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July 2021 Wrestling Discussion.


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1 hour ago, supremebve said:

I'd much rather have another Mae Young Classic.  

I'd actually like them to do both. I like the idea of one tournament focused on the main roster while the other uses outside and PC talent.

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1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

Meltzer dropped one line in the new WON saying the WWE is interested in bringing Braun Strowman back, especially in light of the recent AEW signings

Seems that was always the plan when they released him, bring him back on a much reduced contract.

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Nothing good can come from going back to a job at a much reduced salary.  They are looking you dead in the eye and telling you that they don't value you as an employee.

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1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

Meltzer dropped one line in the new WON saying the WWE is interested in bringing Braun Strowman back, especially in light of the recent AEW signings

Disregarding if this is true or not, I still think firing Braun last month was monumentally stupid. Braun may not be the best worker and he may have peaked in popularity a few years ago, but he's been a reliable performer and talent for the company. Up to freaking May 2021, he was still in world title main events. You don't f'n cut a guy you are still booking in world title main events a month later because of budget cuts. 

The fact is now guys like Lashley and Braun have even less ready-made contenders to face, and Braun can easily be plugged into any program or title program. Look at WrestleMania 36, when Reigns had to go on hiatus, Braun was the one who picked up the slack during the pandemic era. Maybe WWE thought that Braun was overpriced, but a talent like that still has value.

Why get rid of a legit big man and main event talent if you don't have to? It's just dumb BS.

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1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

They didn't have energy drinks back then, so... 😉

I feel like an ex-boss invented energy drinks back in the 90's when he tilted the edge of the coffee table so all the cocaine slid off into a glass, then poured himself a Jack and Coke and drank the thing.

Sadly, he didn't remember any of that the next morning so he didn't get rich off the idea.  The cops came to break up the party and found him face down in another pile of coke and arrested him.  Guess he had other things on his mind.

Edited by Eoae
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3 hours ago, supremebve said:

I'm of the opinion that killing someone after being spat upon is 100% justified, so I can't blame her for never watching wrestling again.  It's one of the most disgusting, disrespectful actions I can think of, and I may very well have started a riot if someone spit on my significant other.  I'm generally not an angry person, but spitting is where I draw the line.  

Kingston apologized but I think he was forced to. Could be wrong. I love Norm Connors and it wasn't his fault or responsibility. It was all on Eddie.  There are better ways to get heat. I know a lot of people root for him as if he's the underdog but I lost a shit ton of respect for Kingston that night. 

 

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1 hour ago, Eoae said:

Going back to WWE (presumably for less money) seems like a better fit for Stroman than the indies or overseas, but I'd still be curious to see what developed for him outside of WWE.  To me, he feels like a guy like Enzo or Ryback, who has interests outside of wrestling and maybe is more interested in being a WWE superstar and making WWE money than  in wrestling in whatever small feds will book them (which is probably why you rarely hear from some guys after WWE releases them).  IRRC, Braun is 100 percent a product of the WWE system.  I don't think he had any experience before WWE signed him (they found him through strongman contests).

A while back, Meltzer threw out that Vince should fire everyone except the big names and can't-miss prospects, then wait a year and see where guys go and how they develop.  Meltz's theory is that the guys who really want to wrestle and/or get back to the WWE will try to improve and keep working and will become regulars in Japan and on the indies, while the people who just want to be WWE stars or make WWE money won't work the indies or overseas and basically will move on to something else.  Dave thought the guys that became working wrestlers were the guys worth bringing back and the other guys were probably just in it for WWE money and wouldn't be worth the long-term investment anyways.  

 

At the NEW show in Rostraver (Pittsburgh)  Enzo and Cass had a consistently long line of people to meet them paying $40 for an auto or $60 for Auto and picture.  The line always had a good ammt of people waiting to meet them and I'm sure they made a good ammt of $$.  Stroman could do this and maybe power slam a local indy guy every 2 weeks and make some bank if AEW or NJPW don't want him.  Why go back to WWE? I questioned Hero, I question Zelina,.  Why go back to a place that didn't want you the first time?  Especially when it's only been 2 months. Companies don't suddenly admit "oh we fucked up come back to us"  And even if they did why would you want to go back?

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10 minutes ago, paintedbynumbers said:

And even if they did why would you want to go back?

In my opinion, this is kind of WWE using the evolution of the business to their advantage, in that the last generation or two actually grew up wanting to be wrestlers with WWE as the endgame. These aren't bodybuilders and football players who came for what they thought would be easier money like the 70s-early 90s. So what happens is, it becomes easier for WWE to sell the workers on shitty unfair contracts for less money under the guise of GET THAT WM MOMENT! GRAB THE BRASS RING AND FULFILL THE BOYHOOD DREAM! 

Edit: this always happens! What @AxBsaid more succinctly. Gotta work on my brevity

Edited by Zakk_Sabbath
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Would they be able to re-sell Braun on the "WWE Dream" after he was so unceremoniously dumped? With the threat of signing with AEW, why would he accept a lowball offer?

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45 minutes ago, paintedbynumbers said:

At the NEW show in Rostraver (Pittsburgh)  Enzo and Cass had a consistently long line of people to meet them paying $40 for an auto or $60 for Auto and picture.  The line always had a good ammt of people waiting to meet them and I'm sure they made a good ammt of $$.  Stroman could do this and maybe power slam a local indy guy every 2 weeks and make some bank if AEW or NJPW don't want him.  Why go back to WWE? I questioned Hero, I question Zelina,.  Why go back to a place that didn't want you the first time?  Especially when it's only been 2 months. Companies don't suddenly admit "oh we fucked up come back to us"  And even if they did why would you want to go back?

But can you make $500k a year working autograph signings and the odd indie date?  And how hard do you have to work to make that sort of money.  Stroman was making $1 mil from his WWE contract, so I'm guessing he'll resign for at least $500,000.  That's a lot of autographs.  I'm assuming Enzo and Cass are sharing that $40 with the promoter, so how many autographs do you have to sign to make $10k that weekend.  And.... if you do make $10K that weekend, are you going to be able to get bookings 50/52 weeks that pay you that same $10k?

I mean, it's doable.  Stroman is supposedly asking around that to book him, plus whatever he can make off merch and autograph sales.  Before he signed with WWE, Danielson claimed he was making more than WWE would have paid him from Japan tours, indie dates, Mexico, etc.  But..... he probably had to hustle pretty hard and not take time off to make that money.  I feel like most guys would have to work reallllly hard and never take a weekend off to make their WWE salaries, and even then, it probably would not be a sure thing and you'd be worrying about it constantly (if you needed the money to begin with).

The other unknowable is maybe he just likes WWE?  Some guys just like their coworkers, want to perform in front of 12.000 people instead of 420, want a guaranteed salary instead of lining up indie dates every week, etc.  I'm trying to picture what I'd do if I was asked to take a pay cut by my employer, and I'd probably do it?  Hard to say since it's never come up, but I like my coworkers, I enjoy my job, feel pretty loyal to the company, etc.  I also have a lot of small perks that I'd hate to give up.  I think I could find a new job without much stress if I had too, but the little perks like having time to run home for lunch with my wife (I live 10 min from my office) would probably make staying the better option.

Not everyone is wired the same and we don’t know enough about Braun’s home life or finances to even guess about what he wants to do and why.

Edited by Eoae
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1 hour ago, Infinit said:

Would they be able to re-sell Braun on the "WWE Dream" after he was so unceremoniously dumped? With the threat of signing with AEW, why would he accept a lowball offer?

This is one of those instances where feelings over ride business sense. I don't mean that on Braun's behalf. I mean that on WWE's behalf. We'll probably never know for sure, but the way they panic I would not be surprised to learn Braun got a better deal this time than last. He has all the leverage. WWE just lost out on a few big negotiations. Braun has interest from AEW. If he has an agent or a lick of business sense he would be negotiating from a position of power. Sure I'll come back but not for anything less than 1.5x what my previous contract was. If they walk, who cares? They didn't value him in the first place and AEW would give him at least the same money number he had previously I would bet.

It's hard to say WWE is bad at business. They grew to a publicly traded corporation with a multi billion dollar valuation. But they still make bad business decisions some times. And this feels like one of those times an erratic McMahon edict will over ride the smart business decision.

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I dug through some old reports of WWE salaries a few weeks ago. Samoa Joe was listed as making $800,000 for 2019 and 2020. I love the guy, but of course he was released. I'd cut him too. His firing and re-hiring makes sense given the numbers and given his role. If Braun was making $1.5M+ like reported... he's a guy who probably doesn't want to tour Japan or Mexico. He's viewed as a product of WWE's size-fetish system and might not jibe with AEW's fanbase. His social media comments + reputation for being difficult to work equals backstage baggage that devalues him. Say you work for WWE and you're cutting costs - why not let the guy go for a few months? Let Braun realize that there isn't any worthwhile interest for him anywhere else. Sign him back at 800K and add a no-cut clause that his prior contract lacked, bet on the idea that he doesn't have any better deals. If anybody deserves it it's Braun.

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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I'm with ya on the reasoning there from their point of view. But WWE won't do no cut clauses. They are rigid as hell on the format of their contracts. They will never give anyone that kind of leverage. They are terrified of an Austin going home situation where they are still on the hook to pay the guy. Never say never, but even still I am confident in saying that will never happen.

So what incentive would Braun have to sign for less? It's already been reported AEW wants him. I have no earthly idea what money figure they would assign to him. But his social media posts ect all aren't going to preclude AEW from signing him. If they stick with only one certain type of signing they will never grow. You need to cast a wide net to capture all demographics. The circus approach, something for everyone. And I mean come on Jerichos wife stormed the capitol... how are any of Braun's meathead tweets worse than that?

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27 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I'm with ya on the reasoning there from their point of view. But WWE won't do no cut clauses. They are rigid as hell on the format of their contracts. They will never give anyone that kind of leverage. They are terrified of an Austin going home situation where they are still on the hook to pay the guy. Never say never, but even still I am confident in saying that will never happen.

So what incentive would Braun have to sign for less? It's already been reported AEW wants him. I have no earthly idea what money figure they would assign to him. But his social media posts ect all aren't going to preclude AEW from signing him. If they stick with only one certain type of signing they will never grow. You need to cast a wide net to capture all demographics. The circus approach, something for everyone. And I mean come on Jerichos wife stormed the capitol... how are any of Braun's meathead tweets worse than that?

Jericho built up a mountain of goodwill with IWC fans that even his doo-doo politics can't erase. Braun is on the other side of that line. The AEW interest hasn't seemed to pan out since the original report, seemed like more of a Mark Henry thing than anything else. More importantly, if rumors are to be believed, the coming months would be a horrible time for Braun to debut & I don't know if AEW would want to spend that kind of money on an expensive Braun Strowman if he's only going to be their kayfabe third biggest debut & living in the shadow of the two biggest indie darlings of, I dunno, all time. I don't know if they'll even have room in their budget.

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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15 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I'm with ya on the reasoning there from their point of view. But WWE won't do no cut clauses. They are rigid as hell on the format of their contracts. They will never give anyone that kind of leverage. They are terrified of an Austin going home situation where they are still on the hook to pay the guy. Never say never, but even still I am confident in saying that will never happen.

My understanding is Meltzer was reporting at the time Braun was cut that a few big names have a no-cut clause. I may be misremembering though.

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Problem with Braun is that he’s a Ryback type. He’ll charge a shit ton for appearances that make promoters walk away. That’s the kind of guy that isn’t willing to make compromises to get people in the business to like him. It’s not worth getting somebody like that who is a companion piece.

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Braun in AEW would probably rule and what they see as their core audience working themselves into a shoot over him breathing their air would make for some exciting dynamics. So of course I expect him to go back to WWE and deprive us of that fun.

Looking at a company that employs Jake Hager, Jim Ross, and Chris "in 6 months they’ll probably be asking us for a job anyways and I’ll remember that (Shotzi)" Jericho (and soon, famously-chill dude CM Punk), I can't imagine Braun would be any more of a headache or source of potential acrimony. 

Edited by John from Cincinnati
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