TheVileOne Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 8 hours ago, DreamBroken said: I always thought Moxley did a great job coming off as "The Guy" in the summer of 2016 as WWE Champ, and then again in AEW through last year. My read on Ambrose/Moxley is that Moxley was the dude from The Shield who really organically got over because the fans got behind him when he embraced the grungy brawler act post-Shield. I think the problem with his WWE title run was not due to Moxley. Moxley was clearly busting his ass off to come off like a top guy, but WWE wasn't positioning him as the true top guy and face of the company. Moxley was treated like a transitional paper champion by WWE. He was the runner-up. His title run was an after-thought. And he never really sniffed the main again after he lost the belt. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StretchMediatedHypertrophy Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 2 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said: I can't imagine thinking Reigns is "bitter." Shackled to a subpar product, yes. But not bitter. Summerslam is tomorrow and noone cares. I don't think it takes much power of imagination. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 So what if Mox added elements of Stone Cold to his act? Top talents have always "borrowed" from their predecessors. Look what Hogan took from Superstar Graham and others. Ric Flair was not the first "Nature Boy". There are examples of this throughout wrestling history. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spontaneous Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 I honestly don't believe there is any sort of figure that will cross over and make pro wrestling popular again. I think it's as popular as it can reasonably get. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Maybe, but I don't think anyone thought the Ringmaster or Rocky Maivia in 1996 would take the WWF to crazy new heights just two years later. So, by that metric, Luther is going to take the wrestling world back to obscene levels of popularity in 2023. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jimbo_Tsuruta Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 27 minutes ago, Infinit said: So what if Mox added elements of Stone Cold to his act? Top talents have always "borrowed" from their predecessors. Look what Hogan took from Superstar Graham and others. Ric Flair was not the first "Nature Boy". There are examples of this throughout wrestling history. Agree it's as old as the hills. This post made me have a flash of him as Mox Baker and now I can't stop laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Of course wrestlers borrow from one another all the time. That was never in question. I never said that borrowing is bad in and of itself. But if you borrow, you'd better be able to pull off whatever elements that you're borrowing, which is a whole different argument that I don't care to get into re: Mox. I don't like his act, people disagree. I think that's fine. Like (or don't like) what you like! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) At this point, 6 or so years into the Roman experience, I think it’s clear that his ceiling is as a HHH-caliber guy—good top heel and someone fans will go along with as a top face, but not someone who’s going to draw and galvanize audiences behind him like your ideal top face would (AKA a Rock-caliber guy). Yes, WWE has bungled their attempts to push him as the top face many times over, but ultimately, I just don’t think he has that Rock/Austin/Cena/Hogan/etc. skill set. They would’ve been better off letting him be HHH (like they are now) and committing their energies to finding the next Top Guy rather than trying to force Roman as Top Guy to happen. Because now they’re in a situation where they have Roman as an ideal top heel but no next top face identified to build for him, and thus you end up with these soul-suckingly boring Smackdowns that are stuck in the mud because there is nowhere for the story to go (without throwing big money at Hollywood part-timers to come back for alleged dream matches). Edited August 21, 2021 by EVA 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Has Roman ever had a really electric promo moment? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 Added to YouTube two days ago. First time I've seen this in ages. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 27 minutes ago, Matt D said: Has Roman ever had a really electric promo moment? Only one that comes to mind through the circumstances: The opening to the post WrestleMania XXXIII RAW as Roman Reigns gets nuclear heat as we all thought he retired the Undertaker the night before. NSFW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Matt D said: Has Roman ever had a really electric promo moment? I don't know if that's what he should have though, part of why I like The Tribal Chief era is he gets to be this strong silent type who can make his points then let Heyman fill in the rest. I like that AEW is letting guys like Darby and Jungle Boy who are a little more soft spoken slowly moving toward higher spots and hopefully Roman can set the precedent that you don't have to be an S Tier promo to still tell a compelling story. (Even if "Acknowledge Me" does feel like "Notice Me, Sempai" when it gets worn out sometimes). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoae Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Matt D said: Has Roman ever had a really electric promo moment? The promo he he cut his first night back from leukemia? Thlough, if that’s the standard, who on the roster has had a “really electric promo moment?” Most of the roster either doesn’t have it in them or will never be put in a position to cut something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Honestly, I remember way more Enzo promos than Roman promos. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 21 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said: Beer City Bruiser is Ring of Honor's Steve Austin. "I ain't got not teeth" > "What?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoae Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 10 hours ago, RunningFromAmerica said: Summerslam is tomorrow and noone cares. I don't think it takes much power of imagination. We’ll, they didn’t have any trouble selling tickets, so I dunno how accurate it is to say that “no one cares”. This isn’t really the place to discuss WWE unless you subscribe to the theory that everything Vince does is terrible. I just assume that, for the most part, people who want to discuss WWE without being attacked or insulted have moved on and found somewhere else to discuss the shows. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peck Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Ariel Helwani has a sit-down interview with Nick Khan coming out in the near future. That should be interesting, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo Necro Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 4 hours ago, The Natural said: Added to YouTube two days ago. First time I've seen this in ages. IWA:MS Punk was the most fun version of CM Punk we ever had. He always seemed to enjoy himself there. Whether it was his Hero feud, commentating on the KOTDM or whatever. He always seemed to be having a good time. TK kind of has that Ian Rotten spirit of ‘I’ll just book whatever I want and to hell with anyone else”. I’m hoping that bodes well. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, Eoae said: This isn’t really the place to discuss WWE unless you subscribe to the theory that everything Vince does is terrible. I just assume that, for the most part, people who want to discuss WWE without being attacked or insulted have moved on and found somewhere else to discuss the shows. (OK, I'm sure it's happened, but it's not been a regular thing here whatsoever and the mods here are pretty on top of cracking down on abusive behavior. What's happened is that people who like WWE have gone to places who are also enthusiastic about the current product, though people here have been enthusiastic about the product plenty - The Hurt Business, Drew McIntyre, Roman Reigns, etc. When it's an act that is generally thought of as good, *gasp*, people praise it! Any migration away from here re: WWE is just people who hate their favorite company being criticized.) 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 I don’t think people here are generally attacked (despite some of the people here that seem to have persecution complexes), but the overall tone is definitely anti the WWF product and it’s business practices, anti Vince/Dunn/Bruce … (not that I necessarily disagree mind you) people here and elsewhere have been waiting 20 years for a viable alternative and they presumably have it now, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coletti Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Even if the people who watch and enjoy WWE aren't personally run down for their fandom, it's surely grating to constantly hear others say how bad the product is. Personally I don't get the idea of watching something you dislike, let alone using the energy to then post about it. At the same time, I'm probably not the only person here who stopped watching WWE and therefore doesn't contribute to those show threads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Talking about WWE's product is old-fashioned. Taking part in a robust psychodrama where you work through your feelings about WWE while presumably discussing something else is all the rage. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 They probably hear it enough in these general discussion threads, tbh. I don't read the RAW or Smackdown or NXT threads, typically, though they tend not to have many posts in the first place from what I can tell. I think the last one I read was when Bobby Lashley became champ, which I found out in the general discussion thread in the first place. I haven't seen a WWE show in five years, so I'm in your lane, @christopher.annino . While I don't watch individual shows, I do know via osmosis what the company is up to, and I feel as though I can comment on that without having to watch the product closely. I will say that I actually don't have a problem with people finding places that are more enthusiastic about the product to post at. It makes sense! People want to share their joy with others! I just feel the need to push back at a) the idea that people are attacked for liking WWE here, and b) that this board is some vortex of completely negative hivemind toward WWE programming. People here still get excited about different workers on the show all the time. In fact, I have unpopular opinions re: AEW, which is loved here, and while people challenge those opinions, they're not shitty about it. Being challenged on your takes =/= some sort of heinous attack. This is a discussion board. Formulating and defending a position is part of discussion. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Yeah, I think people are mostly civil here, but I do feel like there’s been a bit more of a general anti-WWE sentiment the last couple of years. I don’t really mind as, like others, I’ve completely lost enthusiasm for WWE. Although I do find some of the throwaway ‘everything WWE is bad’ style posts pretty pointless and tedious (‘how did WWE fuck this person up’, etc.). And with that there can be a tendency towards revisionism, which has lead to some pretty ridiculous takes like ‘the PC hasn’t produced anyone good’ (I feel like the exaggerated improvement of Tay Conti is a spin-off of this). But yeah, when there’s actual discussion I think the board is still pretty balanced on WWE. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StretchMediatedHypertrophy Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Eoae said: We’ll, they didn’t have any trouble selling tickets, so I dunno how accurate it is to say that “no one cares”. This isn’t really the place to discuss WWE unless you subscribe to the theory that everything Vince does is terrible. I just assume that, for the most part, people who want to discuss WWE without being attacked or insulted have moved on and found somewhere else to discuss the shows. As you point out, the statement taken literally obviously wouldn't be an accurate statement and thus obviously the statement was meant figuratively - and I think people know broadly what I'm getting at with such a statement. I didn't actually make any statement about the quality of the product. Whatever vibe I might give off, I don't think I really resemble some guy who spends a lot of time criticising the current WWE product - some of it is cool. FWIW, I think is that WWE is basically in a not entire dissimilar position to The Simpsons. And obviously I am quite aware that The Simpsons is still a money-making juggernaut that would continue to make big money even if it did end, and it's still going to be making more money by making new episodes as long as they remain at least ok, sometimes good, even if occasional dud. And whilst there have been modern Simpsons defenders on the subforums here, I think people would generally understand what the statement 'Noone cares about The Simpsons anymore' means. I'm not going to tell someone that they shouldn't enjoy modern Simpsons if they do so, and look, if you personally genuinely care about Roman Reigns vs John Cena and Goldberg vs Lashley etc then I'm happy for you in all honesty, and if you just plain watch it and are successfully entertained then the same applies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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