WEDNESDAY Night Dynamite - 6/30/2021

[Wyld Samurai]

14 minutes ago, Infinit said:

The crazy thing about JR's flub is that he had just pushed the ticket website before we misspoke. It really sucks that a pretty good show had to end on a sour note.

Sour? I thought the general consensus was hilarity.

[Technico Support]

41 minutes ago, Log said:

JR also has a history of being a bit "pervy" on Twitter.  I think that's why his comments about females' bodies come off so creepy.  It's one of those things that he could just not say.

He also, on commentary on a live mic, rooted for a wardrobe malfunction during a women's match and drooled over what  a "lucky man" Kip Sabian is while Penelope Ford was on camera.

But we're the assholes for calling him out for his retrograde antics.

As mentioned, he's just of a different time.  Also, he's completely unmotivated to put forth more than the bare minimum.  And he actively dislikes 90% of what he's commentating on. All these things add up.

[Craig H]

I will disagree that he dislikes almost all of what he sees. I think he does like the AEW product a lot and I think he enjoys the simpler, more straightforward storytelling instead of garbage that is rewritten multiple times the day of. That alone has to make his job easier because he can know way ahead of time for what to expect instead of going to work and finding out what the layout is, or worse, finding out in the middle of the show that the layout changed.

His comments on bodies, putting on muscle, etc. seem more of a product of just him being an evaluator of the looks of wrestlers and wanting them to stand out more instead of being a target for criticism. Most of the time I ignore that stuff anyway, but I recognize others have a more keen ear for it. I don't take his comments about Chuck Taylor as him disliking Chuck. Same goes for anyone else.

If he calls a move wrong or calls someone by the wrong name every now and then, then whatever. That's not a big deal and it happens all of the time with every sport. I listen to the radio call of Cubs games and think Pat Hughes is one of the best in the business and even he isn't perfect and calling baseball is about the slowest thing to call.

A lot of people on here love to think there's animosity between him and Excalibur and I think that's way overblown too. All three guys rib each other and give each other shit. I think if outside people listened to my friends and I talk to each other those people would probably think he doesn't like him or this one annoys the other or whatever and it's just our vibe. If JR truly disliked Excalibur then he's going to say so.

The other shit though, like comments on wardrobe malfunctions, super old timey comparisons to wrestlers (like the brainbuster stuff when, at least in my opinion, Koko B. Ware is far more recognizable and memorable and you could shout him out instead), and calling your company WWE instead of AEW on multiple occasions are all far more problematic. I would prefer Mauro over JR, but only with the guarantee that he wouldn't be full NXT Mauro where he was shouting over and stepping all over his co-announcers. I don't think he could restrain himself enough to do that and honestly, I don't know how well he would mesh with Excalibur and Tony. JR is still fine for the booth, but damn, just tighten a few things up a bit.

[Eoae]

39 minutes ago, Infinit said:

The crazy thing about JR's flub is that he had just pushed the ticket website before we misspoke. It really sucks that a pretty good show had to end on a sour note.

Doesn't he flub things on-air somewhat regularly?

The flub doesn't bother me as a viewer, but it's the sort of Freudian slip I probably wouldn't tolerate if JR was my employee.  

The bigger issue is that JR seems to be a talking point fairly frequently, for one reason or another.  My rule of thumb for play-by-play guys, color commentators, on-field interviewers, etc. is that when you start becoming the story instead of what's going on on the field (or in the ring, on-screen, etc.), you're a liability to your employer and it's time to move on.

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Eoae

[The Green Meanie]

I love JR, but this is fairly relevant:

https://i.imgur.com/ug5OxOE.jpg

[eikerir]

The Dark Order just being the most realistic, wholesome and supportive group of friends to Hangman was my favourite minute of the show. They’re honestly the ultimate good guys in wrestling right now.

Edited July 1, 2021 by eikerir

[Wyld Samurai]

8 minutes ago, eikerir said:

The Dark Order just being the most realistic, wholesome and supportive group of friends to Hangman was my favourite minute of the show. They’re honestly the ultimate good guys in wrestling right now.

Whole heartedly agree. I love The Dark Order. 

I think Evil Uno needs a new mask now! With his most impressive weight loss it's looking a little loose on him. Way to go, big man!

[Just Dave]

"Mean" Gene Okerlund said "we'll be back with more WWF Monday Night Raw" several times during Nitro's first year or so on the air, so this isn't unprecedented. It just sucks that JR did it after an earnest and heartfelt video package...

[AxB]

Remember when WWE bought Heenan and Okerlund back for the Mania Gimmick battle royal, and Heenan went straight in to autopilot "Great to be back, Tony"?

JR had the biggest smirk about that. 

[A.M.B.]

For some reason I was getting Zap Rowsdower vibes from Kenny Omega last night, he just needs to start rocking the Canadian tuxedo now.

 

Show was alright, the opener was fun, but the interference is just so overdone it's getting increasingly infuriating, especially at the end of a good match. Despite some of their tendencies, Young Bucks are must watch TV for me, though for some reason I find Nick Jackson generally hilarious while Matt's a little more cringe worthy to me. I love the look of the Varsity Blondes. AEW needs more hot boys and the pairing with Hart is perfect. Pilman's not horrible on promos, I remember liking the lead up the Young Bucks match, but we gotta stop with them ending on some variation of "you're a BITCH~!". Comes off as sophomoric, lazy, and is all too common in AEW. Add that one to the drinking game. Also loved Andrade's promo and character, why do we need to give him a mouth piece again? Main event was good, interference is awful once again. Jericho getting thrown off the stage looked dumb. I'm at a point now where I actually can't think of the last time I loved something he did, the first Stadium Stampede comes to mind but has there really been nothing since then?

And yes, JR should go. Something like this was waiting to happen with the Freudian slips he's been making for years now, like calling Omega the WWE champion. There was this whole narrative that he adds the story, Excal calls the moves, and Tony brings the excitement, except Excal tells the story better than JR and renders him useless. You don't need two guys for callbacks to the bygone era and bring back old fans. Tony is great for that, still has youthful enthusiasm and lucidity, and has chemistry with Excal, whereas JR usually gets in their way. Hearing him try and sell some of the big moments just reminds me that he had a lot more vitality in his calls 20 years ago. He's much better suited to heading the sit down interviews.

[John from Cincinnati]

883,000, 0.35 demo. Eat shit, Rampage time slot. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by John from Cincinnati
.35, not .55

[Bryan]

The JR is a racist stuff is racist for making old school comparisons to wrestlers of the same ethnicity is ridiculous.

Especially, since of the three Dynamite announcers the one that said the “n word” on camera in a wrestling promotion is not JR (or Tony).

So if you’re not also pounding the table for Excalibur to be fired for his past racist actions, you can miss me with the JR is racist for comparing Hobbs to Butch Reed stuff.

JR flubbing the line was bad and unfortunate but the way a portion of the AEW fan base actively looks for any mistake he makes to attack him for is obnoxious and toxic.

Believe it or not, JR is not the only announcer in AEW (or in commentating) to make mistakes. One of the amusing parts I’ve noticed when I’ve watched Dark is Taz or Excalibur flubbing something and then them making fun of each other.

[Infinit]

4 hours ago, Jiji said:

I don't know what kind of ads you're getting on TNT but on TSN we're seeing a shit load of infomercials.

Maybe it's because we are in different parts of the country, but my TSN feed of the show had zero infomercials.

[punkenhead]

Not saying JR is racist, and the Hobbs/Butch Reed comparison is fine and valid; but JR referred to Hobbs on a Dynamite past as "quite articulate". As someone who has lived in the South my entire life, I recognize that as a low key racist comment predicated on the fallacious notion that blacks are generally inferior to whites, and it is surprising when a black person is capable of speaking adroitly. So, JR is either low key racist or a product of his times. The Guevara/Hernandez comparison is a head scratcher, certainly. Either way, to me, renewing his contract is not good business; however, Tony Khan is a freaking saint and an old school fan, so he will keep JR around until the wheels come completely off. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Yeah, I definitely want to again thank those who pointed out the Hobbs/Reed connection. I didn't have any idea about it or spaced on it for whatever reason (it's pretty cool to find out about, actually) and if I'd known, I wouldn't have used it as an example- I'd have just stuck with the Sammy/Gino comparison from my post last night or something. I'm not suggesting JR is a full blown racist, I probably lean closer to @punkenhead's "product of his time" stance

[John from Cincinnati]

edit: wrong thread

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by John from Cincinnati

[Technico Support]

2 hours ago, Bryan said:

The JR is a racist stuff is racist for making old school comparisons to wrestlers of the same ethnicity is ridiculous.

Especially, since of the three Dynamite announcers the one that said the “n word” on camera in a wrestling promotion is not JR (or Tony).

That’s not a very good take.  Excalibur said it as part of a stupid promo 15+ years ago in front of 50 people, was encouraged to say it by the black wrestler he was in a program with, and immediately regretted it.  JR just last night compared two very different wrestlers whose only common trait is their Hispanic descent and, as mentioned, put over Hobbs with a “he speaks so well!” 20+ years after Chris Rock called attention to that shit in his act.   I’m not saying the dude wears hoods on weekends like his old pal Dick  Murdoch, but I am saying he’s got that low key racism of so many guys of his age and geographic demo.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Technico Support

[sabremike]

1 hour ago, Bryan said:

The JR is a racist stuff is racist for making old school comparisons to wrestlers of the same ethnicity is ridiculous.

Especially, since of the three Dynamite announcers the one that said the “n word” on camera in a wrestling promotion is not JR (or Tony).

So if you’re not also pounding the table for Excalibur to be fired for his past racist actions, you can miss me with the JR is racist for comparing Hobbs to Butch Reed stuff.

JR flubbing the line was bad and unfortunate but the way a portion of the AEW fan base actively looks for any mistake he makes to attack him for is obnoxious and toxic.

Believe it or not, JR is not the only announcer in AEW (or in commentating) to make mistakes. One of the amusing parts I’ve noticed when I’ve watched Dark is Taz or Excalibur flubbing something and then them making fun of each other.

Excalibur used that term because it was an angle that a black wrestler (Human Tornado) came up with and that was part of it. 

[Bryan]

54 minutes ago, punkenhead said:

Not saying JR is racist, and the Hobbs/Butch Reed comparison is fine and valid; but JR referred to Hobbs on a Dynamite past as "quite articulate". As someone who has lived in the South my entire life, I recognize that as a low key racist comment predicated on the fallacious notion that blacks are generally inferior to whites, and it is surprising when a black person is capable of speaking adroitly. So, JR is either low key racist or a product of his times. The Guevara/Hernandez comparison is a head scratcher, certainly. Either way, to me, renewing his contract is not good business; however, Tony Khan is a freaking saint and an old school fan, so he will keep JR around until the wheels come completely off. 

The current President referred to Barack Obama in the same way (though he also added clean, IIRC) so I’m not sure how offensive that is really.

And while you could assign racist overtones to it, you could also say that Hobbs is a large hulk of a man that makes angry/scary facial expressions in the ring which creates stereotypes in people’s minds regardless of race, so by saying that JR was trying to convey that he’s not a meat head but a person with some depth.

 

[Jenalysis]

1 hour ago, punkenhead said:

Not saying JR is racist, and the Hobbs/Butch Reed comparison is fine and valid; but JR referred to Hobbs on a Dynamite past as "quite articulate". As someone who has lived in the South my entire life, I recognize that as a low key racist comment predicated on the fallacious notion that blacks are generally inferior to whites, and it is surprising when a black person is capable of speaking adroitly. So, JR is either low key racist or a product of his times. The Guevara/Hernandez comparison is a head scratcher, certainly. Either way, to me, renewing his contract is not good business; however, Tony Khan is a freaking saint and an old school fan, so he will keep JR around until the wheels come completely off. 

I'm pretty sure I saw the Gino Hernandez comparison from someone else before.

 

 

[Bryan]

6 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Excalibur used that term because it was an angle that a black wrestler (Human Tornado) came up with and that was part of it. 

 

8 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

That’s not a very good take.  Excalibur said it as part of a stupid promo 15+ years ago in front of 50 people, was encouraged to say it by the black wrestler he was in a program with, and immediately regretted it.  JR just last night compared two very different wrestlers whose only common trait is their Hispanic descent and, as mentioned, put over Hobbs with a “he speaks so well!” 20+ years after Chris Rock called attention to that shit in his act.   I’m not saying the dude wears hoods on weekends like his old pal Dick  Murdoch, but I am saying he’s got that low key racism of so many guys of his age and geographic demo.

He said it, a black wrestler telling him to do it doesn’t make it okay. A white person that grows up in a mostly black neighborhood that gets a pass there will still be canceled if they say it outside that community.

I’ve never seen Gino Hernandez wrestle or cut a promo, and if you have, I guarantee you’ve seen less of him or any other obscure references JR makes. So the connection that it sparked in his head could be personality or something else.

And again, JR making an outdated comparison to modern wrestlers of the same ethnicity is no where as bad as Excalibur using the n word.

BTW, if Excalibur actually was remorseful after he said it, then he knew it was wrong when he did it. But he still said it.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

58 minutes ago, Bryan said:

I’ve never seen Gino Hernandez wrestle or cut a promo, and if you have, I guarantee you’ve seen less of him or any other obscure references JR makes. So the connection that it sparked in his head could be personality or something else.

Dude what is this, come on. You can't actually believe that

Edited July 2, 2021 by Zakk_Sabbath

[Eivion]

2 hours ago, punkenhead said:

Not saying JR is racist, and the Hobbs/Butch Reed comparison is fine and valid; but JR referred to Hobbs on a Dynamite past as "quite articulate". As someone who has lived in the South my entire life, I recognize that as a low key racist comment predicated on the fallacious notion that blacks are generally inferior to whites, and it is surprising when a black person is capable of speaking adroitly. So, JR is either low key racist or a product of his times. 

So my dad even as a black man still says the articulate thing sometimes. He said that about Obama often. JR has been saying stuff like this for decades now. I think its definitely a Southern product of his time thing. Old guys have trouble leaving that stuff behind, especially if no one is actively forcing them to.

[Big Z]

50 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Dude what is this, come on. You can't actually believe that

Yes, Gino Hernandez was very well featured on the first part of the World Class set from the 80's project here and is very well known amongst older wrestling fans. Guevara is basically the opposite of him, great in the ring, but mediocre on the mic (whereas Gino was an excellent promo/character, but so-so as a worker). 

[A_K]

12 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said:

It's been well reported that Butch Reed was a big fan of Hobbs before his passing. 

I swear the amount of vitriol against JR is both jarring and comical. The flubs is one thing- and his grumpy sour attitude is another that comes out more on his podcast- and his habit of emphasizing every ex college football players background is now a borderline drinking game- but he is a walking encyclopedia of wrestling history because he lived it and breathed it for longer than most of us (and I'm 41) have been alive. If Hobbs reminds him of Butch Reed then he has the right to say that and not be subtlety called out as a racist. He can highlight the physical attributes of male wrestlers all day- but the second he mentions one aspect of a female combatants definition he's a sexist perverted old man. Hell, even if he makes comments like "still has the frame to grow" he will get labeled as a steroid pusher.

Yup. The internet at its insidious worst.