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MAY 2021 Discussion of Wrestling.


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5 hours ago, AxB said:

Considering indie Keith was a WTF spot guy, the fact that the most impressive bit of his WWE run is a spot where he climbs on to the ring apron (and the guy revving up in the corner doesn't seem him), that's really something.

Are we going with the "Vince thinks he needs to learn how to work like a big man" theory, or the "Vince thinks he's not in shape" theory?

Why not both?

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Also, let's look at how, yet again, another can't miss person was fucking ruined coming up to the main roster.

  • Keith Lee is immediately over on the main roster after his Royal Rumble and Survivor Series appearances.
  • The Survivor Series appearance is more notable since they actually pushed the guy and made him seem like a big deal.
  • Then he just fucking disappears off the main roster.
  • He comes back and doesn't really get a chance to talk, but gets some cool moments with Braun and shit like that.
  • And then they change his entrance music to some fucking garbage.
  • And then they change his ring gear because to Vince or Kevin Dunn or someone, he's fat.
  • He proceeds to do nothing except winning by DQ or fuck finishes because WWE can't be bothered to heavily push more than 2 guys at one time.
  • By this point, it's hard to believe they'll do anything with Keith Lee.
  • He gets hurt or sick and is just gone from TV.

You could build a whole other promotion out of the amount of can't miss guys WWE has fucked around and done nothing with.

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Skimming through some Raw results, it looks like he was on a decent little push before he vanished. A couple wins against Sheamus, a win against Riddle, a competitive title match against McIntyre. Him disappearing completely after getting hurt or sick and people reflexively chalking that up to "Vince bad" as a default position is certainly in keeping with the thought virus that makes him the cause of all wrong in the universe. Not even saying anyone's wrong, but it's interesting what sort of things people do and don't find it acceptable to go off on without evidence.

Hope Lee is healthy and back in the mix soon. 

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48 minutes ago, Craig H said:
  • Keith Lee is immediately over on the main roster after his Royal Rumble and Survivor Series appearances.
  • The Survivor Series appearance is more notable since they actually pushed the guy and made him seem like a big deal.
  • Then he just fucking disappears off the main roster.

He wasn't on the main roster back then. He was still NXT. They actually fucked up when they put him on the main roster since they screwed him out of a long NXT champ run.

51 minutes ago, Craig H said:
  • And then they change his entrance music to some fucking garbage.

This was apparently a money dispute with whatever company technically owned the music. 

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1 hour ago, Zimbra said:

German Suplex was because of Hackenschmidt Gotch, right?

e: wrong guy

I have also heard it attributed to Olympic gold medalist Wilfried Dietrich (who also did a couple of pro wrestling matches), though his most famous suplex was a belly-to-belly one (at the 72 Olympics), so Karl (not Frank) Gotch probably is the correct answer.

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Alexa Bliss Playground segment tonight with the new Womens Tag Champs. Lot of rewriting going on for the show too.

Also The Saudi Arabian Ministry of Sports Twitter posted that they are returning to sporting events with fans, so expect maybe Saudi Mania shows coming back this year.

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Didn't they send Keith Lee back to the PC with some "big guys" to learn how to work like big guys? It was him, maybe heavy machinery? Shoot i can't remember who reported it, if it was clickbait shites or legit reports? But someone had shared a tweet naming some guys unless I'm Mandela effecting some memories?

 

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No, that happened. They think that's how he caught Covid. And yes, it makes no sense that you'd take a guy who's USP is that he's a big guy who can move like a small guy, and make him into just a big guy.

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1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

The list of big guys sent back to the PC was/is

  • Keith Lee
  • Otis
  • Mace (Dio Maddin)
  • Dabba-Kato (General something or other)
  • Omos

I thought it was only four people. I don't recall Babatunde/Dabbo-Kato being mentioned.

 

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"Hire a big guy who can fly and then train him to work like Diesel instead" is so on brand with WWE.  "Hire a portly fellow and then get upset when he shows up portly and do what you can to cover up his portliness" is likewise on brand.  Shit, just cut out the middleman, avoid all the cost of fabric and retraining time, go back to hiring 6'2" 245lb dudes out of the International Male catalog and training them to "work."

Edited by Technico Support
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Last night we were randomly discussing body guys in Smoky Mountain and how there weren't many. But it got me thinking, if Chris Candido had been born 20 years later, so he was 28 now, what would his career have looked like? Would he be considered a Hoss in NXT or AEW, under current standards?

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13 minutes ago, AxB said:

Last night we were randomly discussing body guys in Smoky Mountain and how there weren't many. But it got me thinking, if Chris Candido had been born 20 years later, so he was 28 now, what would his career have looked like? Would he be considered a Hoss in NXT or AEW, under current standards?

All things being equal, a Candido in his late teens/early 20s trying to break into wrestling around 2010ish wouldn’t be under the same pressure to get artificially jacked up to make up for his short stature.  So I don’t think he’d be a 5’8” roided up bulldozer in AEW or NXT.  More likely, he’d have a more athletic build and be this era’s Bryan Danielson.

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I wonder how much Brock botching the shooting star press at 'Mania killed the chances of having any highspotty big guys in the WWE.  Seems like the kind of thing Vince would hold onto.

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1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

"Hire a big guy who can fly and then train him to work like Diesel instead" is so on brand with WWE.  "Hire a portly fellow and then get upset when he shows up portly and do what you can to cover up his portliness" is likewise on brand.  Shit, just cut out the middleman, avoid all the cost of fabric and retraining time, go back to hiring 6'2" 245lb dudes out of the International Male catalog and training them to "work."

I mean, they did put Johnny Ace back in that hiring role again so you're probably not far off.

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1 minute ago, Technico Support said:

We're gonna party like it's 2005!  Male and female underwear catalogs as far as the eye can see!

A whole roster of Jindraks and Chris Masters. Cool. Neat.

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45 minutes ago, Zimbra said:

I wonder how much Brock botching the shooting star press at 'Mania killed the chances of having any highspotty big guys in the WWE.  Seems like the kind of thing Vince would hold onto.

I would say Lee nearly killing himself a few times probably had more to do with style changes they wanted.

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Candido always had a rep as a great worker so what are some really good matches of his? The most I ever saw of him was the Bodydonnas, and nobody talks about that shit ever (probably for a reason, that was up there with the Dynamic Dudes as far as gimmicks go). 

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