June 2021 Wrestling Discussion

[caley]

NXTers whom I think could jump to the main roster:

-Shotzi: The tank, the look, and all the other stuff I think would translate. I don't know how high up she'd get, but she would fit.

-Kross (with Scarlett): I think his size and his look (and his wrestling) actually fit better on the main roster. I'd probably "magic" him up a bit and make him more Undertaker-y. Also, I'd change his finishers.

-LA Knight: He can talk better than a good portion of the roster, and I think, if given the chance to talk, in front of an audience, he'll get over, even as a Mr. Kennedy-esque heel.

-Kyle O'Reilly: I never would have thought this before, but I think his offence is different enough and he's shown a bit more personality, he could get over on the main roster.

NXTers whom I think might not work:

-Cameron Grimes: He gets whatever he does over, but I think his look and size on the main roster would see him as a silly heel who gets steamrolls by the big guys all the time. I think his current gimmick/run is over big time with the NXT audience and he actually has a chance to go far with it.

-MSK: With their size and goofy personas, they'd be on Main Event before you know it.

-Hit Row, Fantasma's group: WWE hates factions for some reaason.

[Infinit]

I could totally see Kyle O'Reilly as a successful Daniel Bryan Lite if Danielson doesn't come back.

[zendragon]

Kross in ring kinda reminds me of Randy Orton when he was in Bland ten chin locks a match mode. That said I do think he has a presence about him 

[TheVileOne]

This is just me, but I've enjoyed Kross' run on NXT as of late. I thought his match against Balor at Takeover made him look like a legit tough guy/badass. Almost like a more athletic, more technically sound Goldberg. Sorry if that sounds stupid. I hope he does OK in the main roster, but I no longer have faith as such.

Edited June 29, 2021 by TheVileOne

[Infinit]

1 minute ago, TheVileOne said:

This is just me, but I've enjoyed Kross' run on NXT as of late. I thought his match against Balor at Takeover made him look like a legit tough guy/badass. Almost like a more, more technically sound Goldberg. Sorry if that sounds stupid. I hope he does OK in the main roster, but I no longer have faith as such.

I'm a Kross guy too

[Niners Fan in CT]

2 hours ago, Freudian_Slap said:

Hey sorry just checking, does anyone here use social media? I don't know that it's been discussed

DVDVR is my social media. 

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

2 hours ago, Eivion said:

... we already saw quick and fast WWE can screw up a good group with Hurt Business. 

They wear suits and they’re like, ‘We’re cool’.”  What more do the writers need to know?

[Eivion]

7 minutes ago, Gordberg said:

They wear suits and they’re like, ‘We’re cool’.”  What more do the writers need to know?

It was a Vince issue. Supposedly everyone kept telling him it was a terrible idea to break them up.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Eivion

[Burgundy LaRue]

4 hours ago, Dog said:

I feel like Reed and Shotzi are not suited for the "main" roster, and I always have. Should be interesting.

If those two aren't RAW/SD ready, then no one in NXT is. Shotzi has a distinct look, devil may care persona, and built-in merchandise opportunities with her tank/helmet. She's Jeff Hardy with XX chromosomes. I think WWE's general fanbase will like her. Bronson has a Godzilla motif going and while he overlaps Otis in terms of size/body type, Bronson feels more polished. At worst, someone mentions his Samoan background to Vince and they put him with Roman/The Bloodline as a hanger-on.

As far as who would do well with a callup:

Toni Storm: She's doing nothing in NXT. She's coming along decently with her promos and she has an overall look VInce should like. See what she can do on SD.

Kyle O'Reilly: I agree with @caley, KOR is showing more personality. His quirkiness will endear him to a lot of fans. The actual wrestling obviously isn't a problem. I think he stays in NXT for a while yet, but it feels like he'd at least slot into a Zayn/KO upper-midcard spot if called.

LA Knight: Decent size, can talk, and likely can pull off whatever comedy stuff they give him. Would give them another midcard heel to work with.

Grizzled Young Veterans: A wildcard, but I think they could it. Gibson is a good promo and can get heat to where fans will want to see them get beat.

With Grimes, it comes down to how far they lean into the hillbilly thing. NXT has found the sweet spot for him.  But who knows how far Vince would want to take it.

As for Kross? I find myself wavering between 'maybe he'll do OK' and him crashing/burning in a year. I thought Balor went above and beyond making him look good in their matches. He needs to better define his character. He wears gladiator trunks and street clothes resembling a blackjack dealer, but Scarlett still feels like a possessed siren. I get mixed signals from them. A lot hinges on getting his presentation just right. His match on Main Event didn't give me much hope. I can see Vince and Prichard falling for Scarlett and separating the two, not even in some weird attempt to break them up personally, but that she might simply do better managing another wrestler. They have to let her start talking, though. There will be no in between for Kross. Either he's a complete hit or a big miss.

[Phantom Lord]

Yeah, I never got the whole deal with Kross and Scarlett other than they are a real couple. He needs her if he ever wants a chance on the main roster. She on the other hand doesn't need him if she got the call.

LA Knight I could totally see filling the Ken Kennedy role if he got called up. But at the same time he would probably become the next EC3 and well we all remember how that worked out for him.

[Shartnado]

5 hours ago, caley said:

-LA Knight: He can talk better than a good portion of the roster, and I think, if given the chance to talk, in front of an audience, he'll get over, even as a Mr. Kennedy-esque heel.

Are we likely to see another EC3, where they therefore not let him talk at all (or even use signs, like he had to in TNA at one point )?

[Burgundy LaRue]

I still think EC3 pissed off someone backstage. Even if Vince isn't interested in a wrestler, they'll get 4-5 weeks of a 'push' as a courtesy. EC3 didn't get that.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

50 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

I still think EC3 pissed off someone backstage. Even if Vince isn't interested in a wrestler, they'll get 4-5 weeks of a 'push' as a courtesy. EC3 didn't get that.

I'm with you 100% on that. I literally cannot remember a single thing EC3 did there other than one NXT multiman ladder match. Pretty baffling when you consider his extremely Vince-friendly physique. Maybe they thought he was Dixie's nephew IRL.

[Eoae]

13 hours ago, Eivion said:

Strictly speaking most of the women could easily work/fit on the main roster. The booking is just so incompetent and hyper focused on a few that most of the time its better they not move up.

Agree about the not-moving up part.  Not sure I think most of the women could move up AND get a decent push.  Shotzi could catch on, but she has an unusual look.  If the tank entrance doesn't catch on right away, she could be Ruby Riott 2.0.

Kai?  Maybe.  LeRae?  Has the look Vince likes (when she's blonde), but I don't feel she'll ever get a call-up, and, if she does, I think it's be strictly as a spare part.  Io's outstanding, but she's small and doesn't promo well in English.  Asuka's done ok on the main roster, but she has more physical charisma than Io.  Kari Sane didn't get much of a chance.  So... I dunno?  I feel like Ember Moon would be a no-brainer if she hadn't already been on the main roster without much of an impact.

Like the men, I feel like the women's roster is filled with a lot of projects.  Aside from maybe Racquel, no one seems as suited for the main roster as Rhea or Shayna.  And Shayna is in a "creative has nothing for you" mismatched tag team that's feuding with a doll, while Rhea is champ but doesn't really seem to be that over.  So who knows?

NXT men's roster is filled with lots of guys who seem like they'll never get called up or are longshots.  I kinda feel like Cole, Gargano, Strong, Thatcher, Ciampa, and a few others would already be on the main roster if the WWE had any serious intention of calling them up.  O'Reilly?  I dunno.  He's showing some personality lately, but I'm still not sold on him for the main roster.  Kushida seems like he should have already gotten a call-up if they were planning to do it.  Same with Toni Storm.

Dunne and the Brits?  Do they have the physical charisma and mic skills to sell Vince?

Grimes?  MSK?  Maybe.  I like Grimes a lot as a dimwit heel, and MSK is fun, but.... being relegated to the 24/7 chase after only three months wouldn't surprise me.

Maybe Bronson Reed can get over as something besides dancing fat guy.  Hope so.  LA Knight can talk but he's an average worker and his age might be against him.

WWE struggles to get their "blue chip" prospects over on the main roster.  I don't have a lot of hope for current NXT which seems filled with more projects than in the past.  We'll see.

  

Edited June 29, 2021 by Eoae

[RIPPA]

Well remember - there was that one Dark match where the put EC3 with Drake Maverick as his manager and everyone but Vince liked it.

And that pretty much was the death of his main roster career

I should also note that he was snake bit too as he suffered a concussion right before debuting on the main roster which delayed his debut (and probably irritated some front office folks) and then suffered the 2nd concussion that lead to him being off TV for like 6 months before his release

[Shartnado]

1 hour ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

I still think EC3 pissed off someone backstage. Even if Vince isn't interested in a wrestler, they'll get 4-5 weeks of a 'push' as a courtesy. EC3 didn't get that.

The whole thing still baffles me to this day. Not that I've thought about it until just now, but yeah, still baffled. Something doesn't seem right about that one.

 

...aaand Rippa points out things that I wasn't aware of, which make things quite a bit clearer.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Shartnado
Saw Rippa's post on the subject

[The Natural]

Have we ever had a go at the Mount Rushmore of the Greatest Talkers in wrestling history? Mine:

Mick Foley. Foley's ECW work as he goes against what he once stood for, hardcore wrestling and his rocking chair promo with Barbie in the lead up to Backlash 2004. My #1 pick.

Steve Austin: Had to include Austin when he cut what I regard to be the best wrestling promo ever 25 years ago after winning King of the Ring at the 1996 event.

Jake Roberts: Roberts' promo at the 1991 Survivor Series has stayed with me since a boy. "It's not even the beginning of the end, yet the end of the beginning." Don't forget the WrestleMania VII promo either.

Ric Flair. "To be the man, you have to beat the man" and "With a tear in my eye. Wooooo!"

Four honourable mentions in no particular order:

Roddy Piper, Paul Heyman, The Rock and Bobby Heenan.

[The Natural]

Might switch Ric Flair with Bobby Heenan or Paul Heyman.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

37 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Have we ever had a go at the Mount Rushmore of the Greatest Talkers in wrestling history? Mine:

Mick Foley. Foley's ECW work as he goes against what he once stood for, hardcore wrestling and his rocking chair promo with Barbie in the lead up to Backlash 2004. My #1 pick.

Steve Austin: Had to include Austin when he cut what I regard to be the best wrestling promo ever 25 years ago after winning King of the Ring at the 1996 event.

Jake Roberts: Roberts' promo at the 1991 Survivor Series has stayed with me since a boy. "It's not even the beginning of the end, yet the end of the beginning." Don't forget the WrestleMania VII promo either.

Ric Flair. "To be the man, you have to beat the man" and "With a tear in my eye. Wooooo!"

Four honourable mentions in no particular order:

Roddy Piper, Paul Heyman, The Rock and Bobby Heenan.

That's a pretty great list. Out of guys I don't think you've mentioned, I might add Dusty, Macho, Thunderbolt Patterson, Terry Funk... and Eddie Kingston, who is the only current guy I'd give serious consideration to.

He's maybe not known as a great talker, but the single greatest promo I have heard was cut by Archie "The Stomper" Gouldie in Stampede after Bad News Allen beat up Gouldie's son.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Gordberg

[NikoBaltimore]

I feel that Arn at least should be an honorable mention.  When you're with Flair it's easy to seem a bit overshadowed in that department but Arn was/is so damn good at it.

[For Great Justice]

To add to this topic and also piggy back off of the Miro discussion in the AEW thread, who is the best non-native English speaker (for English promos) on this list?

Its almost Eddie, but last I checked El Paso was in the USA so he’s out. Then there’s Owens as a clear candidate from recent/current guys. But all time? I dunno.

Edited June 29, 2021 by For Great Justice

[Log]

34 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

I feel that Arn at least should be an honorable mention.  When you're with Flair it's easy to seem a bit overshadowed in that department but Arn was/is so damn good at it.

I think Arn and Eddie Kingston are the best at making me believe that they believe what they're saying.

Most of the others we've mentioned are more "showy".  They're awesome, but they're almost acting.  They're turning it way up.  Arn and Eddie are more low-key with their delivery.  They can get intense, but it's not yelling and screaming and catchphrases.

I can't, at the moment, think of any other great promos like that.

[The Natural]

1 hour ago, Gordberg said:

That's a pretty great list. Out of guys I don't think you've mentioned, I might add Dusty, Macho, Thunderbolt Patterson, Terry Funk... and Eddie Kingston, who is the only current guy I'd give serious consideration to.

He's maybe not known as a great talker, but the single greatest promo I have heard was cut by Archie "The Stomper" Gouldie in Stampede after Bad News Allen beat up Gouldie's son.

Thank you.

Edited June 29, 2021 by The Natural

[The Natural]

1 hour ago, Gordberg said:

That's a pretty great list. Out of guys I don't think you've mentioned, I might add Dusty, Macho, Thunderbolt Patterson, Terry Funk... and Eddie Kingston, who is the only current guy I'd give serious consideration to.

He's maybe not known as a great talker, but the single greatest promo I have heard was cut by Archie "The Stomper" Gouldie in Stampede after Bad News Allen beat up Gouldie's son.

You meant to say Cody, right?

;).

[zendragon]

27 minutes ago, For Great Justice said:

To add to this topic and also piggy back off of the Miro discussion in the AEW thread, who is the best non-native English speaker (for English promos) on this list?

Its almost Eddie, but last I checked El Paso was in the USA so he’s out. Then there’s Owens as a clear candidate from recent/current guys. But all time? I dunno.

I'd go with Konnan or Pat Patterson