Westeros!

[supremebve]

I thought it was basically spelled out that it was Bloodraven, who is an old Targaryen bastard.  He was a former Master of Whispers, Hand of the King, and Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.  Here is a quote about him from Dunk, from about 100 years before Game of Thrones.
 

How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have? the riddle ran. A thousand eyes, and one. Some claimed the King's Hand was a student of the dark arts who could change his face, put on the likeness of a one-eyed dog, even turn into a mist. Packs of gaunt gray wolves hunted down his foes, men said, and carrion crows spied for him and whispered secrets in his ear. Most of the tales were only tales, Dunk did not doubt, but no one could doubt that Bloodraven had informers everywhere.

 
 
 

[DMN]

I haven't really got into any of the theories, outside of like, R+L=J, despite having read all the books, because I'm not even sur where to go talk about the books outside of here, really. I find them interesting, though.

In a similar vein, what would be the prevailing theory on Coldhands? Not Benjen Stark, I hope.

[WholeFnMachine]

From a Wiki of Ice & Fire 

 

Coldhands seems to be a brother of the Night's Watch: he wears black and calls Samwell Tarly "brother." Therefore the dominant theory is that Coldhands is a dead or missing brother of the Night's Watch. Possibilities include:

• Benjen Stark, who disappeared beyond the Wall during a ranging
  
• Lord Commander Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers
  
• Ser Waymar Royce, who was killed by Others
  
• Will, who was killed by Waymar Royce
  
• The Night's King, who was a known consort of the Others
  

Evidence Against

Brynden the Bloodraven is very likely to be the Three-eyed crow, and so could not also be Coldhands.

The Night's King was said to be deposed, his name "wiped from the memory of man," which sounds like he was thoroughly destroyed and likely to have been burned if it was known he was consorting with the Others.

Leaf, the child of the forest Bran meets at the cave of the Last Greenseer, says of Coldhands: "They killed him long ago." Will, Waymar Royce and Benjen Stark died/went missing only two years prior, a small amount of time for someone over 200 years old.

[Red is Dead]

Do we really need spoiler tags here, or can we just assume that if you're in this thread, you've done all the reading?

 

Just started the third novel...in between catching up with pratchett, but i wont get pissy if people spoil too much. Just kinda makes me excited to read more of it.

[JRGoldman]

 

From a Wiki of Ice & Fire 

 

Coldhands seems to be a brother of the Night's Watch: he wears black and calls Samwell Tarly "brother." Therefore the dominant theory is that Coldhands is a dead or missing brother of the Night's Watch. Possibilities include:

• Benjen Stark, who disappeared beyond the Wall during a ranging
• Lord Commander Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers
• Ser Waymar Royce, who was killed by Others
• Will, who was killed by Waymar Royce
• The Night's King, who was a known consort of the Others

Evidence Against

Brynden the Bloodraven is very likely to be the Three-eyed crow, and so could not also be Coldhands.

The Night's King was said to be deposed, his name "wiped from the memory of man," which sounds like he was thoroughly destroyed and likely to have been burned if it was known he was consorting with the Others.

Leaf, the child of the forest Bran meets at the cave of the Last Greenseer, says of Coldhands: "They killed him long ago." Will, Waymar Royce and Benjen Stark died/went missing only two years prior, a small amount of time for someone over 200 years old.

 

 

 

I'm probably blanking on something, but why couldn't the three eyed crow and Coldhands be one and the same?

[Buy Me a Burrito]

So last night's end scene tells me that WoW is close.

[WholeFnMachine]

I'm currently reading The World of Ice and Fire, it's fantastic, especially if you're someone who likes history.

[AxB]

I'll be reading that next month. After the 25th, probably. Some things you buy on ther release date, some you put on your wishlist. And for some reason, I've decided this is wishlisty. Probably the GRRM stories in Rogues and Dangerous Women... it's probably a lot easier to write history in that Maester's voice than it is to write ASOIaF books and live as someone who's there, but it's a lot less involving to read it that way.

[Liam]

Has anyone read 'The North Remembers' fanfic?

 

Just was something I'd seen crop up a couple of times - was wondering what people thought of it.

[Raziel]

So last night's end scene tells me that WoW is close.

You were saying?

[supremebve]

 

So last night's end scene tells me that WoW is close.

You were saying?

 

Is this based on some sort of release update, or based on the lack of a release update? 

 

I heard an interveiw where he was talking about the World of Ice and Fire, where he said he wrote something like 300,000 words...and I think they only used like 18,000.  So he basically wrote 1,000 pages about the history of Westoros that weren't used in the World of Ice and Fire and won't be used in the rest of the series.  I just shook my head and thought, seriously George, I don't want to be one of those douchebags shit talking about how long it takes for the books to come out, but dude you're making it fucking hard.

[Raziel]

Lack of release update.

 

Honestly, if the show passes the books, ok, so long as the books eventually come out.  

[AxB]

Has anyone read 'The North Remembers' fanfic?

 

Just was something I'd seen crop up a couple of times - was wondering what people thought of it.

 

GRRM is strongly against the idea of fanfic. So most of his fans follow that lead. Go to Westeros.org and mention a fanfic and they'll probably tell you to go fuck yersel.

[Buy Me a Burrito]

I'm still thinking the book could be out by next Christmas. 

[AxB]

h ttp://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/feb/06/game-of-thrones-letter-george-rr-martin-love-triangle

 

A leaked 22-year-old letter from Game of Thrones author George RR Martinreveals the author’s earliest plot ideas for his epic series of fantasy novels, which included a disturbing love triangle that failed to make the final cut.

Written to his agent, the late Ralph Vicinanza, the letter is dated October 1993, and in it Martin pitches “the high fantasy novel I promised you”, A Game of Thrones...

Martin also names his “five key players” as Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, – Arya, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow.

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But he reveals an unexpected original plan for Arya, who is nine when the series opens. Martin writes: “she realises, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night’s Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy.” The character Tyrion, according to the letter, also falls “helplessly in love with Arya Stark while he’s at it. His passion is, alas, unreciprocated, but no less intense for that, and it will lead to a deadly rivalry between Tyrion and Jon Snow.”

 

I strongly doubt GRRM will actually get back to that in the actual books now. Or at least I hope he doesn't.

[AxB]

New sample chapter on georgerrmartin.com. It's Alayne (Sansa in disguise).

[EVA]

I finally finished DANCE today. The fact that I felt no urgency to read this new excerpt probably speaks to where I'm at with George's writing right now.

[offspring515]

So George spilled on his blog that the original plan was for Winds to hit stores before season six begins. He missed both a Halloween and New Years deadline, so that isn't happening.

He says he still has chapters and chapters to write, so who knows when the book sees the light of day.

[Buy Me a Burrito]

Maybe by the start of season seven. Sigh.

[OSJ]

You guys lack fortitude and patience. I remember discovering Jack Vance's Demon Princes in '72-'73 and quickly reading the three volumes extant at the time. It was obvious that there would two more novels in the series as there were five "demon princes" and they tended to have the life expectancy of a housefly after running into the hero of the series. The books had come out in intervals of two-three years, with The Palace of Love having been released in 1967, so Book #4 was actually overdue, so I figured any day now... Finally, in 1979 DAW Books brought out The Face and Vance dutifully followed up with the final volume, The Book of Dreams two years later. So I waited almost ten years to finish the story, whereas people who had bought the first three books as they came out had a twelve-year gap between #3 and #4. 

 

As fun as the series is, it's completely formulaic, and the kind of thing Vance could write in his sleep, so why the twelve year gap? I asked him at a convention and he just laughed it off and said something like "time got away from him". GRRM's delays are irritating simply because he seems to have plenty of time to fool around with other projects like reviving Wild Cards, editing a Vance tribute anthology, shopping on eBay for military miniatures, and whatever else he gets up to in order to avoid working on his magnum opus. And you just know he already has the thing plotted out to the very end, so it's just a matter of applying ass to chair and fingers to keyboard.

[AxB]

He doesn't have it plotted out to the very end. That's why it's taking so long, he keeps re-writing things to make sure they happen in the best order, then writing a bit more and deciding to go back and change the previous bit to make the subsequent bit better... and then having to re-write loads because of the Butterfly effect.

[The Z]

Well, I'd rather read the best possible book than one that was rushed out to meet a deadline, so I don't really care.

The show would have caught up with the books anyways. There's still one more book to come after this one and there's no way in hell that one's being released before the show is over.

[OSJ]

He doesn't have it plotted out to the very end. That's why it's taking so long, he keeps re-writing things to make sure they happen in the best order, then writing a bit more and deciding to go back and change the previous bit to make the subsequent bit better... and then having to re-write loads because of the Butterfly effect.

 

Okay, that makes sense, so not only is it breaking new ground for him in terms of genre, he's using a different methodology than what he's used to doing. (From an interview years ago, I picked up that his composition style was very similar to mine: outline, outline, outline. Doing so makes sense for several reasons, mainly, you've finished the hard stuff, and now you're just fleshing out scenes and incorporating dialogue. Makes it easy to finish the story/novella/novel which you should ALWAYS do. A completed anything is a tangible asset, three chapters and an outline is a meaningless stack of paper. I'm just amazed that GRRM would eschew a system that's always worked for him in the past, particularly for a project of this complexity. I can't even get my head around the idea of a "cast of thousands", multi-volume epic without a couple of hundred pages of outlines and notes. Good on him for trying it, 

[AxB]

The analogy he used was driving from Chicago to California. He knows where he's setting off from, and he knows where he's arriving at, but he doesn't know which exact route he's taking, which exact hotels he's staying at, whether he's stopping at the town he has dinner in or driving another few hours to the next one, et cetera.

 

When you look at his past work, he's basically a short story writer who's done a few novels (in many cases by writing enough connected short stories that they can be anthologised into a longer narrative). So this being his first stab at a multi-volume epic, most likely he didn't realise how over-complex it was going to become until he was too deep into it.

[supremebve]

Has anyone read the Sansa chapter from Winds of Winter that he released a few months back?  No spoilers, but it is a chapter where a whole lot of characters come in contact with Sansa.  If you aren't paying attention to the names it would seem like a chapter where nothing at all happens.  If you remember all of the names and recognize who they are aligned with it tells a story beneath what is actually on the page.  The amount of people and plots that he has to keep track of has to be overwhelming to put together.  Knowing where you want to go is the easy part, actually getting there is the hard part.  He has to keep track of what literally hundreds of people are doing and how it impacts the plot as a whole.  I fully understand why it takes so long for him to write these books, there is no way to do it right and do it quickly.