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2021 The WWE Purge, Part 2


Pete

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1 hour ago, The Green Meanie said:

It wasn't entirely Vince's call on that, though. There were several issues regarding the Hasbro/LJN conflict that also contributed.

Do you have anything on this that indicates that LJN was willing to pull their contracts because Slaughter had a GI Joe figure? 

This reeks of Vince McMahon not liking that a wrestler got his own side deal without getting a cut himself, much like his draconian Twitch policy bullshit and his "bring everyone's YouTube channels in house" post-Zack Ryder.

Slaughter was the number two, three guy right behind Hogan in the pecking order. I think a Vince McMahon not threatened by Slaughter cutting his own deal plays intermediary, and I haven't heard anything that indicates that firing Slaughter was the must-do action. I well could be ignorant of such information, though. 

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The idea of a straightfaced, kayfabed, big budgeted Netflix miniseries or Hollywood movie of classic wrestling angles really blows my mind. CWF Dusty v. Sullivan as a horror movie? BWMJValiant takes on Paul Jones as friend after friend betrays the Boogie Man, noir-style? Gritty urban drama: Sandman's family is stolen by Raven, or Rocky-redux with Dreamer/Raven? MegaPowers explode, as larger than life personalities maneuver behind the scenes for love and respect and championships? Roddy Piper as Tarantino-esque anti-hero lashing out at the system? Rom com (with action for the menfolks) of Eddie G and his mamacita? Let the casting fantasies begin...

- RAF

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I'm not sure if there's video of this but I'll never forget Murphy vs. Aleister in Dade City, FL in front of like 300 people in February of 2018 on the NXT Coconut Loop. It may have been the best match I've ever seen in my life live. I had heard the internet rumblingz~! before this trip about the matches these two had been having down there but this REALLY opened my eyes as to how great of a worker Buddy Murphy is. 

IMG-2291.jpg

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I kinda complained about Strowman being in the 3 way at Backlash, the match ended up pretty good on all three guys part but obviously no one way expecting him to win. I kinda was left wanting to see Strowman in singles matches against Drew and Lashley. 

It seems like we bring up alot how the ship has sailed for Braun a few years ago but I never expected him to be let go. He could've been a much bigger star if the booked him right. He started on the main roster the same time as Nia Jax and had little to No time in NXT at least the main TV loop. Nia had a run in NXT and was booked as the top heel of the women's division. Both guys were brought up beating local enhancement talent. It's was really fun an fresh. It was something that set them apart from Smackdown but at the same time it's not necessarily a true test of your ability to work. Braun had his first feud with Sami Zayne where they had some fun matches then he had his first major match against Roman where I realized he was actually really good. Last year Nia Jaxx caught a ton of shit from everyone online for being Dangerous and hurting people and my mind always referenced back Braun an how they both started on the main roster at the same and how much better he was than her. She had more that one Main Event feud in NXT and to the Testament of her opponents had to this day the best matches of her career. Braun barely any TV exposure before his debut on the main roster and he had great matches early on. 

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Meltzer said the reason he was told was "injuries, a big salary and an influx of new talent (like Dilsher Shanky, Babatunde and Omos)". He went on to say that he was also told that Braun was "two years past his peak".

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1 hour ago, Casey said:

Meltzer said the reason he was told was "injuries, a big salary and an influx of new talent (like Dilsher Shanky, Babatunde and Omos)". He went on to say that he was also told that Braun was "two years past his peak".

If true, that's just cold blooded. Braun's 37. AJ Styles is what, 43? It's funny, and probably true, but it's cold blooded.

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Doing Strongman competitions is really not good for you, long term. Mark Henry is a physical freak for managing to not break down and have a decently long career.

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15 hours ago, Technico Support said:

I joke but that's the point I was making.  These delusional rubes think they can "be Marvel" when everything they create outside pro wrestling is fourth rate trash not even fit for ironic consumption.

Oh I totally agree that anything that WWE Studios has produced with a WWE Superstar in the lead role has been mostly awful.  Even the Rock's early stuff was kinda bad, but I give Kane's slasher joint a pass because I like horror and horror is hard to fuck up. 

If WWE thinks it can "be Marvel" and make money off of licensing Superstars, they are pretty fucking stupid.  i think that The Rock, Stone Cold, and John Cena all found out the hard way that transitioning to serious acting is tougher than they thought it was.  It demands just as much commitment as wrestling does and maybe more.  They've done well since then (because they committed to acting), but other WWE Superstars who have played actor in one or two films were really exposed in front of the camera.

The most successful WWE Studio's production (The Call) started Halle Berry and David Otunga was barely in it for a hot minute.  Oculus had zero WWE Superstars in it, thank God.

Edited by J.T.
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16 hours ago, Technico Support said:

It took Marvel 10 years of films to culminate in Endgame.    Vince tears up the script for Raw at 8:53pm on a Monday and can no longer book a program to peak at Mania.

Everyone wants to be Marvel but nobody really wants to put in the effort.  Everyone looks at Marvel's success, sees dollar signs, and says "we have the IP (~!) and the content (~!) to do that!"  and nobody thinks about the time, vision, and creativity that's needed.

Aside from being creatively bankrupt and as impatient as a goldfish who just snorted a rail, WWE is missing out on another key ingredient Marvel had.  Marvel has these characters that exist on a massive, multi-generational cultural level, and these characters can be exploited across films, tv, games, etc.  Vince stopped trying to create larger than life characters after one too many left him.  And wrestling characters really don't translate outside wrestling, regardless.  The whole idea that WWE can be just like Marvel is absurd.

This. All of this.

Do we think that Tony Stark saying "I am Iron Man" right before he clicks his fingers was some sort of ad lib from a stage hand?

It was years and years of character building, world building, arcs, tension, drama etc

What was the last proper story that WWE built that didn't involve a title? When was the last Mania title match with any real drama/hatred, that wasn't started by the Royal Rumble?

Vince & Co should already know who the top 2-3 matches for Mania are. Roman is obviously in one of them, Jimmy &/or Jey should absolutely be facing him if they can't get Dwayne.

But knowing Vince we will probably get a Randy Orton title win to say "Thanks for doing all that Friend stuff last year".

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3 hours ago, Casey said:

Meltzer said the reason he was told was "injuries, a big salary and an influx of new talent (like Dilsher Shanky, Babatunde and Omos)". He went on to say that he was also told that Braun was "two years past his peak".

I always try to consider the source with anything from Meltzer. It could be possible Braun Strowman could be asked to come back at a lower salary just to be in the WWE and on TV (remember, Strowman had said that if he were to quit wrestling, it would be for the WWE). But considering who is there (and part of me thinks Bruce Prichard fed Meltzer the information), I doubt it.

 

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8 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Do you have anything on this that indicates that LJN was willing to pull their contracts because Slaughter had a GI Joe figure? 

This reeks of Vince McMahon not liking that a wrestler got his own side deal without getting a cut himself, much like his draconian Twitch policy bullshit and his "bring everyone's YouTube channels in house" post-Zack Ryder.

Slaughter was the number two, three guy right behind Hogan in the pecking order. I think a Vince McMahon not threatened by Slaughter cutting his own deal plays intermediary, and I haven't heard anything that indicates that firing Slaughter was the must-do action. I well could be ignorant of such information, though. 

Slaughter had cooled off a lot once he moved on from Sheiky Baby and started working with Volkoff in the fall of 1984, by the time he left in December he was #4 behind Hogan, Superfly & JYD. It's pretty wild that the run that made him a household name only lasted around 10 months.

The McMahon's have always wanted a massive cut of any side deals, in Bruno's book he talks about Linda calling him up demanding a cut of what Bruno got for the Bally's Atlantic City commercials, Bruno wasn't working for the WWF at the time and the McMahon's had no part in him getting the commercial.

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18 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I think @Technico Support's point about wrestlers translating outside of wrestling is interesting.

Thanks, man.  This shit is fascinating.  Like someone else said, it really comes down to the statement, "They want to be Marvel," and what that means.  One guy here mentioned that it could just mean that they have separate wrestling universes and then do big crossover events.  That would be really cool and, for all the reasons already covered, they wouldn't be able to pull it off with current leadership and creative.

But if "be Marvel" means using their IP~! in non-wrestling formats, well that's just ridiculous, for a whole lot of reasons.

For one, Marvel's characters can cross formats while the the plot of what they're doing doesn't change.  They're still superheroes having adventures; just the medium changes.  As @thee Reverend Axl Futurementioned, to do the same, we'd have to have movies based on wrestling angles.  Who the hell is the audience for that?  Or do you make movies where wrestlers, played by the people who "play them on TV," have kayfabed adventures outside the ring?  Again, who wants to watch that?  And wouldn't those movies then have to tie back to the storylines on TV?  

Also, Marvel's characters can be played by different people.  You can have a Spider Man movie with Toby McGuire 20 years ago and then today have one with Tom Holland.  Nobody cares.  It's still Spider Man.  If WWE is licensing their characters out to film, who will play them?  Who will play them in two decades?  Wrestling just doesn't work that way.  As someone else here already said, we had an attempt by Vince to "recast" known characters and it didn't work.  Are wrestling fans going to watch an Undertaker horror movie in five years with same English kid playing the dead man?  Not to even mention the fact that they fire people like crazy.  Will they want to make movies with characters whose "actors" are long gone? 

Wrestling is a simple, simulated sport.  Its participants have crossover appeal more akin to real sports than comics books.  The NFL is not making a dramatic film featuring Tom Brady playing the character of Tom Brady going on fictionalized adventures that will then be tied in to the on-field narrative.  Saying wrestling can be more like a comic book requires them to completely change what pro wrestling (at least in the US) is first.  As much as Vince seems to wish he was doing something more, he's not.

Finally, licensing out your characters to make good films requires letting talented creative people take the reigns and getting out of the way.  You think Vince would do that?  He was involved in making a fictional wrestling movie and couldn't resist locking himself and Hogan in a hotel room with a suitcase full of coke and rewriting it.  He wanted to give Kane a several feet long cock in See No Evil for reasons only known to himself.  Imagine being  a proven writer or director and getting notes from Vince.  Holy shit.

Anyway, sorry to ramble, but the idea of WWE thinking they can branch out past wrestling, maybe by making movies with actual wrestling characters, all the reasons it can't work, and how all this ties to what wrestling is and is not, is fascinating to me.  Thanks for reading ?

Edited by Technico Support
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17 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Can somebody out there recommend some matches showcasing Aleister Black/Tommy End, Buddy Murphy and Ruby Riott?  I only ever saw Black work a tag match with Riccochet before their call-ups.  

 

He had a fun, weird run (he was around for a few shows, gone for a year, came back, and that was it) in PWG in 2015 and 2016.  There's a good match with Hero in there, a good one with him and Hero teaming up ("Heroes Eventually Die") vs Lucha Bros, and a BOLA match vs Drew Gulak that he won with a punch that made me LOL.  Highspots has it all for streaming.   

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24 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Thanks, man.  This shit is fascinating.  Like someone else said, it really comes down to the statement, "They want to be Marvel," and what that means.  One guy here mentioned that it could just mean that they have separate wrestling universes and then do big crossover events.  That would be really cool and, for all the reasons already covered, they wouldn't be able to pull it off with current leadership and creative.

But if "be Marvel" means using their IP~! in non-wrestling formats, well that's just ridiculous, for a whole lot of reasons.

i agree with your larger points (especially with Vince having control issues, to put it mildly!), but i think there's definite potential for using WWE IP in a non-wrestling way.

First, we've seen the wrestlers themselves in other settings. Putting aside movies, we've seen Legends House and shows like Total Bellas. In animated form, they made Camp WWE or whatever that was called. They've produced comic books for decades. Didn't Mick Foley write a kids' book with wrestlers in it?  I know, all of these were isolated examples and failed to catch on with the general public. But it's not like they've never tried this kind of thing already.

Personally, i would love an animated cartoon featuring wrestlers of today and yesterday having non-wrestling adventures. The best episodes would play into the wrestler's character traits. Imagine Ted DiBiase with a Scrooge McDuck-style vault of cash. The Lex Express on a cross-country tour. A trip to Samoa with the Anoa'i family. An Undertaker haunted house. Or Kamala in deepest, darkest Africa (ok, i don't trust WWE to represent this very well, but the idea stands). Whoever mentioned a Macho Man space adventure, while that doesn't play well with his character, i'm totally in. Add in a Max Moon cameo for kicks. Done anthology style, this could work to both (re)establish the wrestlers with a younger audience, and find out what gains traction with the public.

wrestlers are real life superheroes. larger than life characters. outlandish costumes. Play this up. 

Unrelated, but if Vince didn't have such an aversion to masked wrestlers, he could easily re-debut new wrestlers under old costumes. Hell, they did it with Sin Cara. 

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4 hours ago, AxB said:

Doing Strongman competitions is really not good for you, long term. Mark Henry is a physical freak for managing to not break down and have a decently long career.

OTOH, he's tailor-made for Strowman competitions.

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1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

Considering stories we’ve all heard about Vince veto’ing various movie/tv/commercial/etc offers for guys he didn’t see as stars, we’d get Randy Ortin Contra Cerebro del Mal.

I love that this post implies Orton changes his last name to "Ortin" to better court the Hispanic market 

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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5 hours ago, L_W_P said:

But knowing Vince we will probably get a Randy Orton title win to say "Thanks for doing all that Friend stuff last year".

Wait a minute, did Orton RKO Chandler and I somehow missed that?

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14 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

I love that this post implies Orton changes his last name to "Ortin" to better court the Hispanic market 

It's still much better than his decadent French aristocrat gimmick, Randy Ortolan

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