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WANDAVISION (Massive Spoiler Thread)


JonnyLaw

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14 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Yeah, it was definitely Cliff.  I watch with subtitles on.

 

So do I, but I still did a "Really, Hawkeye is the big cameo?" before my brain caught up.

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The end was something. I know going forward with any other MCU shows I'm putting zero stock in fan theories and rumors ? 

I'm absolutely interested in seeing where we go next with Wanda and how they set up her tie-in with Strange 

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So WandaVision's creator Matt Shakman was on Kevin Smith's podcast and said that there was a scene that got cut from the final episode that had basically all the B characters (Monica, the twins, Darcy, etc...) trying to steal the Darkhold but Señor Scratchy stopped them by turning into a "demon"

 

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Also from that same podcast - Shakman says they intentionally did the stuff with Fietro as basically a call back to the Mandarian in Iron Man 3 as to "play with expectations"

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I haven’t watched the interview, so I may be missing important context but......it was a call back to a swerve that was so poorly received that they had to produce a short film to undo it?  That seems very dumb in an un-Marvel-like way.

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56 minutes ago, EVA said:

I haven’t watched the interview, so I may be missing important context but......it was a call back to a swerve that was so poorly received that they had to produce a short film to undo it?  That seems very dumb in an un-Marvel-like way.

Yeah, not a trend that needs repeating - and I LIKES the Mandarin swerve (probably because it'd been spoiled for me). 

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57 minutes ago, EVA said:

I haven’t watched the interview, so I may be missing important context but......it was a call back to a swerve that was so poorly received that they had to produce a short film to undo it?  That seems very dumb in an un-Marvel-like way.

Well both Shakman (and Kevin Smith) think that is the best part of IM3 so.... yeah....

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Not to restart a discussion that’s been had a million times, but I’ve always been of two minds on the Mandarin thing:

Judged in a vacuum, I thought it was hilarious and it worked for the story they were telling in IM3.

In the grander scheme of the Iron Man series and the MCU at large, I thought it was tremendously short-sighted and dumb to trash a cool, unique villain like the Mandarin in favor of another lame Evil White Guy in a Business Suit, which the MCU already had way too many of at the time and STILL pumps out to this very day (including on this very show!).

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17 hours ago, Hayabusa said:

The end was something. I know going forward with any other MCU shows I'm putting zero stock in fan theories and rumors ? 

 

Before I watched the finale, I saw so many headlines about people being disappointed.  I'm guess this was backlash from all the fan theory people being disappointed over not getting Dr. Strange, Nightmare, Mephisto, Reed Richards, and any number of other characters they'd convinced themselves we'd see.  Dudes worked themselves into a shoot, brother.

As a podcast I enjoy has been saying lately, you can fantasy book, just don't fantasy believe.

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Honestly - it is exactly like wrestling fans every year with the Royal Rumble

They will work themselves into a shoot because like CM Punk didn't show up and win

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16 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Honestly - it is exactly like wrestling fans every year with the Royal Rumble

They will work themselves into a shoot because like CM Punk didn't show up and win

Morale: Fantasy booking just leads to disappointment,  whatever the context. ?

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2 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Before I watched the finale, I saw so many headlines about people being disappointed.  I'm guess this was backlash from all the fan theory people being disappointed over not getting Dr. Strange, Nightmare, Mephisto, Reed Richards, and any number of other characters they'd convinced themselves we'd see.  Dudes worked themselves into a shoot, brother.

As a podcast I enjoy has been saying lately, you can fantasy book, just don't fantasy believe.

You nailed it perfectly friend, between Wandavision finale and Revolution with the HOF worthy signing i let myself get carried away with online fantasy booking and well.... ? let's just say that this past weekend was the last straw in me putting any stock in fan theories no matter how rational and logical they might seem ?

Between the Skywalker level cameo, etc., I took the bait hahahaha. I waited and waited, and ? waited more. I loved the show, and where it went ultimately made sense. But listening to fan theories and hearing out the rationale and logic, like.. okay not again hahahaha. 

Ditto Revolution, Wight hypes up a HoF worthy signing and im thinking it'll be some young talent thats still got plenty left in the tank and then ? Christian??? 

 

 

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2 hours ago, The Natural said:

Assembled: The Making of WandaVision is up. Few minutes in but wanted to let you know before I continue.

Insightful show showing how WandaVision was made. The music was talked up as it should, I forgot to at times. How can you not bring up Agatha All Along? Bad omission that. Liked to have some more talk on Wanda's final costume also. The documentary ends on "But what is grief if not love persevering?" That quote is beautiful. Whoever wrote it deserves a bonus.

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It's interesting how far off people's expectations were relative to the show that was actually made. What was actually made was more measured, focused, self-contained, and served itself as opposed to the broader MCU than what most of us expected. It's interesting because most MCU projects would fall upon the former than the latter. I think the biggest exception is probably Age of Ultron where things like the Thor vision were more or less forced on Whedon (unless I'm mistaken) or Iron Man 2 which ends up shoehorning a lot of stuff about SHIELD to the detriment of the overall movie. I'm curious why we all thought this would be different.

Some thoughts:

  • We knew coming in this was going to set up not just Dr. Strange 2 but also Spider-Man 3. We knew Wanda herself would be in Strange 2 and Nightmare was rumored for that as a villain.
  • Wanda's comic arc had her becoming a very overt villain multiple times, really, and also serving as more of a catalyst than a character (House of M, Avengers Disassembled) or outright possessed Secret Empire.
  • Given the nature of show and the amount of real estate they had to tell it, it felt unlikely that she could get any sort of meaningful closure.
  • Said comics arcs had her create the kids in a series such as this but then lose them and go nuts/evil in her attempts to get them back. Obviously, that might still happen.
  • It was the first Disney+ show, and the first show in general really, and pre-pandemic, it made sense that it would be more of an extra to serve the movies, relative to something that had its own satisfying arc.
  • On paper, there were just a lot of moving parts with Woo and Darcy and Agatha and Vision, and as we got watching Hayward and the potential secret of a number of the neighbors as well.

I don't think it perfectly balanced all of these elements, and there are people who are frustrated that there was no Reed or Nightmare or Mephisto or Salem's Seven or a real Quicksilver of Magneto or whatever, but it served Wanda as a character far better than I think a lot of us were expecting. So if you take it for the story it was and not the story you might have wanted it to be, it's easy to be happily surprised.

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It just came up that the showrunner didn't even know who Mephisto was until after she filmed the show and that "Grief" was the villain all along. At this point, I think the problem isn't the showrunner or the fans but it's Feige. They were so careful to keep what the show was going to be close to their vest that they didn't properly set expectations. At the least, he should have gotten in front of Bettany's cutesy comment with a "Oh, Paul's just playing with you on that one but there is a special surprise in the middle of the show that I can't wait for people to see." I don't think it's some horrible offense or anything, but it would have helped.

That said, part of the problem that we're so post-modern in how we consume things that the natural genesis of the story being Monica's origin story was just taken for granted. "Oh yeah, Monica's in it. Of course she'll become Spectrum. What DON'T we know about?" and it's hard to make a character's journey feel genuine in that environment. It's like a 1997 NWO vs WCW NItro Main event where the crowd spends the entire match staring at the back waiting for the run in.

That a lot of people felt emotional resonance to the show anyway was an accomplishment.

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5 minutes ago, Matt D said:

That a lot of people felt emotional resonance to the show anyway was an accomplishment.

Because I think you (and this is more a general "you") are putting way to much stock in how big the population is of show watchers is who religiously read everything/read the comics/fan theory is compared to the general population who just watch the show.

Like I am decently aware of everything that is going on and the only reason I knew about Bettany's "actor I would like to work with" comment was because of y'all talking about it here. And my wife, who has watched everything (sans Spider-man movies) follows nothing pop culture related (except for what I tell her) so she isn't gonna be disappointed because a fan theory she read online isn't coming true.

Same goes for things being on social media (especially Twitter). I think there is a WAY over estimation of how far down the rabbit hole people are. (Think of the debrief after the 2016 election for another/maybe better data point here.)

I guess another way I am trying to say this is like how we talk about pro wrestling and the way we all consume it (ways arms around at whole board) compared to how most people who watch wrestling do.

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1 minute ago, RIPPA said:

Because I think you (and this is more a general "you") are putting way to much stock in how big the population is of show watchers is who religiously read everything/read the comics/fan theory is compared to the general population who just watch the show.

Like I am decently aware of everything that is going on and the only reason I knew about Bettany's "actor I would like to work with" comment was because of y'all talking about it here. And my wife, who has watched everything (sans Spider-man movies) follows nothing pop culture related (except for what I tell her) so she isn't gonna be disappointed because a fan theory she read online isn't coming true.

Same goes for things being on social media (especially Twitter). I think there is a WAY over estimation of how far down the rabbit hole people are. (Think of the debrief after the 2016 election for another/maybe better data point here.)

I guess another way I am trying to say this is like how we talk about pro wrestling and the way we all consume it (ways arms around at whole board) compared to how most people who watch wrestling do.

Yes and no.

Wrestling is a super niche product right now. Avengers: Endgame, which you needed a pretty deep understanding of dozens of hours of movie-time to follow, is the biggest grossing movie of all time.

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2 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Yes and no.

Wrestling is a super niche product right now. Avengers: Endgame, which you needed a pretty deep understanding of dozens of hours of movie-time to follow, is the biggest grossing movie of all time.

Again - I think you are giving too much credit to people

To over simplify, a lot of folks just wanna watch big dumb movies where Hulk Smashes

To be a little more specific - I know a few people who hand picked Marvel movies ie: the "Big Ones" (Avengers, Infinity War, Endgame, maybe one or two more) and had no issues following along, nor did they really feel like they were missing much. So maybe that is where the disagreement is in that I believe those people are way greater in number than just being an exception.

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2 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Again - I think you are giving too much credit to people

To over simplify, a lot of folks just wanna watch big dumb movies where Hulk Smashes

To be a little more specific - I know a few people who hand picked Marvel movies ie: the "Big Ones" (Avengers, Infinity War, Endgame, maybe one or two more) and had no issues following along, nor did they really feel like they were missing much. So maybe that is where the disagreement is in that I believe those people are way greater in number than just being an exception.

Sure, I do think those people exist. I think that the sheer number of people in the other "initiated" category are still huge both in an "actual number" perspective and in the share of the total watching population.

To clarify though, when I say "it's admirable that people still felt resonance despite that," I'm mainly talking about the people that went on that weekly journey together here.

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