Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

WEDNESDAY Night Dynamite - 6/30/2021


Recommended Posts

55 minutes ago, christopher.annino said:

JR could also just stop comparing wrestlers now to people that half the watching audience doesn't know/give a fuck about and put them over for what they're currently doing... 

I mean, yeah, the chances that most of us might catch who he's referring to are pretty high, but we're nerds.

The chances that the average viewer is going to know the name of someone who's been dead for 30+ years is extremely slim.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pet theory - we know what a huge Mid South mark Tony K is. It's probably the first thing he wants to talk to JR about most days. Name dropping Butch Reed (another guy JR called a zillion matches of) is his way of keeping the boss happy.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's nostalgic to hear Jim Ross open up the show and run down the card but he brings nothing else to the shows at this point. As a casual viewer he just seems so disdainful of everything around him. He has little interest in the action and doesn't really fill a role on commentary.

He may not be a racist but as someone who's lived in the South their entire life he rides the line with his comments about black wrestlers. I'm surprised he didn't get more heat when he referred to some wrestlers as "orientals" last year. 

Cut him loose and let him do as he will. I think he could serve a purpose as a interviewer/ big match announcer but it seems that's not what he wants. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Having grown up on JR's commentary and then discovered Mid-South, I wish he could mask his antipathy for much of the product and just throw himself into it, faking the fire in his belly. I'm sure he's paid enough to try harder. Yes this isn't his idea of great wrestling most of the time, but so what? There's alot about AEW I'm not really high on but I want the lead commentator to sound like he gives a fuck. If Cornette was working for AEW, I bet we wouldn't see him cutting half-arsed promos, he'd have some professional pride and put his back into it. Taz/Tony, Taz/Excalibur, Tony/Excalibur with JR doing sit-downs. Not rocket science is it?

Edited by Jimbo_Tsuruta
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't get the whole defense people have made of keeping JR in the booth because he's the greatest announcer of all time. Don Shula is the greatest NFL head coach of all time, but if he was still alive I wouldn't want him coaching my team in 2021. Eventually everyone loses what made them great. My guess is that they'll let JR's contract run out and part ways with him giving him a nice send off on TV. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally do not take issue with Guevara-Gino Hernandez comparison along racial lines, and while I do not see the comparison myself, fair points to those that can. My bigger issue with that is Guevara is an emerging big babyface, and unfortunately there was not a whole lot likable about Gino. The Eddie Guerrero comparison is much more flattering, and also a bit more applicable.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'll say this:

Watching Houston Wrestling footage, which is the territory where Gino was lead heel for many years, in the same way Buddy Rose was in Portland or Jerry Lawler was the main guy in Memphis, they really didn't make a big deal out of his ethnicity in the text itself. I'm not saying the people of Houston may not have felt one way or another about him because of it, but it wasn't overt in how he was presented, in his promos, in Boesch's commentary (and you can read into that whatever you want) or in the jeers of the crowd. There's one match which has all latino talent and he's one of the six and it is presented as an attraction, and it feels weird because you watch dozens and dozens of his matches in Houston and it's such a non factor in all of them but that. It's not like Houston wasn't a territory with a bit ethnic fanbase either. They'd have guys cut promos in English and then in Spanish and would bring in people like Mil Mascaras (and not just) a lot.

I've seen less Gino in World Class, so maybe he was played up differently, but in Houston? It might have been subtext but it really wasn't the text itself. When he teamed with Tully, he may have been more manic or flamboyant or more of a loudmouth, but there was very little difference between how the two were presented. It wasn't like Manny Fernandez and Rick Rude where it was very overt or something.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm prepared to let people who've seen more Gino Hernandez than I go back and forth on whether the comparison between him and Sammy Guevara is valid or not. In fact, it's the kind of content I'm here for. I might even try and look up some Gino Hernandez later, see if I can see what people are on about.

I will say this though: Eddie Guerrero comparisons may very well be more flattering (I'd love to be compared to Eddie Guerrero in my daily life too,) I don't see it for Sammy. I don't see that their styles are really that similar, although Guerrero was a genius and everyone should be inspired by him. Guerrero also drew heavily on his Mexican heritage for his presentation* in a way that Guevara doesn't, apart from a nickname that was given to him Jericho. Sammy doesn't strut around with Cuban flags or anything like that, and yes, I had to look up what flags he might be bringing. They're both from Texas, their families are from a little further south and their names start with the same three letters.

* He did in America, anyway. Los Gringos Locos were all about them Stars and Stripes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never been the biggest fan of Jim Ross, but there is a certain use to the guy when you're trying to feature young guys like Guerrera, MJF and Jungle Boy in main-events. The truth is...good non-colour wrestling commentators (I get JR isn't really play-by-play at this point) don't grow on trees. Hell Khan is basically paying Wight and Henry a small fortune in the hope one of them becomes the next Gorilla Monsoon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Eoae said:

I guess one of us should call TNT and let them someone on one of their shows is a racist.  Somehow, they seem to have not noticed.

This is no way to talk about Allie LaForce, I don't care what Twitter wormhole you've been down.

... oh, you don't mean her? Never mind then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, Sammy Guevara. Texan, good looking, small heavyweight (by the standards of his era), can fly around very well (by era standards) but works a balanced style, does an underdog selling style as a babyface and an arrogant poseur style as a heel, and has a finisher that's a power move involving lifting the opponent.

Sammy Guevara is like Shawn Michaels, innit?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to throw my two cents in on the JR topic. I really don't believe the guy is a racist just because of the amount of talent he has had to deal with in his career. That's not to say that an old timer like him doesn't have bad habits still kicking around, but I don't necessarily think he has any ill intentions or is wanting to hold anybody back just because of the color of their skin.

HOWEVER, as far as JR being a horny old man, I see that on my timeline every day. I can't speak to Foley as I don't follow him nor was aware of his history, but whenever I get some scantily clad picture of a diva from back in the day pop up with "Jim Ross Liked" it makes me shudder. It's like your grandfather trying to mack on college kids. I'm surprised nobody's told him "hey Jim, we see those pics you like". Even someone like Conrad.

I like JR, guy was the voice of my childhood for wrestling, but there comes a time for everyone. I can't deny I always felt like he was out of place anyways in a company that's supposed to feel "new and youthful" - moreso than Tony Schiavone who does come across a lot younger and more exuberant than JR. I also used to like Taz, but idk how I feel about unproduced Taz as I haven't watched nearly enough Dark lately.

The problem I'd have with bringing in Ross for just the main events is he fucks up too much. If it's a pre-tape, you can mask that. But the issue we're having with him live is his constant slipping of "WWE". In my perfect world, he moves to pre tape interviews and they find another place they can utilize him. Voice over work for packages, a radio show/changing Unrestricted to more of a "post game" radio show. I'm not really sure, but I think we're mostly in agreeance this wasn't the JR we were expecting or hoping for.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Krone Meltzer said:

I like JR, guy was the voice of my childhood for wrestling, but there comes a time for everyone. I can't deny I always felt like he was out of place anyways in a company that's supposed to feel "new and youthful" - moreso than Tony Schiavone who does come across a lot younger and more exuberant than JR. I also used to like Taz, but idk how I feel about unproduced Taz as I haven't watched nearly enough Dark lately.

Think he was a great catch to open the company given public perception of him as one of the last true-blue WWF AE faces, but yeah ultimately he is really, really old. Heenan was basically done entirely by his mid-50s; Monsoon was taken off lead duties around his mid 50s too. Ross is 70 in 6 months. They definitely need to transition away from him ASAP purely on that basis. Maybe Henry or Wight works .. whoever it is, hopefully they give a non-carny focus.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Somebody up the page mentioned Foley's interactions with Divas and how they came off creepy/pathetic at times. I think it's worth noting that when someone close to him said something to him about it, he stopped doing it. I don't think Mick Foley ever had the mindset of "I want to/wish I could do inappropriate things to these women," but it came off sad. As a married guy I always try to keep in mind what I say regarding the opposite gender. I don't think Jim Ross thinks what he does in terms of opposite gender interactions or even things he says on air are inappropriate. I don't think they were thought of as inappropriate when he was coming up. I just don't think anyone's said anything to him.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, just drew said:

Somebody up the page mentioned Foley's interactions with Divas and how they came off creepy/pathetic at times. I think it's worth noting that when someone close to him said something to him about it, he stopped doing it. I don't think Mick Foley ever had the mindset of "I want to/wish I could do inappropriate things to these women," but it came off sad. As a married guy I always try to keep in mind what I say regarding the opposite gender. I don't think Jim Ross thinks what he does in terms of opposite gender interactions or even things he says on air are inappropriate. I don't think they were thought of as inappropriate when he was coming up. I just don't think anyone's said anything to him.

Oh, male gaze-y comments/inappropriate comments about stereotypical gender roles absolutely used to not be thought of as inappropriate, and in my experience, a lot of folks of his generation are incredibly dismissive of it whenever it gets brought up to them.

Unless, of course, it gets brought up to them by someone of their same peer group.

Anecdotal, but I work with a lot of old white men who ABSOLUTELY did not understand my transition and made a lot of horrid jokes at my expense when I came out, and it literally took one of them finally standing up for me for the jokes to stop. Not my manager saying "hey, you need to stop". Not my HR department saying "this is inappropriate". Nope. One of them had to be the one to tell them.

I'm not sayin' that Jim Ross needs a Jim Ross to tell him to knock it off, but it wouldn't hurt.

Edited by Stefanie the Human
  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Putting Alex Abrahantes together with Andrade was a smart move, as was following up on the thing with Matt Sydal, but the problem still remains - Sydal should be seen as nowhere near on the level of someone competing for a major championship. Andrade should get 4-5 minutes of his greatest hits in, then pin him, no prob. Instead, the match will go 10 minutes because:

A. They think that the longer a match goes, the more stars Meltzer sprinkles out of his trick bag.

B. They have to get in at least one picture-in-picture break per match, even if it makes every match last twice as long as it should.

They won't be able to paint Sydal as a jobber because why? He's a jobber. Not everyone can go 10-15 with everyone else, except in AEW. Sydal already went 15 with Omega, so Andrade-Sydal is bound to be more of an even match than it should be.

As for Ross, he made a mistake. He's toned down on criticizing the product while calling the matches. I dunno that I'd sign him to a new deal, but I'd at least let him serve out his term.

Edited by jstout
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get the comparisons between Sammy and Eddie at least young pre-juice Eddie who was working Japan and AAA.

The only time I've like a three man booth was Nitro where everyone had a defined role Tony was  lead, Bobby or Larry as color and Mike Teny doing his "professor of pro wrestling" thing

I've noticed that the booth gets better in AEW when someone steps out, either Tony to do an in ring or when its just Ex and Tony on the buy in.

Maybe move JR over to Rampage with Kingston/Jericho/Callis/Tazz on a rotating basis. If that show is taped you can fix things in post.

 

Also Evil Uno has a cartoon voice but I can't put my finger on who he sounds like

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Well, to be fair, Matt Sydal is not really a jobber but more a midcarder who beats people like Jack Evans, Dante Martin, Joey Janela und unsigned talent and loses to people like Kenny Omega, Christian Cage and Cody Rhodes (and Brian Cage, Eddie Kingston and Shawn Spears to be complete). Labelling him as just a jobber is a tad bit hard and inflationary.

And as boring a character I think he is, Matt Sydal going ten plus minutes with a at least semi-talented wrestler usually is some good quality tv wrestling. 

Edited by MrKothoga
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, just drew said:

Somebody up the page mentioned Foley's interactions with Divas and how they came off creepy/pathetic at times. I think it's worth noting that when someone close to him said something to him about it, he stopped doing it. I don't think Mick Foley ever had the mindset of "I want to/wish I could do inappropriate things to these women," but it came off sad. As a married guy I always try to keep in mind what I say regarding the opposite gender. I don't think Jim Ross thinks what he does in terms of opposite gender interactions or even things he says on air are inappropriate. I don't think they were thought of as inappropriate when he was coming up. I just don't think anyone's said anything to him.

I've read several accounts from fans and writters about how Foley was a creeper towards other fans, family members, etc, not just to other wrestling personalities but regular everyday people as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, The Green Meanie said:

I've read several accounts from fans and writters about how Foley was a creeper towards other fans, family members, etc, not just to other wrestling personalities but regular everyday people as well.

Really? I'm not saying you're wrong. That would just go against everything I've ever heard about the guy or experienced the handful of times I've worked on a project he had a hand in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...