Shartnado Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Contract issues notwithstanding, you have more teams with a win now mentality especially if they're on the cusp of actually doing something. Dak was in his mid 20s, and there was still no guarantee Stephen and Jerry Jones wouldn't go after another QB. Moreover, when it comes to pro wrestlers...the guys we're talking about were good enough to get through high school, college, go to the league and THEN get hurt. If you're somewhat washed and get hurt, you might have some type of safety net of a desperate franchise picking you up (see RG3). Without the possible options of the CFL or Arena Football or some other fly by night startup (or the Big 3 or some of the other leagues you see late at night on ESPN2 if you're a basketball player), what options do you have as someone who was just solid to just slightly above average? Pro wrestling seems to be the best vehicle to make money especially if you're somewhat charismatic. This is about 100% true for American athletes and would-be athletes, but how about their European counterparts? Charisma is totally a thing! If it's not, please explain Ludivg Borga! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Contract issues notwithstanding, you have more teams with a win now mentality especially if they're on the cusp of actually doing something. Dak was in his mid 20s, and there was still no guarantee Stephen and Jerry Jones wouldn't go after another QB. Moreover, when it comes to pro wrestlers...the guys we're talking about were good enough to get through high school, college, go to the league and THEN get hurt. If you're somewhat washed and get hurt, you might have some type of safety net of a desperate franchise picking you up (see RG3). Without the possible options of the CFL or Arena Football or some other fly by night startup (or the Big 3 or some of the other leagues you see late at night on ESPN2 if you're a basketball player), what options do you have as someone who was just solid to just slightly above average? Pro wrestling seems to be the best vehicle to make money especially if you're somewhat charismatic. QB is a little different as franchise QBs like Dak are unicorns. No way they were gonna cut bait on Dak unless he absolutely couldn't go anymore. There are tons of options for football. My little brother who never even played in college has been in the Arena League and semi-pro system for a while and there are teams all over for people who want to chase the NFL. Even in the NFL, there's the practice squad where guys can make anywhere from $150K-$250K per year depending how long they've been in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Point being, there are more options for an average football player who gets hurt who can still play at a reasonable level than just defaulting to going to wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 20 minutes ago, cwoy2j said: Point being, there are more options for an average football player who gets hurt who can still play at a reasonable level than just defaulting to going to wrestling. That's the thing though. Reasonable level is a relative term especially when you're talking the high school/college level. Think about the number of people playing football across the country at those two levels. Going back to your point about the practice squad. There are 32 franchises. There are only a certain amount of practice squad players they can field at a given time. The amount of people who managed to stick around to be on the practice squad versus the number of people who just washed out between the ages of 16-22 has to be less than 10%. 5% even. Given that, the person who loves wrestling and likely grew up watching it is going to decide on wrestling instead of chasing the dream year after year. You would have to try very hard to wash out of professional wrestling especially if physically you look impressive and as I said, are somewhat charismatic. I think there has to be some acceptance at a certain level that you're never going to make it past what heights you were at before leaving. When Shayna Baszler left MMA, there were "more" options for female fighters (you had Invicta where she fought, you had Scott Coker running Bellator and looking for potential female stars, you had ONE FC looking for notable people who fought in US orgs, etc.). However, she was never going to be a champion or make anywhere close to what she is probably making now with WWE as a borderline .500 MMA fighter. Ain't no way. She would have needed a major career resurgence to do that. There are the options we "think" we have and then there is the option to make money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Elsalvajeloco said: That's the thing though. Reasonable level is a relative term especially when you're talking the high school/college level. Think about the number of people playing football across the country at those two levels. Going back to your point about the practice squad. There are 32 franchises. There are only a certain amount of practice squad players they can field at a given time. The amount of people who managed to stick around to be on practice squad versus the number of people who just washed out between the ages of 16-22 has to be less than 10%. 5% even. Given that, the person who loves wrestling and likely grew up watching it is going to decide on wrestling instead of chasing the dream year after year. You would have to try very hard to wash out of professional wrestling especially if physically you look impressive and as I said, are somewhat charismatic. I think there has to be some acceptance at a certain level that you're never going to make it past what heights you were at before leaving. When Shayna Baszler left MMA, there were "more" options for female fighters (you had Invicta where she fought, you had Scott Coker running Bellator and looking for potential female stars, you had ONE FC looking for notable people who fought in US orgs, etc.). However, she was never going to be a champion or make anywhere close to what she is probably making now with WWE as a borderline .500 MMA fighter. Ain't no way. She would have needed a major career resurgence to do that. There are the options we "think" we have and then there is the option to make money. The bolded part is the best point. I was just saying that there are definitely ways guys can still play football and make some money if they get hurt but it's a big fucking grind. My bro played Arena League II (whatever the league right before the actual Arena League on tv is) for a couple of years and even just to do that, he had to go up through the ranks of their developmental system to do so. And to move up, he (with help from me and our parents) oftentimes had to pay to get film to scouts in the higher leagues. There's money to be made in the lower ranks for football but I agree with you that it's "easier" (putting easy in quotes b/c I think we can all agree wrestling isn't easy) for a marginal or injured football player to get bigger money in wrestling rather than to just keep up the grind in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Up until the 1970s, being a top level wrestler was likely better financially than being a football player. Can't do the research ar the moment, from Nagurski and Nomellini to Wahoo and Ernie Ladd, they likely chose wrestling because it was better paid. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, cwoy2j said: The bolded part is the best point. I was just saying that there are definitely ways guys can still play football and make some money if they get hurt but it's a big fucking grind. My bro played Arena League II (whatever the league right before the actual Arena League on tv is) for a couple of years and even just to do that, he had to go up through the ranks of their developmental system to do so. And to move up, he (with help from me and our parents) oftentimes had to pay to get film to scouts in the higher leagues. There's money to be made in the lower ranks for football but I agree with you that it's "easier" (putting easy in quotes b/c I think we can all agree wrestling isn't easy) for a marginal or injured football player to get bigger money in wrestling rather than to just keep up the grind in football. Definitely, but job security and longevity you have to throw out. They didn't stop making football players after they made you. There is a kid or are kids who were not lucky like a Jaylon Smith and had a franchise like Cowboys take a flyer on and had to put in their bid elsewhere in those lower ranks. There are a bunch of folks who had bad grades or had outside trouble and went JUCO, but didn't turn out like Cam at Blinn College. If they decide to continue on, they're fighting tooth and nail over those spots just so one day they get a shot to play in the NFL even if it's just for one season for the league minimum. Your aspiration is to not play at that level forever. People who are willing to get broke up physically for millions of dollars. I don't know one person who loves football enough to do that for just six figures if that and the potential of no real payoff at all after an arduous journey. Syuri Kondo was dare I say a good MMA fighter and even managed to win a fight or two in the UFC, which Shayna didn't even do. However, as a wrestler, she is much better. In addition, she's not out there going against girls who she knows are much better than her and could physically blow her doors off and risk long term damage. Plus, a six to eight week fight camp costs money just like paying for personal trainers and personal chefs to train for stick and ball sports costs money. She could be making 30k to show and 30k to win in the UFC or making probably 45k or 50k a fight in RIZIN right now, or she could be excelling in Stardom and getting taken care of financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Every football player had to have a side gig in the offseason basically. I think Bart Starr sold cars or something. I'd have to check on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, odessasteps said: Up until the 1970s, being a top level wrestler was likely better financially than being a football player. Can't do the research ar the moment, from Nagurski and Nomellini to Wahoo and Ernie Ladd, they likely chose wrestling because it was better paid. 2 minutes ago, Ryan said: Every football player had to have a side gig in the offseason basically. I think Bart Starr sold cars or something. I'd have to check on that. I think recently someone tweeted at Meltzer or Meltzer compiled some list regarding ex football players involved in wrestling or some such list. May have been Olympians. I dunno. However, I'm pretty sure the football to wrestling pipeline was quite normal given that wrestling was year round and top acts would get cycled in and out every few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Not remotely surprising and fairly well known by now by dorks like us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 I wonder if the West Texas football program was functionally a training ground for the Amarillo promotion and the Funks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: I don't know one person who loves football enough to do that for just six figures if that and the potential of no real payoff at all after an arduous journey. Just anecdotally, there are guys like that. They just like playing football and will do it at the lower levels. For many of the guys like that who I've met, it's basically do that to support themselves and their family or try to do something they don't like. At the end of the day, it's just a job for a lot of those guys and it's something they like and know how to do better than sitting in an office or doing something else (or at the darker end of the spectrum, criminal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Football players had to take outside jobs or side hustles back in the day. My dad used to play basketball against a team of Packers who would “barnstorm” during the off-season to make money. It helped fuel his hatred of the Packers and make a vow to never step foot in Lambeau field (which he held even when my brother in law bought tickets for me and him to go to game as a birthday present, I had to go with said brother in law instead) also Ray nitschke was a super dirty player whom my dad held in particular contempt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister TV Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 30 minutes ago, odessasteps said: Up until the 1970s, being a top level wrestler was likely better financially than being a football player. Can't do the research ar the moment, from Nagurski and Nomellini to Wahoo and Ernie Ladd, they likely chose wrestling because it was better paid. Both Wahoo and Ladd, wrestled in the off-season but only wrestled full time after they retired from football, they didn’t make the switch for “better” pay. Wahoo played in the AFL for 8 seasons and while colorful was an average player, Ladd was a star who played 7 seasons but had knee injuries that cut his football career short, if he didn’t have the knee injuries he would have played a few more seasons. Up until the mid-70’s almost all NFL players had off season jobs, superstars usually had some sort of corporate sales job where they played golf and went to dinners. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, cwoy2j said: Just anecdotally, there are guys like that. They just like playing football and will do it at the lower levels. For many of the guys like that who I've met, it's basically do that to support themselves and their family or try to do something they don't like. At the end of the day, it's just a job for a lot of those guys and it's something they like and know how to do better than sitting in an office or doing something else (or at the darker end of the spectrum, criminal). That's some sort of payoff though, at least in their minds. If you have a high opinion of your skills or what you could possibly achieve, that's not gonna be enough. I would compare it to being a stand up comic. There is a grace period or honeymoon period where being your 20s as a stand up comic and not being a success is not looked upon as a failure. It's only once you get X number years in and you have a significant other or family who looks at you and wants you to do something else to make ends meet, that's when it appears to be seen as pathetic. Anecdotally, you going to find comics who do it cause it beats the office environment or doing Uber/UberEats/Doordash etc. However, going up in a room and only still having 5-10 minutes of decent material at some point puts everything into perspective. That love is going to go away or they're going to quit that and do something else. If you like wrestling and physically can do it, you don't have to go through that embarrassment. Otherwise, if still trying to do football beyond rationale, you become the living embodiment of a Spice Adams football player skit on Youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafkonia Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Outside the NFL, a lot of pro football players still have off-season gigs. Granted it's twenty-odd years ago, but I used to rent NES games from a store run by a CFL linebacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peck Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Didn't see it mentioned anywhere(aside from the spoilered pic a few days ago of the wound) but Jim Ross confirmed that he has skin cancer. Thoughts and best wishes out to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 4 hours ago, cwoy2j said: You could probably go back to all of the old West Texas State guys like Dusty, Stan Hansen, Funk, Tito, Tully, etc. I know that Dusty and Hansen gave pro football a go and weren't good enough. Tully never sniffed the pros as from what I've read, he was a pretty shitty QB (16 career tds vs. 38 interceptions). I think they were among the first group of guys who tried football first and when that didn't work, went into wrestling. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tully-blanchard-1.html Very true, but those guys are so great in wrestling they didn't get the label. I'm talking about the specific idea of people referring to guys derisively as failed football players. Sorry if I worded that poorly in my original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: I don't know one person who loves football enough to do that for just six figures if that and the potential of no real payoff at all after an arduous journey. There are a countless number of guys who had long careers in the CFL knowing they'd never get a whiff of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, Infinit said: There are a countless number of guys who had long careers in the CFL knowing they'd never get a whiff of the NFL. That's the CFL though. You still have to be semi decent to be in the CFL. We were talking about the guys under that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Ryan said: Every football player had to have a side gig in the offseason basically. I think Bart Starr sold cars or something. I'd have to check on that. and around here, Len Dawson was a sports reporter on a local news station while he was still playing for the Chiefs, and then he had that news job until he was in his 70s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Has there ever been a thorough list of guys who played in the USFL that went into wrestling? We know about the higher profile guys (Lex, Simmons, Doc) and some of the others (Ed Gantner). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 its interesting that it seems that the Football to wrestling pipeline has been replaced by a MMA to wrestling pipeline. Anyway I do think the ex-football players viewing it as a job in the way of "work hard and you can make solid money" help wrestling get big as opposed to people just wanting to do it for the "art of it" or what ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, zendragon said: its interesting that it seems that the Football to wrestling pipeline has been replaced by a MMA to wrestling pipeline. It feels different with MMA being semi-born out of wrestling in terms of jumping from other sports. A lot of the fighters jumping would have been wrestlers had the money been as good in the first place as many were wrestling fans. Also seems like more do wrestling in the middle or towards the end of their careers opposed to shifting due to an inability to make a name for themselves in MMA. Edited October 24, 2021 by Eivion 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizium Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 6 hours ago, Sublime said: Football players had to take outside jobs or side hustles back in the day. My dad used to play basketball against a team of Packers who would “barnstorm” during the off-season to make money. It helped fuel his hatred of the Packers and make a vow to never step foot in Lambeau field (which he held even when my brother in law bought tickets for me and him to go to game as a birthday present, I had to go with said brother in law instead) also Ray nitschke was a super dirty player whom my dad held in particular contempt Nitschke is my dad's all time favourite player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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