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WEDNESDAY Night Dynamite - 6/30/2021


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Yeah - the best bet is to not do anything rash, let his contract expire and don't resign him. Allow him to do a goodbye on air and that's that. WWE obviously takes him back under a Legend's deal and I dunno - has him do pre-show panels with King or some shit or has him come out during Legends Night and everyone is happy. 

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Just now, The Natural said:

Here if you need to talk/vent, @NikoBaltimore. Best wishes.

Thanks, but it's all good.  Things break down, we hear from pissed off people, rinse wash repeat.  The wonders of IT phone support.

And I'll stop on the JR dunking as I'll leave it to others.  But @NoFistsJustFlips I'll leave it with this.

Looking back at his past work especially checking '97 WWF at the moment I really miss him caring about wrestling and being excited.  Which yes even when he had Bells Palsy during the Attitude Era you could still feel when he would commentate.  But yeah after so long of Vince tearing him down I can see why he'd lose the passion to commentate that he once had.  I was hoping that with being in a different company he would find that passion again.  But while there's some like FTR that catch his fancy I just think for regular commentary he's a detriment to the team.  It sucks because part of me still wants to like him but if this didn't bring his excitement back then maybe nothing ever will.  So now that I'm of a calmer mindset it's not "Fuck Jim Ross" like I bluntly put it but more "For the love of everything please retire."

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28 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

It's not like being head of commentary production is something he would want to do and work the headsets in the back.

JR yelling in Excalibur's ear to tell him to be sure to mention a) Preston Vance could definitely add 30 more pounds of upper body mass, b)  Abadon's 3rd cousin played nose tackle for the Pawtucket Fightin' Beagles, or c) Darrius Martin reminds him a lot of JYD, would all be tremendous.

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I knowwww I said I didn't wanna shit on JR more but "(Black guy) reminds me of (completely dissimilar black guy)" is pretty awful on every single level and really has to stop. You know damn well why Will Hobbs reminds you of Butch Reed and it ain't the powerslam, Jim.

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I'd love to just have a two man booth.  Forget four man booths, I find even a three man booth to be too busy and frenetic.  It's sad that we've had multiman broadcast teams for so long than a two-person team would be different and revolutionary.

Edited by Technico Support
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2 minutes ago, Zimbra said:

According to Reed's family he called Hobbs "The new Hacksaw" so I don't think you can put this one on JR at least.

 

6 minutes ago, Casey said:

According to Tony Khan, at least Butch Reed knew who Hobbs was (and really liked him).

Thanks guys, honestly had no idea about that

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1 minute ago, Technico Support said:

I'd love to just have a two man booth.  Forget four man booths, I find even a three man booth to be too busy and frenetic.  It's sad that we've had multiman broadcast teams for so long than a two-person team would be different and revolutionary.

That's why I love the commentary teams for Dark and Elevation so much.  Even if Tony doesn't know most modern moves yet tries to it's fun hearing both teams shoot the shit.  Maybe it's a bit much on the comedy during matches but I still have a pretty good time throughout.

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1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Ehh the twitterverse coming for him after botches isn't bad press. Him doing the rounds and ranting about how he got phased out for being old, ageism if you will, would be bad press in places that matter. Places the network execs / sponsors would see.

But you are correct. AEW is established now and JR isn't bringing in any lapsed fan at this point. But I do think that's a false argument. Because his value is more to the sponsors and networks that associate him with wrestling when they were pulling in 8 million viewers a week. The business side of the business is full of people that don't give a shit about the wrestling. "Oh you have the guy from when wrestling was hot as your lead announcer? Okay that means something to me." That's how TNT became involved. TK listed a bunch of people he thought he could land. JR was one of the big fish that got TNT interested.

Wrestling is literally the least important part of the wrestling business when it comes to business.

I don't know what kind of ads you're getting on TNT but on TSN we're seeing a shit load of infomercials. I do not think that a cantankerous third wheel commentator is going to influence their financials. Once he's gone, he will throw Excalibur under the bus, say the AEW style is dogshit (it is not without its flaws of course), and then go back to being lewd on social media. 

AEW has a year and a half of TV ratings and PPV numbers to demonstrate their viability to people. They do not need JR. Let his deal expire and wish him the best moving forward. 

Edit: While I know two man booths are generally stronger than three, I really do enjoy Callis alongside Excalibur and Schiavone. Don can pick his spots to go over the top with the heel commentator routine, but otherwise put over both faces and heels. I've really enjoyed his time on commentary in AEW and thought he did well in TNA too. 

EDIT EDIT: And hell yeah to Vickie with the Wingmen. Perfect spot for her. Get her the fuck away from anybody you want to make money with. I didn't even bother watching the tag last night. They have so much talent relegated to Dark and Elevation, keep managers out the ring. Poor Reba. ?

Edited by Jiji
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55 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I knowwww I said I didn't wanna shit on JR more but "(Black guy) reminds me of (completely dissimilar black guy)" is pretty awful on every single level and really has to stop. You know damn well why Will Hobbs reminds you of Butch Reed and it ain't the powerslam, Jim.

It's been well reported that Butch Reed was a big fan of Hobbs before his passing. 

I swear the amount of vitriol against JR is both jarring and comical. The flubs is one thing- and his grumpy sour attitude is another that comes out more on his podcast- and his habit of emphasizing every ex college football players background is now a borderline drinking game- but he is a walking encyclopedia of wrestling history because he lived it and breathed it for longer than most of us (and I'm 41) have been alive. If Hobbs reminds him of Butch Reed then he has the right to say that and not be subtlety called out as a racist. He can highlight the physical attributes of male wrestlers all day- but the second he mentions one aspect of a female combatants definition he's a sexist perverted old man. Hell, even if he makes comments like "still has the frame to grow" he will get labeled as a steroid pusher.

Edited by Wyld Samurai
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4 hours ago, Gordberg said:

Well, shit. That must really suck sometimes. I can't imagine what that must be like but it doesn't sound like fun. 

I'm overly ruminative by nature (prone to navel-gazing, as it were) but I think I have control over it, like I seem to be able to turn it off when I've got something to do. 

Luckily it doesn't seem to keep you from enjoying things that don't set it off. Like, say, Jungle Boy, Hangman Page, and Ricky Starks. Here's to you enjoying the things that you can, to the fullest.

It's all good. I think the biggest problem is that I don't realize I'm doing it until it's WAYYYYYYYY too late. And that I can't seem to spot any patterns in what sets it off. Right now it's the Young Bucks and Atlanta Braves manager Brian Snitker, although I feel justified in my unrelenting contempt of that idiot.

 

I was telling someone who reached out in a DM that I got back into martial arts as an adult because it really was a wonderful way to focus and control that nervous energy into something positive, like self defense knowledge and fitness. Then we moved a couple months ago and I haven't been able to find a new dojo yet. You can almost chart the move to the week this mess started. I'm good. 99.75% of the time I live a normal, fulfilling life with the help of a couple meds. Sometimes one just slips through. I appreciate the kind words.

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10 minutes ago, Jiji said:

I don't know what kind of ads you're getting on TNT but on TSN we're seeing a shit load of infomercials. I do not think that a cantankerous third wheel commentator is going to influence their financials. Once he's gone, he will throw Excalibur under the bus, say the AEW style is dogshit (it is not without its flaws of course), and then go back to being lewd on social media. 

AEW has a year and a half of TV ratings and PPV numbers to demonstrate their viability to people. They do not need JR. Let his deal expire and wish him the best moving forward. 

Edit: While I know two man booths are generally stronger than three, I really do enjoy Callis alongside Excalibur and Schiavone. Don can pick his spots to go over the top with the heel commentator routine, but otherwise put over both faces and heels. I've really enjoyed his time on commentary in AEW and thought he did well in TNA too. 

EDIT EDIT: And hell yeah to Vickie with the Wingmen. Perfect spot for her. Get her the fuck away from anybody you want to make money with. I didn't even bother watching the tag last night. They have so much talent relegated to Dark and Elevation, keep managers out the ring. Poor Reba. ?

That's actually really inspired casting, and you could get there by bringing Thea Trinidad in to manage Andrade. He needs a mouthpiece and it ain't Vickie. Nyla doesn't need anyone. Vickie wanders aimless backstage for a couple weeks until she runs into not Dolph and his buddies. You play on Vickie having managed Dolph in the past...

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4 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

It's been well reported that Butch Reed was a big fan of Hobbs before his passing. 

I swear the amount of vitriol against JR is both jarring and comical. The flubs is one thing- and his grumpy sour attitude is another that comes out more on his podcast- and his habit of emphasizing every ex college football players background is now a borderline drinking game- but he is a walking encyclopedia of wrestling history because he lived it and breathed it for longer than most of us (and I'm 41) have been alive. If Hobbs reminds him of Butch Reed then he has the right to say that and not be subtlety called out as a racist. He can highlight the physical attributes of male wrestlers all day- but the second he mentions one aspect of a female combatants definition he's a sexist perverted old man. Hell, even if he makes comments like "still has the frame to grow" he will get labeled as a steroid pusher.

Yeah, the Hobbs/Butch thing isn't a big deal at all and Excalibur even mentioned on commentary at least once but I think twice that Reed put him over as the new Hacksaw. But it's just his general aura and disinterest that takes away from matches way more than any WWE flub or dumbassery. The entire job of a commentator is to put over the wrestlers and build excitement. With few exceptions, Ross does not seem interested in doing any of that or when he tries it comes off as forced. You know he has his favourites, and there's nothing wrong with that, he always did, but unless you're on his shortlist you're fucked. 

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4 minutes ago, Jiji said:

I do not think that a cantankerous third wheel commentator is going to influence their financials.

I disagree, at least to the extent that AEW wouldn't have landed the TNT deal without Jim Ross. Speaking in past tense here. He was, above even Jericho, the number one name TK put out there that got the network excited. JR is a catalyst for Dynamite even being a thing. Without him on board TNT doesn't bite. Without TNT, AEW doesn't get locked in as a real and credible promotion. So I understand your point but you're not understanding the business side of the coin. People that don't watch wrestling make the big decisions. TNT wanted JR. TNT got JR. No JR, no TNT. That's not me throwing out a theory. That's all stuff that has been reported and verified.

Going forward tho, yes I agree. As long as it doesn't upset the network. They need to find a tasteful and respectful way to phase him out.

 

45 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I'd love to just have a two man booth.  Forget four man booths, I find even a three man booth to be too busy and frenetic.  It's sad that we've had multiman broadcast teams for so long than a two-person team would be different and revolutionary.

I am so on board with a two man booth. There's a dynamic and a rhythm that comes with a two man team I just enjoy. Gorilla and Bobby doing their back and forth. Jesse pestering Vince. Even Nitro was best when it was Tony & Bobby in one hour and Bischoff & Zybysko in the other hour or whatever. What's old is new again. I'd have Dynamite be Excalibur & Tony as the regular team. But still work in Taz for the strong style matches (I think he added in a ton for the MMA fight). I'd add in Callis for The Elite Matches. I'd add JR in on Hoss fights.

I'd have Rampage be JR & Taz with the same join in Dynamic, at least until JR's contract was up. Schiavonne on old school shit. Excalibur on new school shit. I'd also sign Veda Scott and get her to join in as the women's wrestling expert on both shows. So primarily a two man booth with a third one working in for added emphasis sometimes would be my preference.

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I forgot to mention I really appreciate Matt Hardy's commitment to the gimmick, with his dyed, desert-dry, frizzy jet black hair.  If you're going to work a gimmick as a rich, greedy has-been, then you might as well rock the Gene Simmons hair :D

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Jim Ross is still pretty good with those sit-down interviews with the video packages and stuff, too. Idk if it's worth keeping him around just for that, but he still has his fastball where that is concerned. 

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I feel like the only person that actually likes Vickie being with Nyla.  Much like with past managers while it hasn't been explicitly mentioned Vickie's rationale is that she wanted to manage the biggest and baddest woman who will mow through the division.  Which to this point Nyla has done especially with recent shorter squashes.  But I can already sense those that will say I might be reading too much into it.

So with Nyla being quite capable of talking on her own where else to put Vickie?  With the Wingmen would be fun but I feel she could work with somebody who's not one for promo skills.  At first I was thinking Leyla Hirsch if she turned heel but I would still prefer her in Team Taz if they're still around by then.  And if not her then I would like to think there's somebody out there that she can work with.  And if not then just use her 'til her contract runs out and bid adieu from there.

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17 minutes ago, Jiji said:

Edit: While I know two man booths are generally stronger than three, I really do enjoy Callis alongside Excalibur and Schiavone. Don can pick his spots to go over the top with the heel commentator routine, but otherwise put over both faces and heels. I've really enjoyed his time on commentary in AEW and thought he did well in TNA too.


Callis had a bit a couple months ago during Chris Daniels' bloody farewell when he insisted the Bucks' stooges running in to hit Daniels in the eyes with the cold spray "they're trying to stop the bleeding!" that reminded me of why heel color analysts were what once hooked me on wrestling.

Three man booths are not inherently stronger or weaker than Two man booths.  It's all about personnel and positioning.  Schiavone/Excalibur with Taz or Callis are stronger three man booths, Schiavone/Excalibur with JR is a weaker three man booth.  Some of that's picking on JR but a lot of it is also JR and Tony play the same position [neutral to pro-face play by play] and so they get in each other's way and sound like they're repeating each other, and Excalibur as the archivist/statistician/Mike Tenay type doesn't really tug in the other direction from either/both of them because he's more neutral.

[and not to pick too much on JR, but at this stage Schiavone is better at it and is more naturally positive about modern wrestling in the way the PBP guy needs to be]

Taz and Callis have slants as more traditional Heel Color Analysts that provide that contrarian tension without over indulging in it (which only works if you're actually as funny as Heenan was, which virtually nobody is).  it's sorta similar to why sports talk co-hosts default to disagreeing/debating each other on every thing (no matter how silly the contrary position on something may end up being).

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28 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

It's been well reported that Butch Reed was a big fan of Hobbs before his passing. 

I swear the amount of vitriol against JR is both jarring and comical. The flubs is one thing- and his grumpy sour attitude is another that comes out more on his podcast- and his habit of emphasizing every ex college football players background is now a borderline drinking game- but he is a walking encyclopedia of wrestling history because he lived it and breathed it for longer than most of us (and I'm 41) have been alive. If Hobbs reminds him of Butch Reed then he has the right to say that and not be subtlety called out as a racist. He can highlight the physical attributes of male wrestlers all day- but the second he mentions one aspect of a female combatants definition he's a sexist perverted old man. Hell, even if he makes comments like "still has the frame to grow" he will get labeled as a steroid pusher.

He hasn't flubbed just that one thing, though.  He's blatantly messed up or missed a number of things.  There have been multiple times where you can even hear that his commentating partners are at a loss as to how to reply to him.  On top of that, as many have mentioned, he is constantly critical of the product.  Now, I'm not someone that doesn't think anyone should be critical of AEW.  I enjoy it, but still see a TON of room for improvement.  But I'm not on the payroll with the specific job of putting the product over.

Also, the Reed/Hobbs comparison isn't the only one has a racist tinge to it.  He compares Sammy to Gino Hernandez when, other than a Hispanic last name, they don't really share any similarities.  He also brings up Dick Murdoch and Killer Karl Kox every time someone does a brainbuster.  Now, I like watching Murdoch wrestle as much as anyone, but name-dropping a guy who was supposedly a KKK member and one who's damn initials were KKK isn't the best look for a national company in 2021.

JR also has a history of being a bit "pervy" on Twitter.  I think that's why his comments about females' bodies come off so creepy.  It's one of those things that he could just not say.

Really, when it comes down to it, Ross is just of another time.  He just doesn't fit with what AEW is trying to present.  I respect his career and have enjoyed him a lot during most of it.  His time has just passed.  The world we live in isn't a world JR seems equipped to navigate on live tv.  Like others have pointed out, it's not something exclusive to wrestling.  It happens to legendary commentators in many sports.  

Edit: I forgot to add that the "WWE Dynamite" flub is a really bad one.  If he'd said it somewhere in the middle of the show during a match of throwing to break or something, it'd be one thing.  The problem was that it came after a very emotional video package showcasing the promotion's time through the pandemic (where, IMO, they came into their own).  It was just the worst possible time for it.  I know that people make mistakes.  I worked in tv news for 15+ years.  On-air talent is held to a different standard.  When you are the voice of the company, you can't do things like calling the company by it's biggest competitor's name.  If you're the spokesperson for Pepsi, and you refer to your company as "Coke" during a tv interview, you're in big trouble.  Let's also not forget that this is not his first time doing that.  

Edited by Log
Forgot to mention something.
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10 minutes ago, just drew said:

Jim Ross is still pretty good with those sit-down interviews with the video packages and stuff, too. Idk if it's worth keeping him around just for that, but he still has his fastball where that is concerned. 

and if they limit it they can really enhance the big match feel.  Oh, you know this matters because the guys are doing sit downs with JR the king of sit downs.

Put him where he's on his best foot instead of [setting him up to mess up?] on the commentary booth.  Or maybe do the thing WWE did for a while where JR only came out for special main events to provide that big match feel.

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I think his eye for talent is still pretty spot on, too, regardless of how he thinks they should look once they're signed. He's useful to AEW. TK just has to decide if it's worth the exorbitant salary to have him around to do a half dozen part time, miscellaneous jobs.

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21 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

and if they limit it they can really enhance the big match feel.  Oh, you know this matters because the guys are doing sit downs with JR the king of sit downs.

Put him where he's on his best foot instead of [setting him up to mess up?] on the commentary booth.  Or maybe do the thing WWE did for a while where JR only came out for special main events to provide that big match feel.

 

12 minutes ago, just drew said:

I think his eye for talent is still pretty spot on, too, regardless of how he thinks they should look once they're signed. He's useful to AEW. TK just has to decide if it's worth the exorbitant salary to have him around to do a half dozen part time, miscellaneous jobs.


I agree with your takes. But JR himself shit talks when WWE took him out of the full time rotation and used him only for sit downs and big moment Mania matches. He's said on his podcast he hates that and he wants to be a full time play by play guy. Just pointing that out to demonstrate why, even tho we all agree that would be best, it isn't going to happen in AEW.

He's also said he has no desire to go back to working the administrative side. Basically old cranky man wants to do one thing and one thing only, so don't expect either of those options to be on the table. But I agree he could help in the talent relations side big time if he were willing.

Edited by NoFistsJustFlips
forgot to address the talent relations part
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