EVA Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 I mean, in the 2021 TV landscape, everything besides the NFL is niche, right down to the brand of news you consume. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 If everything is niche, then nothing is niche. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said: This doesn't mean that the mob is correct, of course, but it is telling that apparently quite a few people think that Mox is evoking Austin in 1997. I think it's more of folks seeing how he debuted in AEW and thinking "well, he can be their Steve Austin", which isn't fair really. He's their Jon Moxley. I feel like if you had a Venn diagram for people who cross into Austin territory, you would get a lot of names. Why? They let Austin do a lot of things in a five year span when they started to ramp up doing crazy shit and pushing the envelope. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 It took WWE like eight years and a fucking heel turn to make people care about Roman Reigns as a main eventer, I don't even know why we're having this conversation. 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, EVA said: I mean, in the 2021 TV landscape, everything besides the NFL is niche, right down to the brand of news you consume. I don't really agree with this. The NBA is clearly not niche even if it doesn't get NBA-on-NBC Saturday afternoon game ratings because of the fragmentation of television. For that matter, CBS can still churn out bonafide sitcom hits like BBT or HIMYM even in a fragmented market. Surely, there are multiple points in between "mainstream hit" and "niche interest," no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoae Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: Lol @ "didn't move the needle as much as The Rock" So what does that mean? Only 2-3 guys in history should be celebrated as needle movers? Well, no, but that was Roman's actual comment. And that was the crux of the issue - Punk was more over than all but one or two guys in the company, was pushed harder than all but one or two guys in the company, and was making both himself and Vince more money than all but one or two guys in the company. And he wasn't satisfied with that, so he retired. There were other issues, of course, but the "glass ceiling" seems to have been the deal-breaker. Lol, I forgot how tiresome Punk debates were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Beer City Bruiser is Ring of Honor's Steve Austin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: I think it's more of folks seeing how he debuted in AEW and thinking "well, he can be their Steve Austin", which isn't fair really. He's their Jon Moxley. I feel like if you had a Venn diagram for people who cross into Austin territory, you would get a lot of names. Why? They let Austin do a lot of things in a five year span when they started to ramp up doing crazy shit and pushing the envelope. I think it's also just the way archetypes and the critical vocabulary that results develops and atrophies over time, in the same way that "Kafkaesque" has been about the least useful thing you can say about a surreal or nightmarish piece of prose fiction for years. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Eoae said: There were other issues, of course, but the "glass ceiling" seems to have been the deal-breaker. I just re-listened to the Cabana podcast(s) last week, and I don't know if this is entirely true. A lot of it seems to stem from him repeatedly telling management and medical staff that he was hurt, and them refusing to do anything about it in his side of the story. Vince calling immediately after he gets discharged from the hospital after knee surgery, and booking him in 3 weeks for a TLC match against Ryback on RAW, shit like that. He was also outselling Cena in merch at the peak of his babyface run in 2011/2012, had various outside deals ready to go but WWE swooped in and replaced him with other people when he told them about it (Slim Jim being the one that sticks out to me right now). It's less "glass ceiling", and more "you weren't supposed to get THIS over, let's cool it down". And gross negligence when it came to his health and wellbeing. And then there's the whole "talked to Triple H two days before my wedding, and then suddenly an overnight FedEx delivery is on my doorstep on my wedding day letting me know I'm fired", and that's after Vince lied to investors telling them Punk was on a sabbatical when Punk had quit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said: Surely, there are multiple points in between "mainstream hit" and "niche interest," no? Probably but you are the person who said wrestling is "niche". Personally i would say that neither WWE or AEW are niche because they do too well to be niche. But that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 11 minutes ago, Casey said: It took WWE like eight years and a fucking heel turn to make people care about Roman Reigns as a main eventer, I don't even know why we're having this conversation. No, they've cared since at least 2015. People being salty pissbabies because he wasn't Daniel Bryan is a form of caring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: Probably but you are the person who said wrestling is "niche". Personally i would say that neither WWE or AEW are niche because they do too well to be niche. But that's me. I don't think that I ever said that there are only two possibilities, "niche" or "mainstream," and therefore since wrestling isn't mainstream, it must be niche, so I'm not sure what your post is trying to assert. Are you just disagreeing with me that wrestling is niche and that you would classify it otherwise? OK, sure, that's cool. Agree to disagree. Edited August 20, 2021 by SirSmellingtonofCascadia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.K.o.S. Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 45 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: Lol @ "didn't move the needle as much as The Rock" So what does that mean? Only 2-3 guys in history should be celebrated as needle movers? Haven't read the whole discussion, so sorry if this has been covered. My understanding was Roman was being asked something like "In your SummerSlam match, Cena is coming back as a part-timer and taking a main event spot. When CM Punk was in WWE, he said he had a problem with that, like when the Rock came back and did it. How do you feel about that?" and Roman's answer was basically "If the part-timer is more of a needle mover than the full-time guys, then it makes sense for the part-timer to get the main event spot." Obviously taking a jab at Punk was a bonus, but he wasn't trying to deliver the biggest possible slam on Punk. He was answering a question. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.K.o.S. Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Also it makes sense to bring Punk into it because if he doesn't, then his answer becomes something like "part-timer Cena is more over than any other full-timer on the WWE roster" and now Roman's burying his own company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 I always thought Moxley did a great job coming off as "The Guy" in the summer of 2016 as WWE Champ, and then again in AEW through last year. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarrie Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 On a board where people constantly (and accurately IMO) assert that WWE can screw up any can't-miss prospect, do we really have people arguing that WWE's difficulties getting Roman Reigns over as the company ace are an indictment of Reigns and not WWE? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiztor Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, tbarrie said: On a board where people constantly (and accurately IMO) assert that WWE can screw up any can't-miss prospect, do we really have people arguing that WWE's difficulties getting Roman Reigns over as the company ace are an indictment of Reigns and not WWE? i guess the question becomes: how would a different company (AEW or anyone else) book Reigns to be a breakout star and THE GUY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 By making his run to the main event be as a heel. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafkonia Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 2 hours ago, twiztor said: i guess the question becomes: how would a different company (AEW or anyone else) book Reigns to be a breakout star and THE GUY? They wouldn't. He's not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StretchMediatedHypertrophy Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Moxley/'Dean' emerging as the actual guy from The Shield was not what was supposed to happen, so WWE treated it as a borderline irritation. Roman wasn't The Guy. Now he's miffed because he finally found something and isn't such an obvious lame (that glove is pretty stupid though), but now of course 'Dean' has helped create competition that exposes WWE as a whole as super lame. Of course he's bitter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 13 hours ago, BobbyWhioux said: in fact, he should start in on Bryan too. "he left and he even changed his name to get away from how much better than him I already proved I am." etc etc. oh, the twitter rage he could spark by implying that the WWE Name is the real name and someone's actual name is the alias they're trying to hide under. Would be pleased to see it. Case in point, Reigns telling Bryan to go "hug a tree, be a dad" in the most condescending way possible. If WWE let Roman Reigns act like this when fans started becoming lukewarm to his main event babyface run in 2015, I think Reigns would be an even bigger star and draw today. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jimbo_Tsuruta Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Vince is going to be at Arthur Ashe flicking the lights on and off isn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 I can't imagine thinking Reigns is "bitter." Shackled to a subpar product, yes. But not bitter. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shartnado Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Ace said: By making his run to the main event be as a heel. In 2015. ...exactly like The Vile One alluded to on the previous page, but I hadn't gotten that far yet. Edited August 21, 2021 by Shartnado The Vile One made the same point also 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Mox isn't a SCSA tribute act... he's just a dude who looks like his pants smell like pee. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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