Friday Night Dynamite - 6/4/2021

[Krone]

1 minute ago, caley said:

I thought, among a lot of weird things last night, Scorpio Sky and Ethan Page following up weeks of sneak attacks on Sting with praising him for his work was really weird. I kept waiting for a dig at Sting but it never came.

Maybe the weirdest thing all night was the commentary being outraged at the Bucks for hitting their finisher repeatedly on Moxley putting him out. It wasn't like it was a sneak-attack or low-blow or weapon shot, it was a series of moves used (relatively) cleanly in the midst of a sanctioned match. It would like being outraged at Cody for using a Vertebreaker. Weird.

For the Sting thing, I saw it as a "oh shit, we didn't realize THIS is the guy we were fucking with" type of vibe. Almost like they thought he was over the hill but now that they're aware of what he's capable of - they are a little more hesitant.

Bucks, I saw as them just unnecessarily hitting their finisher over - almost like a too far type thing. If Batista powerbombed Rey six times in a row, people would go "okay, was that really necessary". Same with this.

[caley]

5 minutes ago, Krone Meltzer said:

For the Sting thing, I saw it as a "oh shit, we didn't realize THIS is the guy we were fucking with" type of vibe. Almost like they thought he was over the hill but now that they're aware of what he's capable of - they are a little more hesitant.

Bucks, I saw as them just unnecessarily hitting their finisher over - almost like a too far type thing. If Batista powerbombed Rey six times in a row, people would go "okay, was that really necessary". Same with this.

re:Sting, it's just weird to have a guy who calls himself "All Ego" showing any sort of appreciation for anyone else. I think a "The old dog had some tricks were weren't ready for" approach would be more fitting.

re:Bucks. But this is a guy who DDTed a guy through a glass table, crashed a truck into the Bucks trailer. It would be more Rey hitting repeated 619s on Randy Orton: "Sure, maybe its overkill but with all the awful things he's done, you might want to make sure he's done".

[Krone]

Just now, caley said:

re:Bucks. But this is a guy who DDTed a guy through a glass table, crashed a truck into the Bucks trailer. It would be more Rey hitting repeated 619s on Randy Orton: "Sure, maybe its overkill but with all the awful things he's done, you might want to make sure he's done".

That's that face/heel divide right there though. If Kane sets Jim Ross on fire, but then Randy Orton sets Bray Wyatt on fire - one of those two is a face move and the other is a heel move. I can't even think of a time I've ever seen a face do "more than needed to be done" to finish a match... except for Seth Rollins on Bray Wyatt with the mallet and that went over like a wet fart in church lol

[Just Dave]

I mean, it could be outrage over a guy who's done the stiff-ass work Mox has over the last year having to sell knees that shitty as death. Maybe that's just me...

[Kev]

4 hours ago, EVA said:

In fairness, who besides Thunder Rosa could you put Britt against in her first title defense and have people believe the challenger has a chance to win?  They’ve been building her to the title for over a year.  Only the thickest rubes could be tricked into believing Britt would lose the belt immediately.  In light of that, Nyla makes a lot of sense as the first challenger, as she still has decent credibility (holds a pin on Baker, has only lost 3 times in the past year) but also, as you noted, clearly isn’t someone they have big plans for in the immediate future.

Personally, I’m a lot more interested in Britt’s first defense being about growing her character, answering the question of HOW she’s going to defeat this monster that has already beaten her soundly, rather than IF she can beat some random challenger.  Which frankly isn’t much of a question, at this point, and would just be phony drama that no one would buy anyway.

I think this is fair and, when you frame it like that, it is maybe one of the better stories they could tell at the minute. I think I’m more bemoaning the overall booking of Nyla, I think if they’d handled her better since the start then a Nyla title challenge should still be a bigger deal than a foregone conclusion defence.

For a company that generally develops their characters fairly slowly and let’s their stories play out (see Hangman), it feels like they’ve burned through Nyla pretty quickly. She’s a dominant monster heel but she never really got that dominant monster run (but did have a title run so at the same time it feels like she’s already reached her ceiling). I think she’s fine in a gatekeeper role, but I feel like there was more value in her before settling into that role.

You mention her only losing 3 times in a year, but (without checking) I’m not sure that would even stand up as that impressive amongst the other women as they don’t tend to burn through big matches. And I think those 3 represent her losing every featured program she’s been in during that time (Shida x2 and the tournament final). 

[Dog]

3 hours ago, just drew said:

I mean, it could be outrage over a guy who's done the stiff-ass work Mox has over the last year having to sell knees that shitty as death. Maybe that's just me...

Spoiler

 

[Just Dave]

I have no idea what that is. I also have no idea why anyone would cape for second rate Rockers cosplayers who also happen to be fourth rate human beings. But do you, I guess.

[Firebreaker Chip]

I think Page and Sky were meant to be disingenuously blowing smoke up Sting's ass so they could play up the idea that Darby only won because he relied on a legendary tag partner to get the pinfall after he got splatted. They're moving the goalposts

"Now wrestle us with a different tag partner because we said so" isn't necessarily the most logical direction to go, but yeah maybe 62 year old Sting being Darby's invincible dad that stops him getting beat up is an idea they need to get past eventually

[Dog]

16 minutes ago, just drew said:

I have no idea what that is. I also have no idea why anyone would cape for second rate Rockers cosplayers who also happen to be fourth rate human beings. But do you, I guess.

Is "caping" like "simping"? I can't keep up anymore.

I'm fairly ambivalent on the Bucks, if that's what you're asking. Though I don't see how that's pertinent in understanding that Chris Daniels probably doesn't think the BTE Trigger is "weak."

[Big Z]

13 minutes ago, just drew said:

I have no idea what that is. I also have no idea why anyone would cape for second rate Rockers cosplayers who also happen to be fourth rate human beings. But do you, I guess.

We will wildly disagree about them in the ring, and I can accept the whole different strokes for different strokes things (I think they are a fresh, 21 century version of the Midnight Express, and no doubt Hall of Famers for any objective Halls of Fame). Away from the ring though, they are by most reports really good guys who are nothing like their current TV characters. Also, they had the guts to eschew big money and an easy schedule joining Vince and played a big part in revolutionizing 21st Century American pro wrestling by helping put AEW together. Even if they did nothing else after that, I'd always be grateful to them for that. They have clearly done far more since forming AEW (I'd call them the overall in-ring MVP's of the promotion), but glad that they bet on themselves and tapped into the fervor for something different in modern American wrestling.

[Just Dave]

46 minutes ago, Dog said:

Is "caping" like "simping"? I can't keep up anymore.

I'm fairly ambivalent on the Bucks, if that's what you're asking. Though I don't see how that's pertinent in understanding that Chris Daniels probably doesn't think the BTE Trigger is "weak."

There's an attraction element in simping. "Caping" is like what those people who say "Vince has the right to fire anyone he wants because its his company" do. There's some aspect of truth to what they say, but why would anyone ever take that side?

[Just Dave]

45 minutes ago, Big Z said:

We will wildly disagree about them in the ring, and I can accept the whole different strokes for different strokes things (I think they are a fresh, 21 century version of the Midnight Express, and no doubt Hall of Famers for any objective Halls of Fame). Away from the ring though, they are by most reports really good guys who are nothing like their current TV characters. Also, they had the guts to eschew big money and an easy schedule joining Vince and played a big part in revolutionizing 21st Century American pro wrestling by helping put AEW together. Even if they did nothing else after that, I'd always be grateful to them for that. They have clearly done far more since forming AEW (I'd call them the overall in-ring MVP's of the promotion), but glad that they bet on themselves and tapped into the fervor for something different in modern American wrestling.

I guess we will also wildly disagree on what "betting on themselves" means. They turned down a probable six figure a year deal with a company that runs house shows to make seven figures with a corporate title that allows them to virtually guarantee their own success in a company that doesn't run house shows. Pretty easy to succeed when you're an executive in the company you're also a performer for. Even easier to be seen as the company's top tag team when you're allowed to consistently book yourself that way, even while physically dominating much larger opponents to a degree that exposes the business.

I like AEW. I agree that its revolutionized pro wrestling in the 21st century. I disagree that the young bucks are at all integral in making it what it is today. AEW would be in exactly the same spot now if Gallows and Anderson or FTR had been the EVPs with Kenny and Cody. From everything I've read and seen, Cody and Tony were the key cogs in that deal, and were the only two who could've gotten the TNT deal done. And, personally, and if I step over a line with this next part, feel free to let me know, but I don't believe anyone who tweets the things they did about President Obama is a "really good guy." At that point your belief structure just isn't one I relate to. 

[Casey]

12 minutes ago, just drew said:

There's an attraction element in simping. "Caping" is like what those people who say "Vince has the right to fire anyone he wants because its his company" do. There's some aspect of truth to what they say, but why would anyone ever take that side?

Just call it what it is. Bootlicking.

[Just Dave]

2 minutes ago, Casey said:

Just call it what it is. Bootlicking.

I tend to only use that phrase in context pertaining to law enforcement, but you aren't wrong.

[Big Z]

1 hour ago, just drew said:

I guess we will also wildly disagree on what "betting on themselves" means. They turned down a probable six figure a year deal with a company that runs house shows to make seven figures with a corporate title that allows them to virtually guarantee their own success in a company that doesn't run house shows. Pretty easy to succeed when you're an executive in the company you're also a performer for. Even easier to be seen as the company's top tag team when you're allowed to consistently book yourself that way, even while physically dominating much larger opponents to a degree that exposes the business.

I like AEW. I agree that its revolutionized pro wrestling in the 21st century. I disagree that the young bucks are at all integral in making it what it is today. AEW would be in exactly the same spot now if Gallows and Anderson or FTR had been the EVPs with Kenny and Cody. From everything I've read and seen, Cody and Tony were the key cogs in that deal, and were the only two who could've gotten the TNT deal done. And, personally, and if I step over a line with this next part, feel free to let me know, but I don't believe anyone who tweets the things they did about President Obama is a "really good guy." At that point your belief structure just isn't one I relate to. 

I have not seen their tweets, but my political leanings (at least through voting) are similar to most on this board, as I have voted Democratic for every federal office since being eligible to vote save Alexi Giannoulias in 2010 (blame that one on Blago), for governor save Blago in 2006 (was correctly onto his chicanery by then), and my House rep Jan Schakowsky every time. Now, I'm much more of a Biden Democrat than the far left of the party, and still very much like Obama (though hindsight being 20/20, I would have wanted Hillary to be president in 2008, then Obama win in 2016). That said, I've always worked in sales and customer service basically my entire professional career, so I need to have some skill at separating the person from their possible political stance (and while I did not now exactly where Bucks stood politically, I would have assumed conservative given their religious beliefs and where they grew up). That said, as Chris Jericho consistently proves, it is hard to put a blanket around a person based on certain actions or behavior (acting foolishly politically and with Covid, especially in today's heightened age of attention and reaction, but also doing many incredibly kind things to wrestlers and people in need).

 

As far as the formation of AEW goes, think you have the roles of Cody and Bucks mixed up, at a minimum with the Bucks being far more committed to the project. They needed TK's money and connections to pull AEW off, but Bucks efforts in putting on All In and commitment to form AEW after that are the backbone of the company in my eyes 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Big Z

[Just Dave]

Pretty hard to "separate" guys from their tweets about wanting to physically assault Obama. 

It's clear we aren't going to come to an agreement on this. That's fine. Varying tastes in wrestling is one of the things that makes it so great. The last thing I'd want to discuss is the frankly laughable comparison you made to the Midnight Express. Not a single member of that team, in any iteration, would've suffered one iota of the young buck's business-exposing horseshit, and any combination of Stan Lane, Dennis Condrey, and/or Randy Rose would've told them to fuck off to their faces. Bobby Eaton's too nice a guy to have done that, but I doubt he'd have been very happy selling the punches the bucks threw Friday night or the softer than baby shit knees they hit Moxley with at the end of their title match. I daresay the manager of the Midnight's feelings on the matter are well established. He isn't right very often, but when he is... well, yeah. The sooner we can all move past the myth that speeding through movez without selling or reacting is what makes for a great wrestling match, the sooner we can leave the young bucks behind us.

Edited June 7, 2021 by just drew

[zendragon]

I guess the Factory finally won a match...this feud was way too one sided.

 

I was thinking how everything Red Velvet does looks so natural and crisp but then she nearly killed her self on that dive. And a few weeks ago she almost missed on a moonsault to the outside. maybe she should just not do dives and focus on the other stuff she makes look great.

They should have Rick Knox do a Nick Patrick gimmick where he becomes the official ref of the The Elite if he's gonna let the Bucks endlessly double team.

 

Overall a thumbs in the middle. Nothing to write home about but I feel it did do a serviceable job of setting the table for the future 

[zendragon]

On 6/5/2021 at 3:03 PM, Goodear said:

I know how much people love me going through the roster but I found 20 names of people on AEW’s roster page that could be moved on and wouldn’t mean a lot (I didn’t count Mel, Emi Sakura and Yuma Sakazaki because they’re never around already).

Aaron Solow, Alan Angels, Alex Reynolds, Angelico, Austin Gunn, Brandon Cutler, Brian Cage, Colt Cabana, Colton Gunn, Jack Evans, Jake Hager. Joey Janella, Kip Sabina, Luther, Mario Stunt, Michael Nakasawa, QT Marshall, Sonny Kiss, Big Swole, Penelope Ford.

I think the real issue is that none of those people are heavily featured on the TV show, the real issus is they are quickly running out of space for the people they want to feature.

 

I wonder if the final end game for this pinnacle vs IC feud is somesort of match against MJF with Jericho's career on the line. You could then transistion to Sammy vs MJF (and we just saw how over sammy was)

I actually liked Penta having a mask under the mask cause I've seen him lose 3 matches where someone pulls of his mask and rolls him up for the finish 

[Just Dave]

Re: Red Velvet; I'd never noticed that, but you're right. Huh.

[Goodear]

13 hours ago, zendragon said:

They should have Rick Knox do a Nick Patrick gimmick where he becomes the official ref of the The Elite if he's gonna let the Bucks endlessly double team.

I hate evil referee gimmicks so much. Why would Tony Khan the character allow The Bucks to do that? 

[Krone]

17 hours ago, just drew said:

I have no idea what that is. I also have no idea why anyone would cape for second rate Rockers cosplayers who also happen to be fourth rate human beings. But do you, I guess.

For fucks sake, we were discussing a finishing move on a wrestler. Also, I had zero idea what you're even referencing so I had to take a look.

Was it these tweets (or should I say RTs from the looks of it) from... 2009? From 12 years ago? Back when I was in high school and 18 years old? I'm 30 now. If you don't think peoples views and opinions can change over the course of a decade plus *Wade Barrett voice* I'm afraid I've got some bad news.

Unless there is some tweets they themselves put out there that I missed. Please, enlighten me.

[Technico Support]

On 6/5/2021 at 2:47 PM, John E. Dynamite said:

So Knox refs all the Bucks matches, it looks stupid, but only a certain subset of smark is complaining so everybody just deals with it. I don't like it either.

Aubrey Edwards refs every Jericho match.  I guess if you have a ref you're comfortable working with, then that's how it goes. 

I wasn't feeling the show...I'm not watching it Friday night like I would on a Wednesday, so I end up watching on Saturday and FFWD through stuff that doesn't interest me, which was a lot of this.

I do find it hilarious that Cody, who has HHH and Vince living rent free in his big blonde head, gets to book himself a WWE-style endless, backward feud where he, the babyface, beats both his heel adversaries (QT and Ogogo), but then they beat him on a subsequent show by cheating and the program inexplicably continues.  Meltzer points out constantly that long programs are usually not AEW's thing, but then we get Cody booking a long program, in reverse to boot.  But fuck it.  If the Family vs Factory best of 3,597 series runs forever and keeps them in their own universe, great.

I LOL'd for a long time the week prior when Big Show joked about Ogogo coming out with a lot of dudes and being scared to show up on his own.  Why did nobody smarten him up ahead of time that Cody was going to show up accompanied by everybody he ever met?

[John from Cincinnati]

4 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I LOL'd for a long time the week prior when Big Show joked about Ogogo coming out with a lot of dudes and being scared to show up on his own.  Why did nobody smarten him up ahead of time that Cody was going to show up accompanied by everybody he ever met?

Everybody wrongly assumed he'd watched enough of this shit and acquired enough product knowledge that he'd see that coming a mile away. It's Cody Rhodes, he rolls deep. Everybody knows that's a thing. Come on, Paul! 

[Technico Support]

5 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Everybody wrongly assumed he'd watched enough of this shit and acquired enough product knowledge that he'd see that coming a mile away. It's Cody Rhodes, he rolls deep. Everybody knows that's a thing. Come on, Paul! 

As soon as he said it, I thought, "is this the week Cody comes out alone and tells Ogogo he's an American Hero who doesn't need a gang of guys to fight him?  Surely they'd coordinate things with Show so he wouldn't say something that stupid."   LOL NOPE.  

[Kang]

AEW ratings

AEW: 462,000