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July 2021 Wrestling Discussion.


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16 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

all that aside, though, I am sick to god damn death of SHOCKED FACE kickouts in modern wrestling.  (AEW certainly isn't the only sinner here or even necessarily the most repeat offender but boy do they do their fair share of it early and often)

The only thing shocking about shocking kickouts is that any ostensible professional is still shocked by them.

I don't know what's worse: The homogeneity of global wrestling in 2021 or that said homogeneity ended up coalescing around the worst traits and tropes in pro wrestling. 

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1 hour ago, BobbyWhioux said:

all that aside, though, I am sick to god damn death of SHOCKED FACE kickouts in modern wrestling.  (AEW certainly isn't the only sinner here or even necessarily the most repeat offender but boy do they do their fair share of it early and often)

The only thing shocking about shocking kickouts is that any ostensible professional is still shocked by them.

I remember someone here , saying that Rock and Austin brought that psychology to Mainstream American wrestling in '99.  I wonder would it still be a thing if Bret never left. I see Bret wanting to protect his finish going against those guys. 

 

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4 hours ago, BobbyWhioux said:

all that aside, though, I am sick to god damn death of SHOCKED FACE kickouts in modern wrestling.  (AEW certainly isn't the only sinner here or even necessarily the most repeat offender but boy do they do their fair share of it early and often)

The only thing shocking about shocking kickouts is that any ostensible professional is still shocked by them.

Wrestling needs less Shawn Michaels influence. Bret Hart over Shawn Michaels by far.

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Shocked face has even invaded New Japan. A country that popularized near falls in the first place, but the reactions of wrestlers were more of annoyance, then dramatic shock. It’s an incurable cancer at this point. 
 

Why can’t wrestling have the good kind of cancer anymore, like “Whoop there it is”?

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The best near fall all year was Ciampa kicking out of I believe a lariat vs Walter. Walter didn't look around aghast. He looked a little frustrated, clutched his injured hand and went back to it.

The 1, 2, kick out O face is the laugh track of wrestling. If you have to tell me it's funny, it's probably not. Especially when it's after a move that person has never won with. "How did he kick out of the move I've never won with at any point in time!?"

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So what I'm hearing is, it's a spot ripe for parody. We need Danhausen or someone to hit an Arm Drag in the first 20 seconds, go for a pin and then pull a "horrified and disgusted like never before" face in a comedically overblown fashion. Walk out of the match because his opponent is obviously cheating, because kicking out of an armdrag should be illegal.

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2 hours ago, Spontaneous said:

The best near fall all year was Ciampa kicking out of I believe a lariat vs Walter. Walter didn't look around aghast. He looked a little frustrated, clutched his injured hand and went back to it.

The 1, 2, kick out O face is the laugh track of wrestling. If you have to tell me it's funny, it's probably not. Especially when it's after a move that person has never won with. "How did he kick out of the move I've never won with at any point in time!?"

I feel like if you really want to set yourself apart as a badass wrestler nowadays, you do what Walter did there.  "I've got this under control.  Now try to kick out of this."  

I've said it before, but Shawn Michaels has ruined modern wrestling.  Even as a babyface, he was whiny as hell.  So many of today's wrestlers idolized him and that's one of the bad traits they've picked up on.  A tough babyface shouldn't be whining to the ref that it was a three count.  They should get back to work winning the match.

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2 hours ago, AxB said:

So what I'm hearing is, it's a spot ripe for parody. We need Danhausen or someone to hit an Arm Drag in the first 20 seconds, go for a pin and then pull a "horrified and disgusted like never before" face in a comedically overblown fashion. Walk out of the match because his opponent is obviously cheating, because kicking out of an armdrag should be illegal.

Heenan:  "no one's ever kicked out of his side headlock before!"

Monsoon:  "Brain, he's never gone for the pin after a side headlock before, you're not going to put away a professional athlete with a side headlock."

Heenan:  "I won with a side headlock once."

Monsoon:  "HIGHLY UNLIKELY, in my book."

Heenan:  "In fact I once made a guy give up during pre-match instrutions."

Monsoon: "PLEASE, will you stop?"

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1 hour ago, BobbyWhioux said:

Heenan:  "no one's ever kicked out of his side headlock before!"

Monsoon:  "Brain, he's never gone for the pin after a side headlock before, you're not going to put away a professional athlete with a side headlock."

Heenan:  "I won with a side headlock once."

Monsoon:  "HIGHLY UNLIKELY, in my book."

Heenan:  "In fact I once made a guy give up during pre-match instrutions."

Monsoon: "PLEASE, will you stop?"

That would actually be cool! Somebody thinking again, coming to his or her senses and giving up during the ref's instructions!

"I'm probably not going to win this match and I don't really hate you all that much. I'll fight someone else,  next time! "

Edited by Shartnado
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(second half of that is a real Monsoon/Heenan exchange, actually:  HBK vs Tito to open WM8)

1 minute ago, Shartnado said:

That would actually be cool! Somebody thinking again, coming to his or her senses and giving up during the ref's instructions!

Closest I've ever seen was when WCW did a hair vs hair match with heel Eddie vs "crazy" Chavo (of eventual Pepe the Hobby Horse fame), in which Chavo gave up in the first minute to a hammerlock so he could shave his own head and deny evil Eddy the satisfaction.

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Seems WWE will test out more bullshit and junk, reportedly Raw Roulette, Legends Night, and the King of the Ring are all returning this year.

Edited by D.Z
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3 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

I think your memory is off. They did wrestle a hair match at the Bash but it was 20 minutes long. Chavito did shave his own head though. (Crazy Chavo is the only time I liked him, btw)

so it is.  could've sworn it was shorter than that.

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knowing WCW they probably did something dumb like have Eddie vs Chavo for free on Nitro the night after having Eddie vs Chavo on PPV and those two separate bouts are now forever conflated in my brain

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54 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

(second half of that is a real Monsoon/Heenan exchange, actually:  HBK vs Tito to open WM8)

Closest I've ever seen was when WCW did a hair vs hair match with heel Eddie vs "crazy" Chavo (of eventual Pepe the Hobby Horse fame), in which Chavo gave up in the first minute to a hammerlock so he could shave his own head and deny evil Eddy the satisfaction.

right angle, right event, wrong match. Chavo faced Stevie Ray as a warm-up to his match vs. Eddie. He tapped out to a handshake.

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48 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

knowing WCW they probably did something dumb like have Eddie vs Chavo for free on Nitro the night after having Eddie vs Chavo on PPV and those two separate bouts are now forever conflated in my brain

Before the Eddie match, Chavo was supposed to wrestle Stevie Ray. Eddie was all cocky that Chavo would be beaten down before their match so Chavo submitted to Stevie during a handshake after the opening bell rung so he'd be fresh for Eddie

 

 

Edited by GodzillaPerez
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1 minute ago, twiztor said:

right angle, right event, wrong match. Chavo faced Stevie Ray as a warm-up to his match vs. Eddie. He tapped out to a handshake.

Crazy like a fox, then.

This has long been my idea for how the face outsmarts the heel’s trap of Have My Stablemate Soften Him Up For The Title Bout. Tap out/Get Dqed immediately so the henchman never gets a chance to inflict the injury. And when the mastermind cries foul you have the face pieface him in the usual manner and praise his intellect

soldiering on when there’s nothing to win and everything to lose isn’t valorous, it’s dumb

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4 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Pre-sale for Smackdown at MSG on 9/10/21 is going on now. 

Ticketmaster code is GARDEN

Prices ranging from $50-$500, so it's standard WWE pricing. 

I just saw floor tickets for $1400. Crazy.

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19 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

Crazy like a fox, then.

This has long been my idea for how the face outsmarts the heel’s trap of Have My Stablemate Soften Him Up For The Title Bout. Tap out/Get Dqed immediately so the henchman never gets a chance to inflict the injury. And when the mastermind cries foul you have the face pieface him in the usual manner and praise his intellect

soldiering on when there’s nothing to win and everything to lose isn’t valorous, it’s dumb

I have in my head that WWE ran this exact angle on a random RAW a few years back. I'll be damned if I could tell who the wrestlers involved were exactly, I just remember the bell ringing, the "end boss" heel on commentary gloating about how his opponent is going to be softened up, and the face then immediately kicking the first opponent in the groin to end the match on a DQ.

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