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September 2021 Wrestling Discussion


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3 hours ago, The Great ML said:

Jesse Ventura would name drop Larry the Axe during commentary every so often....he even does it at WM5 during the Perfect / Blue Blazer match.

"Still has a 24-inch neck.  he said i gotta lose 20 pounds... i said get your neck down to 18 you'll lose it!" 

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4 hours ago, Mister TV said:

If I remember right he was rarely called Kerry Von Erich after his first cycle of tv tapings, Gorilla or Heenan might have dropped a Kerry Von Erich once and awhile, most of the time the never really mentioned the Von Erich family, they’d say “he’s from a great wrestling family” or something similar. 

Around that time they did the same with just about everyone they repackaged, mention their "real"/former name on the first appearance and then the nickname became their ring name. Curt Hennig/Mr Perfect, Davey Boy Smith/British Bulldog, Kerry Von Erich/Texas Tornado, Ricky Steamboat/The Dragon. They didn't do it with Smash/Repo Man I would imagine because it was two complete gimmick characters, but also they never refenced Hawaiian Crush as the former Demolition Crush despite him using the same name so it might have also been because of the lawsuit over the Demolition name and gimmick.

I've never seen Barry Windham's debut as the Widowmaker which is in this this timeframe so I don't know if they acknowledged him as Barry Windham, former 2 time tag champ, son of Blackjack Mulligan etc.

3 hours ago, The Great ML said:

Jesse Ventura would name drop Larry the Axe during commentary every so often....he even does it at WM5 during the Perfect / Blue Blazer match.

He did it at WM6 as well, asking Gorilla if he knew "Perfect's old man, the Ax". It confused me as a new fan of American wrestling and I thought Demolition Ax was Mr Perfect's father for quite a while.

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10 hours ago, Infinit said:

Joe Hennig could've used the rub from his name without having his dad's gimmick. It's not like Randy Orton walks around with a cast on his arm.

Although, very early on he did have a sling on his arm during those RNN updates! It's a miracle he was able to eventually get rid of it.

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5 hours ago, Happ Hazzard said:

 

Around that time they did the same with just about everyone they repackaged, mention their "real"/former name on the first appearance and then the nickname became their ring name. Curt Hennig/Mr Perfect, Davey Boy Smith/British Bulldog, Kerry Von Erich/Texas Tornado, Ricky Steamboat/The Dragon. They didn't do it with Smash/Repo Man I would imagine because it was two complete gimmick characters, but also they never refenced Hawaiian Crush as the former Demolition Crush despite him using the same name so it might have also been because of the lawsuit over the Demolition name and gimmick.

I've never seen Barry Windham's debut as the Widowmaker which is in this this timeframe so I don't know if they acknowledged him as Barry Windham, former 2 time tag champ, son of Blackjack Mulligan etc.

He did it at WM6 as well, asking Gorilla if he knew "Perfect's old man, the Ax". It confused me as a new fan of American wrestling and I thought Demolition Ax was Mr Perfect's father for quite a while.

Larry the Axe almost got as many shoutouts as Terry, Tyrell and Jayde...

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21 hours ago, John E. Dynamite said:

I always catch myself thinking about the "Lost Generation" of US pro-wrestlers who existed after the demise of WCW/ECW and before the NXT talent raids. Like, I don't think we realized what was happening during those 18 years of WWE dominance and TNA futility. I don't think we realized it was a period in wrestling history when things were not the way they were supposed to be. Even (especially?) die-hard fans were so pessimistic about the whole thing that we just assumed wrestling wasn't ever going to be cool again, the UFC took all the legitimacy away, Benoit took away all the joy, the demise of WCW took away all the creativity, and somehow our favorite thing deserved to be portrayed to the masses as a largely stupid and childish form of entertainment.

That's why I think it's really important to remember and celebrate the generation of wrestlers who peaked in that era and never got to make the millions of dollars & fans that they would have in any other. Off the top of my head, Homicide, Nigel McGuinness, and Chris Hero are the big-name indy superstars that come to mind but after that first tier comes a bunch of bigger what-ifs. Alex Shelley, Super Dragon, Eddie Edwards, maybe not headcases like Low Ki and Davey Richards. Really entertaining guys who would have gotten over as midcard acts, like a hypothetical 2002 ECW run with the Spanish Announce Team, or 2009 WCW running an odd CHIKARA tag in the first hour of Nitro. Who's to say an edgy rival doesn't counter-program the Cena era and doesn't do a Gage-esque short run with a deathmatch guy?  I think the rawest deals went to the "sports entertainment" type guys who worked a real solid style but weren't flashy enough to win over spotmark indy fans, i.e. BJ Whitmer, Adam Pearce, Xavier, etc. Or European guys like Jody Fleisch who would have, at the very least, been able to garner a decent following with just a little US TV exposure or bigger US indies that could afford to fly them in. Or, here's a shocker, every woman who was in that first wave of SHIMMER talent - it is bullshit that people like Lacey or LuFisto never even had a chance to be famous. A majority of the PWG founders + early regulars had to eventually say "fuck it" and fall back on their day jobs, and I'm pretty certain time has already dimmed the glory of their deeds. Not to mention global talent like the cursed 3rd Generation of the NJPW dojo, the heavyweights that failed to inherent the throne of NOAH, and the dozens of luchadores who would have done a better job with the Sin Cara gimmick than Mistico.

I guess what I'm saying is, this board was built on the discussion of monopoly-era indies and international wrestling so talking about these guys is second nature to a lot of us. But the rest of the wrestling fandom is pretty darn clueless. Don't allow these past decades to become the Dark Ages. Tell the children all your tales of B-Boy, "The Turkish Delight" Murat Bosporus, and Osamu Nishimura, or we will live in a world that will forget them.

1000 internet points for the Murat Bosporus reference. I probably would have gone Emil Sitoci if it were my post!

This is a thing I ponder a lot, too. There was no shortage of Tv-ready (and potentially TV-ready) acts out there with no real options on that front. 

2005 ECW would have been WILD.

 

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22 hours ago, John E. Dynamite said:

Or, here's a shocker, every woman who was in that first wave of SHIMMER talent - it is bullshit that people like Lacey or LuFisto never even had a chance to be famous.

Lacey 100% absolutely should have been a star. I recently rewatched my old SHIMMER DVDs from back then and it was amazing how well Lacey holds up, both as a wrestler and as a character.

A lot of women coming up today would do well to watch Lacey. She definitely had it.

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17 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

"Still has a 24-inch neck.  he said i gotta lose 20 pounds... i said get your neck down to 18 you'll lose it!" 

It's super cool that you remember the quote pretty much word for word, and I doubt you just watched the match in order to do so! I remember that quote too, the show was shown on EuroSport minus 4 or so matches, which I did eventually check out from the Network!

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The WWE roster draft is soon, we will see who switches to what brands. And who gets broken up tag team wise. Also if they do any post draft gimmicks. WWE Universal Champion Roman Reigns vs. Drew McIntyre is planned for the 10/1 WWE Draft Friday Night Smackdown taping. But like cards say plans can change.

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1 hour ago, Stefanie the Human said:

Lacey 100% absolutely should have been a star. I recently rewatched my old SHIMMER DVDs from back then and it was amazing how well Lacey holds up, both as a wrestler and as a character.

A lot of women coming up today would do well to watch Lacey. She definitely had it.

It was about three years into their existence, but I still maintain Madison Eagles never got a fair shake in the United States, and still hasn't.

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2 hours ago, Stefanie the Human said:

Lacey 100% absolutely should have been a star. I recently rewatched my old SHIMMER DVDs from back then and it was amazing how well Lacey holds up, both as a wrestler and as a character.

A lot of women coming up today would do well to watch Lacey. She definitely had it.

Also, the Minnesota Homewrecking Crew is just a bonkers good team name.

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5 hours ago, Shane said:

1000 internet points for the Murat Bosporus reference. I probably would have gone Emil Sitoci if it were my post!

This is a thing I ponder a lot, too. There was no shortage of Tv-ready (and potentially TV-ready) acts out there with no real options on that front. 

2005 ECW would have been WILD.

 

Guys like Kenny Khaos missed out on being either in ECW of the WCW cruiserweight division and missed out on WWE being open to smaller talents.

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On 9/17/2021 at 5:05 PM, odessasteps said:

I could see Vince taking Kevin and Mike begrudingly just to get Kerry. Maybe just make them a mid level tag team to earn a paycheck. A better version of what they did with Lanny to get Randy. 

I always felt it was more of a respect thing Vince felt about Fritz. Fritz innovated TV and also didn't give a fuck about the NWA.

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On 9/18/2021 at 2:57 AM, Eoae said:

When Joe Hennig was called up, their was a persistent rumor that Hennig didn't want to use his real name and chose McGillicutty because it was his mother's maiden name.  That story was probably completely fabricated - as far as I can find, his mom's maiden name was Leonard - but it seems like Meltzer backed it up back then.

Honestly, sending Joe out there with the ring name of "Hennig" and advertising him as Mr. Perfect's kid wouldn't have done him any favors.  He exhibited about a quarter of his dad's charisma and promo ability, after all.  But the "you have to earn it" stuff is just silly.  At the end of the day, creative's job is to sell tickets.  More people would have paid attention to "Perfect" Joe Hennig than they did to Michael McGillicutty or Curtis Axel.

I thought "Curtis Axel" was a worse name for him than "Michael McGillicutty",  I don't think it's a big deal though.  He had bigger issues than his gimmick name.  I liked Hennig well enough, but I never thought he had the look or charisma to go far on the main roster.  His widely mocked "beginning... of the genesis... of McGillicutty" hurt his career far more than his gimmick name or father ever did. 

 

But you can lean into Joe not being as good as Curt.

I've posted it 20 times on here but he could have still been a delusional low-midcard heel who claimed he was "Perfect" but failed all the time.

He misses the look away 3 pointer. He gutter balls the 7-10 split. His 60 yard bomb only goes 25 yards.

All the while he talks about being "Perfect".

Give him the Perfect Plex as a silver bullet. He hits it, he wins. The problem is, he's just not good enough to hook it up in most matches.

He could shock the IC champ one night on RAW. Or score a pin to pick up the tag belts.He's a threat if he finds his spot.

Over time he either rolls with the delusional loser deal or, and here is the part WWE fails at, he actually fucking GROWS AND DEVELOPS over the years and manages to turn it around.

He can hit a free throw. He manages a nice 2 pin spare. He executes a hand off to a running back.

Now he's a lovable loser. The crowd can get behind him. He's on the march to win the IC title at SummerSlam, just like his dad.

It's not that fucking hard with these guys.

Edited by L_W_P
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3 hours ago, L_W_P said:

But you can lean into Joe not being as good as Curt.

I've posted it 20 times on here but he could have still been a delusional low-midcard heel who claimed he was "Perfect" but failed all the time.

how does this put over Roman Reigns?

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Heenan: I can guarantee you that they heard those chops all the way from Vietnam.

….

Dusty: Hello, Bobby, are you there?

Tony: Did you say “Vietnam”?

Edit:

Heenan: Super Calo… fragilistic expialidocious

Dusty: I knew you were going to say that!

Heenan: You had to.

These things are like 2021 rifftrax, but they were done live in 1996. This is why I love AEW Dark today.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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