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October 2021 Wrestling Discussion


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2 hours ago, (BP) said:

They need to get Andrade away from the convoluted interference spots that have been in most of his AEW work. The last thing he needs is a living mummy screaming at ringside and taking apron bumps. 

LIES!  You'd be marking out like a giddy schoolgirl alongside the rest of us if this guy came down to ringside with Andrade:

 yeti - WrestleCrap - The Very Worst of Pro Wrestling!

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1 hour ago, Eoae said:

LIES!  You'd be marking out like a giddy schoolgirl alongside the rest of us if this guy came down to ringside with Andrade:

 yeti - WrestleCrap - The Very Worst of Pro Wrestling!

And they’ve already got Schiavone on play by play anyway, to boot

can't wait

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21 hours ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

Yes, ringwork needs to evolve, but this post-modern self referential undercurrent keeps rassling from hitting the memory making artistry that was there in the past. 

...

*Other reasons - lack of territories, death of kay fabe, no replacement for heel/face structure (all of which were inevitable), WWE's overexposure and shitty booking, spoiled fans, and more. Don't get me started.

There is not enough that can be written about the Death of Kayfabe. The only invention in the history of professional wrestling that is more important that the Death of Kayfabe is the advent of television.

You can never go back. You can't even properly quantify it, since the Death of Kayfabe happened at different times depending on the country or region. And it's not like some all-or-nothing thing, there's a percentage of the crowds that are smart and a percentage that aren't (we're not even at 100% smart in 2021). It's tied to socioeconomic variables like internet access, as well as the way the promotions chose to book. You simply cannot entirely compare pre-kayfabe and post-kayfabe wrestling. There is nothing wrong with preferring pre-kayfabe wrestling. There is nothing wrong with preferring half-smart 90's crowds where you get a bit of both energies. But the Books of Vince, Dave, Sayama, and Robocop have been written - all modern wrestling is prose belonging to an entirely separate Testament.

I think modern wrestling still hasn't figured out what to do with smart crowds. The artform wasn't invented with them in mind. There's a better way to do it somewhere, and since the majority of the post-kayfabe era has existed during a functional WWE monopoly, there's still a ways to go.

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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I've said it before but it's a chemical change. I don't even think you can compare 1984 Mid-South to modern wrestling. The incentives are different. The assumptions are different. The purpose is different. As an artistic endeavor, it's trying to accomplish different things. Apples and oranges. The idea of "working a crowd" has become six-dimensional chess full of winking and metatext and while it's impressive when someone pulls it off, it's lost everything primal and visceral from decades ago. People seek out experiences instead of outcomes and I personally think something's been lost that all the souped up workrate in the world can't replicate. But that doesn't mean there aren't things to enjoy in 2021 as well. You just have to know your own limits, find the things that speak to you, ignore the things that don't, and watch a balance of new and old. We're always finding new footage. We got brand new 80s WWF last week. We're sitting on new 80s and 90s lucha on an almost weekly basis. I spend an hour a week in 1960s France. There's always something more. But it's 100% apples and oranges.

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1 hour ago, Craig H said:

Wrestling is yappapai strap matches. 

Cody agrees with you!

 

On a serious note, people don't just quite jobs but they quite bosses and toxic work environments, and this seems to be happening quite a bit in WWE. On the otherside the attitude of "Hey bring your wife bring your friends" in AEW probably promotes a healthier work environment.

Hell Ashley Fliehr getting out of WWE might do wonders for her mental health

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6 minutes ago, Dog said:

Wait, what did Charlotte do to Sane?

She didn't realize Sane was concussed and slapped her when she fucked up one of the major spots in the tag titles TLC match. Keep in mind its not the first time Sane has been concussed and finished a match, and slapping people after a spot fuck up was something Sane and others in Stardom have done so its wasn't outside the norm for her. That situation was bad in general as everyone took way too long to realize. The ref should have had Kairi out a good 5-8 minutes before he actual did remove her. In general though people felt Charlotte should have realized sooner and the slap was just wrong in general. Even those who were somewhat indifferent to her have kind of had it out for her since. Hence why even if she might be in the right in the latest situation so many are perfectly fine seeing her as a simple asshole.

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9 minutes ago, Dog said:

Wait, what did Charlotte do to Sane?

She got concussed during a tag match and Charlotte was trying to powerbomb her through a table and kairi was trying to get out of it which pissed Charlotte off and she went for it anyway. To be fair kairi never actually said anything to her, and that’s all on the back because she was clearly concussed and no one was sent to check on her or stop the match. Becky was the one who finally figured it. 

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Before the Powerbomb was a spear Charlotte gave Kairi, where Kairi took a the softest bump she possibly could. That's what made Charlotte slap her - it was interpreted as a "You're making me look bad, Ooga booga booga" slap.

Also Kairi got concussed on a messed up T-Bone Suplex into the guard rail that Charlotte gave her. Her leg got caught on the top of the guard rail and she landed head to concrete.

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I’ve never understood the “Andrade needs a manager” angle that both WWE and AEW have saddled him with.  He’s flat out one of the coolest looking wrestlers on either promotions roster.  Just subtitle his promos or let him be a silent badass, he’s already got that cool movie villain intensity.  
 

On Charlotte’s possible AEW name, I vote for ‘Lady Spartacus’.  She would require to cut her hair obviously.

 

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9 minutes ago, Ultimo Necro said:

On Charlotte’s possible AEW name, I vote for ‘Lady Spartacus’.  She would require to cut her hair obviously.

 

Lady Spartacus and Megan Bayne will be the feud of 2023.

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29 minutes ago, Eivion said:

She didn't realize Sane was concussed and slapped her when she fucked up one of the major spots in the tag titles TLC match. Keep in mind its not the first time Sane has been concussed and finished a match, and slapping people after a spot fuck up was something Sane and others in Stardom have done so its wasn't outside the norm for her. 

That is (or was) a normal thing in wrestling in general. A "you made the spot look bad, get with it" shot used to be incredibly common. Sometimes it's a slap, sometimes it's an elbow or forearm a little stiffer than usual.

The fact that it was due to Kairi being injured was an unfortunate thing, yes, but when your mind's going a million miles a minute and you're trying to go to the next spot, and here's a spot where someone just outright doesn't bump off a spear and instead crumbles to the ground, the "hey, wake up" slap is second nature to a lot of wrestlers on how to respond to that.

Then the next spot is the power bomb to the table, which Kairi is actively fighting against Charlotte on, and what's most likely going through Charlotte's head isn't "Kairi is hurt", it's "she didn't bump off the spear, now she's deadweighting me on this power bomb and punching my arm. It's the spot. She's going through this table."

Is Charlotte wrong for that? Probably. But the culture of "keep going until the match is over" that's ingrained into wrestlers didn't help the situation. Kairi should've been removed from the match long before these spots occurred.

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WWE stuff:

Next years Feb and Oct seem to be the Saudi shows months. March, Aug and Nov have no PPVS this year and maybe it stays this way.

Vince Mcmahon said no to bringing back Russo according to Russo.

Rey's daughter wants to become a wrassler.
 

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52 minutes ago, Stefanie the Human said:

That is (or was) a normal thing in wrestling in general. A "you made the spot look bad, get with it" shot used to be incredibly common. Sometimes it's a slap, sometimes it's an elbow or forearm a little stiffer than usual.

The fact that it was due to Kairi being injured was an unfortunate thing, yes, but when your mind's going a million miles a minute and you're trying to go to the next spot, and here's a spot where someone just outright doesn't bump off a spear and instead crumbles to the ground, the "hey, wake up" slap is second nature to a lot of wrestlers on how to respond to that.

ALL this shit needs to go.  All the toxic, abusive bullshit in wrestling that’s just accepted because “that’s how it’s always been.”  
 

Also, I recall someone else in the match literally rolled Sane under the ring to get her away from Charlotte’s tough guy routine, which doesn’t gel with “just a wake-up slap.”

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19 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

ALL this shit needs to go.  All the toxic, abusive bullshit in wrestling that’s just accepted because “that’s how it’s always been.”  

I agree with this. I don't see where saying "Charlotte is an unprofessional goon" solves it, though, because it's ingrained in the system.

Like I mentioned, Kairi should have been removed from the match long before the spot happened. There's a ref in the match who's supposed to check on wrestlers immediately after dangerous looking spots. There are ringside medical staff there that are supposed to have the safety of the wrestlers as their utmost priority.

And what seems to be their priority?

Get up and finish the match.

So is it prudent to blame one person within the system for the system failing, or is it right to blame the system?

Earlier in this thread, @Gordbergsaid he didn't want Charlotte to go to AEW specifically because of this instance. Fair enough, that's his opinion. But had there been a system in place that actually protected the wrestlers instead of leaving it in the hands of wrestlers to protect themselves, or letting wrestlers slap the daylights out of each other when spots go awry, would any of this have happened?

Or is that Charlotte's fault too?

I mentioned earlier in thread that a lot of these posts smelled like misogyny, and people long-jumping to conclusions to blame a woman for systemic problems within the wrestling business are exactly what I'm talking about. And hey, guess what. Whatever happens with Charlotte? Unless those are addressed, this will keep happening.

Edited by Stefanie the Human
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