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August 2021 Wrestling Discussion


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4 hours ago, Raziel said:

The train stations look identical on the platforms (mostly due to them being built around the same time).

I've spent enough time in Newark to know the difference between the cities.

They don’t look the same; Newark is a through-running station with high platforms, Hoboken is a terminal (which is why Ruby can just walk past multiple tracks/gates) with unique middle-height platforms.

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On 8/18/2021 at 1:56 PM, The Natural said:

WWE should have called an audible and have Jerry Lawler beat The Mix for the WWE Championship at Elimination Chamber 2011. Man, WWE changed the WWE Championship and World Heavyweight Championship too many times that year.

My fantasy booking would've been to do it in Memphis, have Jimmy Hart interfere only to have Lance Russell come out and dump a bag of flour on him which distracts the ref allowing Lawler to pull out the Memphis Chain and cold cock Miz for the 3 count. Would've been among the greatest moments in wrestling history.

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13 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

WWE really messed up The Hurt Business.   They had a legit badass stable on their hands that was getting over and completely ruined it for no reason and now Lashley will probably drop the belt at SummerSlam to the one move man.  What a waste.  Memories: 

the-hurt-business.jpg

So frustrating breaking up the Hurt Business giving each member a purpose, a direction. Still remember this:

 

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All of these WWE employees and house organs like Reigns and now Peter Rosenberg crapping on Punk and I have to wonder how come I don't hear people shitting on the other more important person that is going to debut soon for AEW.  Unless that is still in the works and may still not happen.  If you wee going to make the dumb "he wasn't over" or "he didn't draw" or "he didn't make money" arguments, I would think they would choose Bryan over Punk

 

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16 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

lol

 

So do we think Roman is intentionally selling for Punk or is he just too dumb to realize he’s giving free advertising to AEW ahead of their most anticipated show ever?

Edited by EVA
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He's in the WWE bubble like Seth, he thinks he's burying the guy.  The "Vince didn't push him, so therefore he wasn't good enough" philosophy. Fuckers are indoctrinated and institutionalised... most of them, anyway.

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I'm assuming Roman was just sent out to be good company guy and badmouth Punk because Vince is holding a grudge.  But he didn't say anything that was really false.  Rock moved the needle more, but that's true of virtually everyone in wrestling except Hogan and Austin.  And Punk basically left because he wanted Cena's spot and wasn't going to get it.  Again, not really a knock on Punk.  No one in the past 20 years really has been on Cena's level.

I'm curious to see what perception of Punk are like this go round.  Punk's been turned into a folk-hero since he retired, but Phil Brooks strikes me as a miserable guy who's a prick to deal with in real life.  Then again, maybe he's mellowed in the past 10 years.  Seems likely we'll find out starting tonight.

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The thing is, the question wasn’t even really about Punk. It was about how Roman felt about part-time guys and, specifically, his feelings on working with Cena in that context. He easily could’ve ignored the Punk reference in the setup to the question (which would’ve been the smart, media-savvy thing to do) and sold his match with Cena. Roman went out of his way to circle back to Punk and take a shit on him.

Edited by EVA
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1 hour ago, hammerva said:

All of these WWE employees and house organs like Reigns and now Peter Rosenberg crapping on Punk and I have to wonder how come I don't hear people shitting on the other more important person that is going to debut soon for AEW.  Unless that is still in the works and may still not happen.  If you wee going to make the dumb "he wasn't over" or "he didn't draw" or "he didn't make money" arguments, I would think they would choose Bryan over Punk

 

they know they'll never get punk back ever.

they might still believe they'll get bryan back someday.

i'd imagine that's part of it.

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17 minutes ago, Eoae said:

I'm assuming Roman was just sent out to be good company guy and badmouth Punk because Vince is holding a grudge.  But he didn't say anything that was really false.  Rock moved the needle more, but that's true of virtually everyone in wrestling except Hogan and Austin.  And Punk basically left because he wanted Cena's spot and wasn't going to get it.  Again, not really a knock on Punk.  No one in the past 20 years really has been on Cena's level.

I'm curious to see what perception of Punk are like this go round.  Punk's been turned into a folk-hero since he retired, but Phil Brooks strikes me as a miserable guy who's a prick to deal with in real life.  Then again, maybe he's mellowed in the past 10 years.  Seems likely we'll find out starting tonight.

no one can live up to the anticipation fans have whipped themselves up into over the last seven years.

him being there at all is more impressive/important than anything he actually does. (and the more they try to have him do, the more chances for reality to betray the hype)

of course, i assume everyone involved is smart enough to have this just be some sort of limited appearance and not give away his actual comeback match [rusty as it is likely to be] on TV.

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3 minutes ago, AxB said:

Fightful reckons the NXT & Full Sail partnership has ended.

I just posted this in the NXT thread but since you brought it up

From the new WON

Quote

NXT is taping at least over the next month ahead of time with the time off to upgrade the Performance Center. The relationship with Full Sail University is over and this is now the long-term home of the show. The angle with Samoa Joe and Karrion Kross tearing up the place was the storyline reason for the refurbishing. The plexiglass may be gone as WWE sent a survey out to fans asking if they like ir or don’t. The belief is that on television, the show looks too dark, so the idea is to make the studio brighter with more lights and more colorful looking. From a creative standpoint, the show is supposed to give the wrestling students and prospects more television time and less time to the experienced veterans and strong workers, which is a seismic shift in the goal of attempting to present the best wrestling show possible to being a developmental television show. That is the doctrine but how it plays out remains to be seen, but they do want the concept to be closer to the 2015 version of NXT.

 

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46 minutes ago, Eoae said:

I'm assuming Roman was just sent out to be good company guy and badmouth Punk because Vince is holding a grudge.  But he didn't say anything that was really false.

You're probably right -- and hell, maybe Roman still holds a grudge over not being in Punk's original hand-picked Shield lineup, and the "make Roman look tough" quip -- but I think the question is less "is what he said true?" than "is what he said useful?/what does it accomplish?" Because if he's heeling, then he's babyfacing another guy for another company; and if he's just stating a truth for it's own sake, then it's a pretty soft criticism (everyone knows Punk is a big enough star that WWE would have happily paid him millions for a comeback), and invites the question of whether Roman himself is a bigger deal than The Rock or Cena (and he's not). 

Edited by Beech27
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Just because... here is Meltzer... sorta defending Reigns (I bolded the parts where it is Dave writing just for clarity sake)

Quote

Helwani asked Reigns about the complaints regarding if there’s a big show they bring guys from the past back instead of using the guys who are there every night, noting Punk made that complaint. Reigns said he could see both sides. The deal is that unfortunately it is bringing people back that increases ratings, or at least certain people and the number is very small, and some of them can’t wrestle any longer. I’m not sure Batista would fit into this category and he seemed happy to go out as he did. But it’s really Goldberg and Cena and Goldberg is diminishing returns. Reigns did say, “These statements are coming from people who thought they were better than they were. C.M. Punk wasn’t as good or over as John Cena, he didn’t move the needle like The Rock.” His statement didn’t come off exactly like that reads, because it reads like a Punk burial and it was not that. And the reality is Punk wasn’t as big a star as Cena or move the needle like Cena or Rock, nor did Reigns or anyone else except Hogan and Austin in WWF/E. Regarding Jon Moxley, he said, “Dean’s (Ambrose) obviously doing what Dean’s doing, and I think he’s happy over there at AEW. But if he could’ve been the man here, he would’ve been the man here.” Well, that is legit one person’s decision and another person could have made a different decision. When it became clear when they broke up The Shield, I remember saying that Rollins was the best wrestler, that Reigns would get pushed the hardest and be portrayed as the biggest star, but the one with the most potential to be the top star was Ambrose because of his attitude and promo ability. But I also knew Reigns would be the Vince pick

 

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22 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

 but I think the question is less "is what he said true?" than "is what he said useful?/what does it accomplish?" 

Oh, I don't think it accomplishes anything.  Best case scenario, it looks petty.  Worse case scenario, WWE looks insecure and gives AEW bulletin board material to fire themselves up with.  But, like I said, I think Roman was just out being the good company man.  Maybe he dislikes Punk, but it wouldn't surprise me if Vince is playing puppeteer and has his hand up Roman' s backside (metaphorically speaking; get your minds out of the gutter) making Roman's lips move while he (Vince) talks.

Honestly, I thought the Moxley "if he could have been the man here, he would have been the man here" dig was more gratuitous.  

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10 minutes ago, For Great Justice said:

Speaking of Punk

If we accept HITC 98 as Jim Ross’s best piece of work ever, and the end of Bash at the Beach 96 as Tony’s (and I do on both), Punk’s entrance at MITB is Cole’s, right? He nailed it.

It just goes to reinforce that if you give Cole something good to work with.  He’ll deliver good commentary.  If he didn’t get saddled (while still green) with having to sell Mick Foleys first title win.  Especially, when we wanted that moment to be in someone else’s voice.  Cole would be much more highly thought of.  He has a decent resume when you count up his moments.

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33 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

You're probably right -- and hell, maybe Roman still holds a grudge over not being in Punk's original hand-picked Shield lineup, and the "make Roman look tough" quip -- but I think the question is less "is what he said true?" than "is what he said useful?/what does it accomplish?" Because if he's heeling, then he's babyfacing another guy for another company; and if he's just stating a truth for it's own sake, then it's a pretty soft criticism (everyone knows Punk is a big enough star that WWE would have happily paid him millions for a comeback), and invites the question of whether Roman himself is a bigger deal than The Rock or Cena (and he's not). 

There's no love lost between Punk and Roman, for reasons that have been killed, buried, and killed again.

Roman didn't say Punk wasn't over. He said he wasn't as over as Rock and Cena. That's true. He said he understood Punk's argument against bringing back part-time guys who are taking spots that could be used for younger, full-time talent (Roman has alluded to this in previous interviews where Punk wasn't mentioned, so he seems to actually feel that way). By noting how/why many of the part-time guys get those spots, he's indirectly implying that Punk would have been afforded a similar setup, had he stayed in WWE. Why Punk didn't stay has been exhausted 100 times over, so no need to rehash.

Nor did he put himself on Rock/Cena's level. The closest he came to that is by highlighting Cena's Hollywood career and how if Cena took time from his schedule to challenge Roman. Which is self-validation that he's the big catch in WWE today, but not going overboard with it.

I think Roman was speaking his truth while being fairly kayfabe. It may line up with Vince's POV, but I suspect it's something Roman feels and not merely because he's drinking the juice.

All this also rattles cages. For all the talk about 'new wrestling warz!'--this is red meat. I think Reigns understood that.

As for the Moxley quote, that was purely in character. He also mentioned how Seth was doing great but he wasn't the top guy, either. 

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32 minutes ago, Brandon Bones said:

It just goes to reinforce that if you give Cole something good to work with.  He’ll deliver good commentary.  If he didn’t get saddled (while still green) with having to sell Mick Foleys first title win.  Especially, when we wanted that moment to be in someone else’s voice.  Cole would be much more highly thought of.  He has a decent resume when you count up his moments.

Michael Cole's finest moment was when he brought out the gong on Season 3 of the original NXT.

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1 minute ago, odessasteps said:

Isn’t it a usual talking point that Cole can be fine when not over produced (like many people). 

that's what i usually hear. But IMO Cole is bland, generic, and even after 20 years he's still mediocre at his job. Whether that's due to Vince (or whoever) in his ear or not, i really don't care. 

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