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Saturday Night Dynamite - 6/26/2021


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I didn't expect them to pull the trigger on Jungle Boy yet. but, man, I'm tired of the Elite.  I like the Bucks more than most people and think Omega was probably the best in the world when he was with NJ, but I'm tired of both.  Moreso the Bucks.  Nothing against any act, but there's only so much you can do with a gimmick before the new coat of paint feels like a retread.  I've been watching both guys since.... the mid-2000's and have seen both turn heel and face more times than I can count,  The Bucks heel schtick is actually pretty good, but I have trouble taking it seriously now since I've seen so many different variations of it already.  And it's inevitable that they're going to turn babyface not too far down the road.

Now that crowds are back, I'm really hoping they push some some fresh homegrown acts.  Jungle Boy, Hangman, Darby, more Mox, even MJF.  I'm not a huge fan of Miro, but he's been killing it the last month or two.  Push him.

Meltzer and Alvarez threw out the idea that Miro should hold the TNT title 4-6 months then be unseated by Jungle Boy.  This please.  I'll watch the show more regularly.

It's kind of hilarious that the Elite have been around so long that they're the sort of stale act we complained about before AEW was a thing.

  

Edited by Eoae
I need to proofread before i post.
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42 minutes ago, A_K said:

Omega is legit. I didn’t care for his dime store presentation after the Page separation (it was v lame), but he’s evolved into a fun character. He’s also physically legit. Bit of a throwback to the Benoit/Eddie/Angle style Main Eventers - not huge but with a legit physical presence, and able to move themselves and others around the ring. Would be good to see him in a programme with a physically bigger dude (not that AEW has many of them really .. Big Show would have been (maybe would still be) an interesting short programme).

The Bucks are greatly improved but they have an insurmountable issue of just looking so ... physically weak? They give up like 4 inches on even the Hardys who some would historically liken them to .. and the Hardys in their tag run would often enough look like total fodder against bigger guys as it was. So yeah, an all conquering tag tag pushes the envelope a little too much .. but this is definitely the funnest incarnation of their characters in AEW so far relatively speaking.

I haven't seen Big Show work a match in 10 plus years, but I'd love to see how Omega would work him.  

An argument surrounding the Bucks size feels wide of the mark considering the AEW roster size and their average opponents.  It's not like they're being booked as unstoppable bruisers.  Their crisp and speedy delivery seems like more than enough reason to believe in their offense.    

I'm flabbergasted by the quality of that Tully-Konnan exchange.  Last I saw Konnan he was cutting horrendous tone deaf promos on MLW a year or so ago, and generally think of him as a bad catchphrase guy.  That was a sharp promo.  Strangely woke, but effective.  FTR's intensity and beatdown even made the 'we all saw it coming a mile away' masked bit work.  So stoked for FTR to be working actual matches again.  LAX too.  

Also, QT Marshall's promo was well done.  The QT heel run seems to be unfairly shadowed by the Cody hate and misfires.  Did anybody else see QT ragdolling Dillon McQueen a month or so back on Dark?  Dillon McQueen is a really fun squashee.    

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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12 hours ago, just drew said:

What about outright stating it? He’s a bad promo. They’re pretentious, self indulgent and get no one over.


I understand your opinion of Kenny Omega. It's neither right nor wrong, because it's an opinion. Normally I try not to debate opinions because people don't just change the way they feel on things often. But this quote needs to be put into context a bit. Who is his promo supposed to be getting over? A promo is either spoken promotion for a specific match, or spoken promotion for a specific character. "Self indulgent"... IS his character. "Pretentious"... IS his character. So his promos ARE getting him over. You may not like his promos. You may not like his character. You also clearly don't like his work. But they have a clear purpose. Make people hate Kenny Omega.

Like who gets over from a Christian promo other than Christian? Who gets over from an Eddie Kingston promo other than Eddie Kingston? Ya know what I mean? Promos aren't meant to get other people over very often. They are meant to build you up or your specific angle or match up.

People don't want to hear this but Kenny's doing the millennial version of Ric Flair. People in the early 80s hated Flair. Everything gets retcon'd now with the benefit of hindsight. He was liked by a small vocal minority but the general fan that paid to come to the shows were just as annoyed with Flair in the moment as people seem to be with Kenny right now. Which is why having Flair on the card always drew so well. Everyone wanted to see him get his ass kicked. But more often than not you got a heat finish with his goons. Sound familiar?

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1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:

It's like saying 'the Beatles suck!  I just don't like them.  They're different.'

Lol, what a band to pick to make your point! They don't hit on any of my aesthetic preferences either. I don't think they suck, but one listen to their albums was all I needed to say "I get what they're doing, and it's not for me".

Now if someone brought up Wings, that's when I'd have some vitriol.

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I know it's not Wings, but it's really Wings... Ram is a great album. Though I listened too much to the Beatles in university that I can no longer do it. Tapped out.

Edited by Jiji
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15 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said:

If Miro was an 80s villain he'd be Bennett in Commando.

The problem with that is, that if that were the case , then poor little Alyssa Milano may have never been rescued in the end and I don't want to think about it.

Edited by Shartnado
Grammars
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I'm very worn out with treating The Beatles like a religion and not a band we can admit made mistakes at points, but having said that I think it's fucking amazing they just randomly invented an entire genre of electronic music and tape looping which basically was "Radiohead", did one dope song with it, and just walked away and never touched it again

 

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2 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:


I understand your opinion of Kenny Omega. It's neither right nor wrong, because it's an opinion. Normally I try not to debate opinions because people don't just change the way they feel on things often. But this quote needs to be put into context a bit. Who is his promo supposed to be getting over? A promo is either spoken promotion for a specific match, or spoken promotion for a specific character. "Self indulgent"... IS his character. "Pretentious"... IS his character. So his promos ARE getting him over. You may not like his promos. You may not like his character. You also clearly don't like his work. But they have a clear purpose. Make people hate Kenny Omega.

Like who gets over from a Christian promo other than Christian? Who gets over from an Eddie Kingston promo other than Eddie Kingston? Ya know what I mean? Promos aren't meant to get other people over very often. They are meant to build you up or your specific angle or match up.

People don't want to hear this but Kenny's doing the millennial version of Ric Flair. People in the early 80s hated Flair. Everything gets retcon'd now with the benefit of hindsight. He was liked by a small vocal minority but the general fan that paid to come to the shows were just as annoyed with Flair in the moment as people seem to be with Kenny right now. Which is why having Flair on the card always drew so well. Everyone wanted to see him get his ass kicked. But more often than not you got a heat finish with his goons. Sound familiar?

I appreciate the well thought out response. 

One, I haven't seen any interviews with him done "out of character" that make me waver at all from the opinion that he's a pretentious, self-indulgent performer. It's not character work. It's how he appears to view what professional wrestling is. And that's fine, but I think AEW is going to have trouble expanding their audience with a performer who is so clearly unconcerned with having a relatable, appealing match on a week to week basis as their champion. Second, the trouble I have with the Ric Flair comparison is that the Horsemen took pride in how great they made their opponents look, while it often appears the Elite believe their opponents exist solely to make them look better than they're capable of making themselves look. Arn & Ole Anderson, Tully Blanchard, and Barry Windham all made territory guys into bigger stars while still orbiting around Ric Flair and the NWA title. Matt and Nick Jackson are incapable of making anyone look like stars... including Matt and Nick Jackson.

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5 hours ago, Casey said:

Yeah that doesn’t really help your case here though. This just seems like another case of your extreme dislike of Omega - which is fine, even if I think you’re wrong and you take it to Cornette levels of hate for the guy - but let’s not pretend Jungle Boy is ready to be the top guy in the company, please. He’s good, but he’s not there 100% there yet.

I don't think your champion always has to be the top guy. AEW is due for an "out of nowhere" title change. They haven't had a single one in the company's history. I get that they want to be more judicious in their title changes, but a feel-good win for Jungle Boy before putting the belt back on Omega (making him the first 2 time AEW champ in the process) would've made him even more insufferable before the inevitable showdown with Page.

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These are guys that we’re booking themselves into oblivion at the start of the company according to a lot of people. They’re going to get their comeuppance.

And I just disagree entirely that Omega should have lost the title to Jungle Boy and then won it back a few weeks later or whatever. To me, the endgame is Hangman Page, and that’s the only person Omega should lose to eventually.

Now if you wanted a quickie change, I think Moxley dropping it during the “pandemic era” would have been perfectly fine.

Edited by Casey
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Did anyone find it stupid that they interrupted Andrade's big announcement by Matt Sydal walking out for his match? Andrade should have ground Sydal into a fine paste for daring to interrupt him. Between stuff like that and Vickie Guerrero, they've already put Andrade behind the 8-ball before he even debuts. And when is that supposed to be? My WWE Aversion Syndrome caused me to miss him there. I've heard the guy can go, and I wanna see him work. But he may be able to sneak in an announcement about it when he can't see Marko Stunt step over his hard-grabbed TV time to make a ring entrance.

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13 minutes ago, Casey said:

These are guys that we’re booking themselves into oblivion at the start of the company according to a lot of people. They’re going to get their comeuppance.

And I just disagree entirely that Omega should have lost the title to Jungle Boy and then won it back a few weeks later or whatever. To me, the endgame is Hangman Page, and that’s the only person Omega should lose to eventually.

Now if you wanted a quickie change, I think Moxley dropping it during the “pandemic era” would have been perfectly fine.

How many people remember that Luger won the title from Hogan before Sting did? Not many. Even in my own memory, if that hadn't come up recently, I wouldn't have remembered it and would have gone on thinking Sting was the first to beat Hogan for the title. And Luger was a super established guy. 

Point is, few remember those short title reigns. What good would it do to put the title on Perry and then take it away in a couple weeks? Cool, so the most niche part of your niche audience would remember it?

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I too think one of the most important parts in building up a future star is giving said wrestler at quickie World title reign as his first ever championship win before losing it back to the other guy a few weeks later.

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I’m not usually one to join the line and state my daily grievances against the Elite.  I have to comment on the Young Bucks’ wrestling style or apparent lack thereof.

-They do so many power moves against opponents who should be throwing Matt & Nick around.  In any of the big Bucks’ matches.,,

- Matt does the Road Warrior double clothesline against two opponents - who are almost always much larger than the Bucks

-I assume it is Matt again because rolling Northern Lights Suplexes is the kind of power spot that he seems to love performing.

- Matt will double suplex the challengers in almost every match.  Worse yet is that he blocks BOTH opponents only to double suplex them himself.  

- They kick out of more finishes than the entire All Japan roster during the 1990s.

-Can they maybe TRY and lift a weight or two  on occasion.  They look so soft and doughy for guys who are supposed to have graduated to heavyweight a few years ago in NJPW.  
 

- They always  ALWAYS go five to ten minutes too long.  They did that every time in PWG as well.  Years ago I thought it was a PWG staple that a great match gets downgraded to something less.  This all because they can have an exciting match with the perfect ending stretch.  They avoid perfection on principal just to get 5-10 more minutes of near falls and almost unbelievable saves after numerous death blows have been used up.

I don’t dislike the Bucks as a rule.  Nor do I think the heel act is growing thin.  They can be perfect for jr heavyweight tag team matches in New Japan or when they were young yet still brash yet even still underdogs in the classic sense.  Often though their big match will be full of spots that break the logic of pro wrestling.

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4 hours ago, Jiji said:

Though I listened too much to the Beatles in university that I can no longer do it. Tapped out.

I worked a restaurant job where I worked brunch every Sunday. Walk in the back, cue our head cook Orosco, yelling "Handsome Boy! Beatles!" (Handsome Boy was my nickname and I was in control of the CD player. After I brought the White Album in once, it's all they ever wanted to hear.) 

I cannot listen to the Beatles anymore. 

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I don't like quick switch backs either in any circumstance because it wipes away the catharsis of the title switch to go back on it so quickly. That then engenders even more frustration than if they didn't do it the first place.  I thinks its okay if not ideal to go from person A to person B to person C quickly but person B at minimum should get to enjoy the moment for at least a few weeks before losing the strap to Person C. Otherwise you just grind your fanbase down and they never get to feel the sensation of the good guys really going over. 

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56 minutes ago, christopher.annino said:

The thing with heel characters like The Elite is that, at some point, they need to get their comeuppance. Fingers crossed that it comes and is something satisfying for the invested fans.

This is incredibly true and one of the major pitfalls wrestling bookers need to look out for when putting together stories. There is the one thought of the "money being in the chase" where heels come out on top the vast majority of the time and the fans are given crumbs of hope on occasion before the heels get back on top. WWE did this all the time with HHH and WCW did it all the time with Hogan to the point people became less interested because things didn't move forward and frequently reset to the status quo. Honestly, its time for Omega and The Bucks to start losing matches where they aren't teamed with narrative failures (in that the characters very rarely do anything right) like Nakasawa and Cutler. Heels used to lose all the time but escaped with the prize and kept their heat in the process. They don't need to come out on top clean all the time. 

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3 minutes ago, Casey said:

I too think one of the most important parts in building up a future star is giving said wrestler at quickie World title reign as his first ever championship win before losing it back to the other guy a few weeks later.

That your imagination is so limited as to not see the potential narrative usefulness of presenting someone as a fluke and them trying to overcome that is humorous, as it's a pretty clear-cut concept. But this is the company that thinks clear-cut narratives that get guys over as future stars involve portraying them as sloppy, mopey drunks who can't maintain eye-contact with people or even hear the name of their old friends spoken aloud. I'm clearly not as plugged into the magical thinking that goes into seemingly every storytelling choice made in this company as others.

It's really depressing to think about how the culture that makes up what little remains of this art form's fandom is largely so obsessed with lengthy arcs and everything fitting into neat little patterns. But I guess this is the sort of thinking that gave us a world where adult colouring books are a thing. Oh well. 

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