.

 

4 hours ago, supremebve said:

I disagree with this pretty strongly.  There is a difference between being tough with someone and being abusive.  I played football, done some judo and jiu jitsu, and there is never a reason to physically abuse someone to get your point across.  You don't really get the Charlotte thing without the abusive environment.  I don't know if she knew Sane had a concussion or not, but if hitting people in the head when they make a mistake isn't an accepted part of an abusive culture, it probably doesn't happen.  I remember my sister telling me a story about a teacher conference she had with my niece's sister.  Her teacher brought up the fact that my niece said, "My mom's going to beat me," when she got in trouble in class.  The teacher, who didn't think she was serious, still decided to bring it up when she talked to my sister.  My sister told her, "No, I've never put my hands on my children, but I threaten to do it all the time."  It's a physical activity, and there is a potential for people to get hurt when they get sloppy, but there is a way to communicate that you need someone to straighten the fuck up without actually physically abusing the person.  Wrestling culture as a whole is toxic, we've been talking about it on this board for over a decade.  Excusing the behavior just pushes that toxic behavior down to the next generation, when you could address it and stop it now so it doesn't continue.

This board is known for it's love of good punches right? Like Terry Funk, excellent punches. Guess why they are excellent. Because they're fucking real. Ask Mick Foley about it. He's went into detail with why Funk's punches are so good. I know you're just one person and don't represent the entire board. But it's this kind of playing both sides thinking that frustrates me. So when Terry Funk punches someone as hard as he can and it looks awesome, that's great everyone praises him. But when a strike is used to correct a mistake it's all of a sudden somehow this reprehensible thing that is abusive and toxic or whatever. Again this is pro wrestling. We know what we're signing up for when we start. Some people can handle the physicality. Some can't. But my point is there is absolutely zero difference between a regular (stiff AF) Suzuki forearm, and a Suzuki forearm he brings the heat on if you fuck up a spot. It's all contact. It's all real. To clutch pearls over one kind vs the other is being pedantic.

 

 

4 hours ago, just drew said:

I'm gonna say a couple things, then I'm gonna leave this topic alone.

First of all, I 100% believe we live in a time where it's no longer necessary to "work through an injury" or give someone a "wake up" slap midmatch. I will admit that part of my sharp reaction to this practice is because I had to walk away from a promising football career early in college because I was pressured to play through nerve damage in my shoulder in high school. It wasn't until I started losing feeling in my left arm that I was able to see a specialist. The injury was far worse than I was told.  I felt obligated to play through it. It's been 20 years and I still don't have 100% utility. It's enough to play guitar and do other things that I enjoy, but there will always be a reminder. That's why I have zero patience for folks saying "it's just how it's done." It fucking shouldn't be.

I'm sorry you had to deal with that pressure in college. But this has nothing to do with this conversation. You're projecting a personal issue you had to go through into a subject that isn't related at all. Wrestling is a work. But you're really hitting each other. I've had my nose broken from a regular strike that wasn't a wake up shot. It happens. You're trying to make people believe you're really fighting. So my point in these replies is that you guys are projecting your understanding of other situations into this. If you don't want to get hit in the face, don't become a wrestler. If getting hit in the face isn't a deal breaker for you, maybe wrestling is a good fit for you.

But don't act like us being willing to get hit in the face is only okay in certain situations. No one is going out there and intentially hurting people. This isn't Masa Saito breaking Hogan's leg to show him respect or whatever. This is two consenting adults going into a performance with a shared understanding of contact. And hitting at a 5 or an 8 on the scale is no different. Finlay hits at a 10. Terry Funk hits at a 10. To be offended that Charlotte hit Kari at an 8 to get her back on track (injury not withstanding) while not getting offended at a Terry Funk hit that's a 10 is hypocritical.

And again to clarify, none of this is meant to do intentional harm. This isn't a coach sending a student into a game against their will. Or an actor who has no desire for contact in a scripted movie. It's consenting adults with a shared understanding of direct contact engaging in various levels of that contact to demonstrate a non-verbal cue. And if that stuff offends you, well I'm sorry to tell you every single wrestler you have ever appreciated does it. You're allowed to feel however that makes you feel. But personally it frustrates me that people categorize that as toxic or abuse. It's absolutely neither. If Charlotte hitting Kari is abuse then every punch Terry Funk has ever thrown is also abuse. You don't get to arbitrarily decide one hit is more egregious than another.

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33 minutes ago, AxB said:

"WWE books wrestler as unbeatable babyface superhuman, wrestling fans resent it and start disliking wrestler. Wrestler is booked to win all the time, be eternal Champion (or be above the belt if they don't have it) fans resent them more. Heels booked to face them get over as babyfaces because of it".

Not exactly a story we've only lived through once, is it?

Also known as McMahon’s first theory of wrestling relativity!

This was however superseded by Professor Poppa Pump’s theory on how Numbers can spell disaster for an opponent.

I believe modern day wrestling scientists are currently working on ‘18-49 Demo Theory’.

 

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21 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

i can't promise but i will try.  Shame what happened to ROH. When i attended the ROH/NJPW show at MSG i wouldn't have guessed that they'd fall off so fast.. 

I appreciate it, buddy, no sarcasm.

I'm just shocked that RoH died before TNA/Impact/Whateverthefuckit'scalled.

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7 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I appreciate it, buddy, no sarcasm.

I'm just shocked that RoH died before TNA/Impact/Whateverthefuckit'scalled.

Based of what Jeff Jarrett has said already through a handful of My World episodes, not really. TNA should have died about a year in. It's Keith Richards/George Clinton levels of indestructible. 

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