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Dynamite - 9/8/2021


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10 minutes ago, Matt D said:

@Greggulatordefinitely needs to watch BTE at .75 speed and backwards while high on six Wawa F'Real mint chip milkshakes in order to understand AEW.

 

This way only leads to Dr. Luther taping 95 screeching theses to Tony Khan's door. 😭

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My daughter is about to be six and she’s been calling mint chocolate chip ChocaWawa since she was two because that was the first place she remembers getting it from. If she finds out they have mint milkshakes I’ll have to avoid driving by WaWa just like I have to with the “Happy Meal Store.”

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32 minutes ago, Dog said:

So you're saying that Greggulator NEEDS to engage with the AEW fanbase to enjoy AEW? Apparently I have a higher opinion of him than you do.

I'd suggest Gregg (who I don't intend to speak for, so I'll be sure to say "seems to") seems to have a desire to engage the rest of the fanbase in discourse (a choice, not a need... what a weird thing to choose to read into the conversation) in a way that enhances their fan experience, but some people can't help but pile on over any deeply held deviation to the prevailing opinion. And if that experience keeps them from wanting to keep up with this stuff, I wouldn't blame them. 

You can continue to have a hard on about me all you want. This isn't just about Gregg. In six months when it's time for everyone to have yet another board group therapy session about so-and-so being run off or how some discussion isn't tolerated, and everyone lines up to tell themselves that they're not like that or they feel bad about this or that, it's pile ons like this that lead to shit like that. It's a very boring cycle.

Edited by John from Cincinnati
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1 minute ago, John from Cincinnati said:

I'd suggest Gregg (who I don't intend to speak for, so I'll be sure to say "seems to") seems to have a desire to engage the rest of the fanbase in discourse (a choice, not a need... what a weird thing to choose to read into the conversation), but some people can't help but pile on over any deeply held deviation to the prevailing opinion.

You can continue to have a hard on about me all you want. This isn't just about Gregg. In six months when it's time for everyone to have yet another board group therapy session about so-and-so being run off or how some discussion isn't tolerated, and everyone lines up to tell themselves that they're not like that or they feel bad about this or that, it's pile ons like this that lead to shit like that. It's a very boring cycle.

I've been through this here many times before. I'm fine with it. I express unpopular opinions like "I like this WWE thing a lot" or "I do not like guys from the indies joining NXT and keeping their names and personas, it was more fun when they had to come up with new stuff" or "I wish AEW tweaked this." For some reason, it sets people off. Oh well. That's fine. To each their own. 

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6 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

I'd suggest Gregg (who I don't intend to speak for, so I'll be sure to say "seems to") seems to have a desire to engage the rest of the fanbase in discourse (a choice, not a need... what a weird thing to choose to read into the conversation), but some people can't help but pile on over any deeply held deviation to the prevailing opinion.

You can continue to have a hard on about me all you want. This isn't just about Gregg. In six months when it's time for everyone to have yet another board group therapy session about so-and-so being run off or how some discussion isn't tolerated, and everyone lines up to tell themselves that they're not like that or they feel bad about this or that, it's pile ons like this that lead to shit like that. It's a very boring cycle.

Serious point: It sucks that fans are assholes. I'd like to see it change, and I genuinely wonder what can be done about that.

Superfluous point: I'm certainly not trying to pile on anyone. I just think it's funny that a guy who DEMANDS higher "discourse," and asks me to reflect on my behavior (without pointing to any specific instance), has insulted me in his last ... four replies, is it? Someone check the post history! 😄

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8 minutes ago, Dog said:

Superfluous point: I'm certainly not trying to pile on anyone. 

I will grant that I didn't note you as being involved in that and I hope I wasn't being accusatory in a way that specifically implied that (I may have missed it, but I don't remember you being involved or not being involved). I'm having the conversation I'm having, and would not be responding to you but for your directly engaging with me. 

Your capitalizing certain words to misrepresent other people's voice is a cute rhetorical trick. I may borrow it. 

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58 minutes ago, Dog said:

Serious point: It sucks that fans are assholes. I'd like to see it change, and I genuinely wonder what can be done about that.

Fewer male fans. Male fandom is inherently toxic.

 

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

Serious point: It sucks that fans are assholes. I'd like to see it change, and I genuinely wonder what can be done about that.

a few years ago, i took my nephew to the a small local comic con-type event. I'm a big Batman fan. i've watched every movie, tv show, and cartoon. i read EVERY Batman comic published from 1939-2011. i have a gigantic Batman cardboard cutout on my basement wall. i think that probably puts me in the upper echelon, if you measure by those kind of metrics.

My nephew is a bigger Batman fan than i am. he likes a couple of the Batman cartoons and has played one of the games (i think it was a Lego Batman game, but i don't know for sure). he's never read a Batman comic to my knowledge.

some asshole saw my nephew's Batman shirt & mask and tried to belittle him by asking if he's read *insert some comic here*. my nephew was upset. i could have easily contributed to the toxic fanship this prick was exhibiting by making some obscure Batman reference that this guy didn't get. Instead, i told my nephew that this guy was a lot like Harvey Dent. sometimes, he pretends he's nice, but really he's a jerk. It made my nephew feel better and this guy feel bad. worth it.

this shit ain't rocket science. People are allowed to like what you like in ways other than how you like it. Once more people realize that, the better off everyone will be. 

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3 hours ago, Greggulator said:

But, in all honesty, the number one thing that's going to sour me on the programming are Comic Shop Guys about all of this who can't believe that I -- a person who did not watch All Out and who does not follow Japanese wrestling -- would want to see about 15 seconds worth of screen time to show me why this guy was a big deal, and why it was a big deal for Jon Moxley (who I do know) to face him.

Is it weird that we essentially see each other as the same thing? From my perspective you're the comic book guy from the Simpsons ragging on us all because we're reading something obscure thing that doesn't fit the literary structure you get from the mainstream big name comics.

I'm going to scale back my engagement in this because I think we can all agree that the argument has been warped into weird new stuff on all sides. I will leave my final thoughts as this : I don't think it's preposterous to show a 30 second promo or video to show who a new guy is. There is a happy medium between showing nothing and over explaining. But it does strike a note with me when someone says it would have been better if they had done "this" on a show where they literally did "this". And then to turn it from a constructive disagreement about the show we watched to toxic fandom and stuff because people disagree with you.
 

4 hours ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

My opinion doesn't exactly correspond with the majority, and I don't need to be told how stupid I am for that. I've done the constant arguments on the board before, and I'm pretty sure I took several years off my life for it.

But--in my opinion--they stink on other things. Pretty much like every other wrestling or sports entertainment company.

I can understand if you don't want to go into specifics. But I'm curious to hear the things that they stink at from your perspective. Our tastes don't always line up but you're a poster I enjoy seeing the opinion of. Even if we don't agree I generally understand your points. So it would be nice to see what you think they can improve on. But again I get it if you don't wanna get into specifics.

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28 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I can understand if you don't want to go into specifics. But I'm curious to hear the things that they stink at from your perspective. Our tastes don't always line up but you're a poster I enjoy seeing the opinion of. Even if we don't agree I generally understand your points. So it would be nice to see what you think they can improve on. But again I get it if you don't wanna get into specifics.

I'm not Burgundy, but I can tell you that for as much as AEW is touted as a progressive company, I get heavily annoyed at their lackluster women's booking. One women's match per show if we're lucky, usually in the same exact segment slot on the show, is not acceptable. (I can't remember if I read that here or not, but I do remember thinking it was strange that the women went on at almost the same exact point every show for weeks at a time). I know part of that was because they were reliant on non-American talent and the pandemic did them no favors, but they've had 18 months to correct that.

The last five Dynamites have had five to six matches, and one of them has been a women's match. With one exception, that women's match is either the shortest or second shortest match of the show. The longest women's match on Dynamite in the last five weeks has been 8:29 (Tay Conti vs Penelope Ford, on 9/1), and that was the exception I mentioned earlier. I have no idea how you can expect your women's division to grow and shine when the most time they're expected to get is 8:29 of match time at most on a two hour show, plus maybe Britt Baker doing her thing.

(I guess on Dark or Elevation? Yay?)

The other thing is that again... for a progressive company, all their top men's singles wrestlers are lily white (or, depending on how sloppily they apply their spray tan, orange). And it's not because there aren't good non-white men's wrestlers out there. They just signed Lee Moriarty. That's great. But why is Powerhouse Hobbs just now starting to get pushed? Why hasn't someone like Arik Royal gotten a look? Why is O'Shay Edwards just now getting a look by Ring of Honor? Why hasn't AJ Gray been given a look?

AEW does a lot of things good, but just off the top of my head, that's two pretty major criticisms that can and should be addressed.

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21 minutes ago, Stefanie the Human said:

I'm not Burgundy, but I can tell you that for as much as AEW is touted as a progressive company, I get heavily annoyed at their lackluster women's booking. One women's match per show if we're lucky, usually in the same exact segment slot on the show, is not acceptable. (I can't remember if I read that here or not, but I do remember thinking it was strange that the women went on at almost the same exact point every show for weeks at a time). I know part of that was because they were reliant on non-American talent and the pandemic did them no favors, but they've had 18 months to correct that.

That was me who called them out on that. I usually get home from picking my GF up at 9:30 on Wednesday nights and EVERY TIME I would come home for a little stretch there, it felt like there was a women's match on. My complaint with that was more so that I wanted "unpredictability" instead of leaving at 845 and getting back at 930 and knowing exactly what segment would be on - but your point remains true still.

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The booking of women's matches feels eerily close to booking in TEW where it's like, well, let's just throw a women's match here. I doubt that's the mindset, but that's what it feels like. 

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2 hours ago, Stefanie the Human said:

I'm not Burgundy, but I can tell you that for as much as AEW is touted as a progressive company, I get heavily annoyed at their lackluster women's booking. One women's match per show if we're lucky, usually in the same exact segment slot on the show, is not acceptable. (I can't remember if I read that here or not, but I do remember thinking it was strange that the women went on at almost the same exact point every show for weeks at a time). I know part of that was because they were reliant on non-American talent and the pandemic did them no favors, but they've had 18 months to correct that.

The last five Dynamites have had five to six matches, and one of them has been a women's match. With one exception, that women's match is either the shortest or second shortest match of the show. The longest women's match on Dynamite in the last five weeks has been 8:29 (Tay Conti vs Penelope Ford, on 9/1), and that was the exception I mentioned earlier. I have no idea how you can expect your women's division to grow and shine when the most time they're expected to get is 8:29 of match time at most on a two hour show, plus maybe Britt Baker doing her thing.

(I guess on Dark or Elevation? Yay?)

The other thing is that again... for a progressive company, all their top men's singles wrestlers are lily white (or, depending on how sloppily they apply their spray tan, orange). And it's not because there aren't good non-white men's wrestlers out there. They just signed Lee Moriarty. That's great. But why is Powerhouse Hobbs just now starting to get pushed? Why hasn't someone like Arik Royal gotten a look? Why is O'Shay Edwards just now getting a look by Ring of Honor? Why hasn't AJ Gray been given a look?

AEW does a lot of things good, but just off the top of my head, that's two pretty major criticisms that can and should be addressed.

These are all criticisms I agree with. I have been annoyed in previous threads about how rigid they have been with the structure. They have done either 5 or 6 matches on every Dynamite for the whole year. Of those 5 matches a week one is a women's match. And 80% of the time that women's segment happens at the 9:30 "cool down before the main event" slot. That's something they can do better on. Especial when a bunch of the women are so over. Britt, Statlander, Ruby, Jade may be green but she's way over, Rosa, Anna & Tay. The strict no more than 6 match structure is also a hindrance. Switch it up sometimes. Go light on pre tapes and throw in an extra match or two. Would help to get more women on.

Also agree on the lack of diversity. They have some good Latino representation hoovering around the top (Lucha Bros & Andrade). But they need to get some more people of color into the mix. Hobbs is a good start, a program with Punk will raise his stock. But again they can do better.

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2 hours ago, Stefanie the Human said:

But why is Powerhouse Hobbs just now starting to get pushed?

I'd guess it's because Punk came in from the cold and spoke his name and we're about to see a few more bites at the apple for people he has his eye on. But yeah, would have liked to see more sooner. 

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3 hours ago, Stefanie the Human said:

I'm not Burgundy, but I can tell you that for as much as AEW is touted as a progressive company, I get heavily annoyed at their lackluster women's booking. One women's match per show if we're lucky, usually in the same exact segment slot on the show, is not acceptable.

Oh God yes. Remember a year or so back when everybody was gung-ho for Britt Baker to move into the title picture? I was half on board, but also half dreading it, because back then we at least got two women's storylines at a time: the title feud and whatever Britt was doing. (Even if the former was often pretty perfunctory.) Putting the title on her threatened to drop that to one, and sure enough, that's pretty much what happened.

There have been small signs of improvement lately - the Swole-Diamante feud on Dark and Elevation, the storyline with Penelope Ford and The Bunny using their numerical advantage against Tai Conti leading to the return of Anna Jay. (Although is that still going? All four were on Elevation tonight but there was no interaction between them, nor any mention of a feud from the commentators that I recall.) But they still have a huge distance to go.

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