AEW R-Evolution II - 3/7/2021

[Sex Machine Gun]

Just remembered the ridiculous MJF "suck it" spot. Someone HAD to have blown their timing on that, I can't conceive that sequence went as planned because it was dogshit. It didn't just make MJF look like a goof but the Bucks never sell anything and yet one of them (can't remember who) was laying on the mat and selling during that nonsense.

Man, if I'd started posting here eight, nine months ago I would have sounded like the biggest MJF mark that ever marked. They ruined him, and considering his age it's possibly the biggest tragedy of AEW so far.

AND ANOTHER THING, fuck, why do things keep popping into my head? I want this company to succeed, goddammit!

You had the heels in the preshow match flipping the bird like it was required for them to keep breathing. Then in the opener of the show proper the heels do a bunch of middle finger displays and spots. I don't remember it any more beyond that but it shows how little coordination is going on between these matches. Too many fuckin' motifs get repeated or spoiled before their time.

I wouldn't be this critical if I didn't want AEW to become a legit #1 competitive promotion. WWE is so full of bullshit that it's expected and almost redundant to point out the stupid junk but this feels different, like it HAS to work or the entire business goes under and is reduced to some kind of late 19th century form where it's intensely localized and the carniest of carny shit.

[For Great Justice]

Right, it's the inorganic nature of Christian's debut that rings hollow. Debuting as a big debut, rather than debuting organically as a part of a storyline. The former basically never works.

Edited March 8, 2021 by For Great Justice

[The Natural]

Just added.

[Niners Fan in CT]

30 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

...and?

it's overblown.  Christian is a pretty big star.  Only a handful of guys would have been a bigger signing.  i don't buy the idea that they hyped him too much.  WWE will hype up a big return for weeks and then it's like "oh... Braun Stroman is back."   Even if you're a fan of Braun that's a letdown.  I was legit surprised by Christian because i figured he'd be in WWE after the Rumble performance. 

Their promise of a surprise delivered in my house lol

Edited March 8, 2021 by Niners Fan in CT

[Hagan]

Christian inspires a question of "how big a star is he?" Kayfabe wise he's a huge star. Either a four or six time world champion (if you count ECW). A member of one of the most popular teams during the Attitude Era. Has headlined PPVs for both TNA and WWE and JUST made the Final Four of the Rumble like five weeks ago. 

He's always been more popular than his push but he's also a guy the WWE has always pushed at least at an upper-midcard level. He'd probably be teaming with Edge and involved in the main event angle on Smackdown if he stayed with WWE. 

If he's healthy, and his work is still up to par, he could have some really good matches in this company. He's a good promo and angle guy too so there's a ton of value in this. 

He's always been weirdly over in the sense that he's probably a bigger star than people assume. I mean, if we were ranking the six TLC guys as far as star-power he's probably third behind Jeff and Edge and ahead of Matt and the Dudleys. 

The treatment of vets is such an interesting question. NJPW de-emphasizes guys once they hit a certain age with the exception of guys like Suzuki. Meltzer was ready to storm the Tokyo Dome at the way he felt Tana was being buried. WWE by and large treats veterans like broken down has-beens and buries them underground, especially if they were never viewed as top stars in their primes. Look at how Jeff Hardy and Rey who are legitimately money-drawing wrestlers are treated as cannon fodder. 

Edit: adding thoughts - as I noted in a previous post, I think TNA has just poisoned the well so much that any signing of a WWE guy is seen as going down a dark path. I dunno, if I'm Tony Khan I wouldn't shy away from any WWE vet barring the asking price wasn't Brock money. It's all about usage. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Hagan

[Sex Machine Gun]

An angle they really should pursue which just came to me and I don't think I've seen anyone explore it yet:

Why wouldn't Kenny have made the 30 minute explosion weak if he's the one who designed it? If I have yet to put away an opponent by that point, then I'm still going to be in danger when this shit blows. I know, I'll make it weak so it doesn't hurt me and I have better chances of keeping my belt!

Ah fuck, disregard, I just realized that if that was going to be the intent they wouldn't have done their best to beat cheeks and keep Moxley in the blast area.

Am I the only one who wants them to just ignore it entirely and never show any replays? Moxley was fucked up in that match from the barbed wire and the bat and the interference and gone for a while and if you didn't see it then you missed out and let's move on. What about Eddie Kingston? Who's that? 

... every idea I have to fix this runs into a wall in the forms of if you actually saw it live, how the commentary sold it, how Kingston sold it, the Moxley mic work postshow, the Khan explanations... (brain circuits short out)

[John from Cincinnati]

The hype they triggered wasn't merited for Christian. But I like him and if he can still go then I'm excited to see him impart his knowledge to the young folk. Folk like Jungle Boy. Preferably in twenty minute blocks on live television. Soon.

[For Great Justice]

90% chance Cody has already pitched an angle involving his use of the Ocarina of Time to go back and retcon it. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

I disagree that AEW over hyped the surprise signing. Big Show literally just said a HOF worthy guy is signing Sunday. That means someone who isn't in the HOF but is certainly on the level. In context, they mean the WWE HOF... the only wrestling HOF the general audience knows of. The Hall of Fame Koko B Ware is in. The HOF Vince's limo driver is in. This isn't the NFL HOF reserved for the tippy top 2% of the best GOATs that ever played that have to be voted in. The WWE HOF is about someone that is solid, or memorable, or contributed something WWE found a lot of value in. Christian certainly belongs. He's better than Koko, and the limo driver, and 75% of the people in there.

And they literally just threw it out there 4 days before the PPV. It's NOT AT ALL fair to compare it to who is the third man from the nWo or whatever. All AEW said is someone we consider HOF worthy is signing here in a couple days. And TK hyped up he's one of his favorites of all time. Christian is one of my favorites of all time too, so I don't find that out of line to say at all. How did anyone conflate any of this to expect Punk, Rock, Cena, Brock? Like wtf. If they had signed any of them it would have been pushed so much fucking harder and specifically said one of the biggest names of all time / mega star / whatever. Not just on par with Koko B Ware / HOF worthy.

Regardless tho, I do agree that he should have just debuted as a surprise. Or even the same way Big Show did, by random Twitter announcement that no one expected. Had they done that, no one could get their (wrongly) high hopes up. But for real Christian is the best option out of all the likely names. He can go. So for anyone that did expect a Brock / Rock / Cena / Punk I have this question to ask. Why? Why did you expect someone so huge on a thrown away under hyped thing thrown in 4 days before a PPV?
 

[Sex Machine Gun]

Hey, here's a positive: I loved Team Taz showing up to their cinematic street fight in a candy green BMW i8. They've never conferred that kind of glamorous image to Team Taz where they're rolling around in mid-engined two seaters but I like the contrast between that and their hard-nosed portrayal. Why not have the toughest also be the most extravagant?

[A_K]

45 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

...and?

Exactly. If you own a night club, or a restaurant, or a theatre or any other entertainment business you live & die by fulfilment of marketing. You don’t pitch a global superstar-surprise DJ then roll up with a decently known name of yester-year. The rules of engagement remain the same.

 

Why people think it is the essence of a wrestling promotion to be some carny snake-oil over-hype job I never quite understand. Probably the reason in lockstep as to why the industry has faded so dramatically in popularity.

[Eoae]

Regarding the surprise signing, I'm more than a little amused that Punk took to Twitter to deny that he was he was the mystery guy - and a lot of fans responded with "That's exactly what he'd say if he WAS the mystery guy.  IT'S CONFIRMED!  PUNK TO AEW!"

Lol.

I don't really feel like AEW overhyped the announcement, but.... once it took off and expectations shot through the roof, they should have just announced it was Christian.  I doubt the signing got them that many extra buys and it probably won't be worth the backlash.  

In all honesty, I'm kind of disappointed it's Christian, but I never believed it was going to be a bigger name like Punk or Brock.  Realistically, I expected it to be Angle or Christian.

[Hagan]

The WWE once delivered Savio Vega as a mystery man in '98. As we all know, that derailed their momentum and they went on to have the worst financial run of their history as fans quit the company in droves.  

[A_K]

4 minutes ago, Sex Machine Gun said:

Hey, here's a positive: I loved Team Taz showing up to their cinematic street fight in a candy green BMW i8. They've never conferred that kind of glamorous image to Team Taz where they're rolling around in mid-engined two seaters but I like the contrast between that and their hard-nosed portrayal. Why not have the toughest also be the most extravagant?

Ricky Starks as late 90s Rock in $500 dollar shirts ( let’s call it a thousand with inflation ;)) is pure money. Hell just keep Starks & Cage from that set up and let Starks do all the talking. Tazz is totally superfluous.

[Matt D]

Is there any other place on the internet (past sister board PWO) where people think that Christian was absolutely a better wrestler, by a huge margin, than Edge? (Not a bigger star, not a better talker, not had a better career, but better in ring wrestler). Is that a major wreddit or F4W talking point?

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

The thing about the Christian thing is that he didn't cut a promo. Yeah I get that they want to save that for Dynamite, but actually if he'd cut a great promo then I think it would have been less of a disappointment. All he needed to say really is "I was the NWA World Champion in Impact Wrestling, I was the ECW World Champion (possibly with snarky joke), I was World Heavyweight Champion in WWE, and I came back from retirement for One. More. World. Title. The AEW World Championship."

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by RunningFromAmerica

[SirSmUgly]

37 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

it's overblown.  Christian is a pretty big star.  Only a handful of guys would have been a bigger signing.  i don't buy the idea that they hyped him too much.  WWE will hype up a big return for weeks and then it's like "oh... Braun Stroman is back."   Even if you're a fan of Braun that's a letdown.  I was legit surprised by Christian because i figured he'd be in WWE after the Rumble performance. 

Nah, it's not really overblown. It's not underblown. It's blown.

You don't have to hype up every signing. It's okay to admit that maybe saying "we're going to have a HOF'er (near HOF'er? I forget the exact wording)" as a way to sell your PPV and then having that dude be Christian, who was not really that big a singles star and whose biggest claim to stardom was as the eventually less-pushed, less-popular member of a tag team from twenty years ago, is probably not the best option. 

It's not like a killer or anything, but it's silly. Christian isn't even Kurt Angle status.

I also don't get the comparison to WWE. It's irrelevant. Yes, they suck, too. See, for example:

Quote

The WWE once delivered Savio Vega as a mystery man in '98. As we all know, that derailed their momentum and they went on to have the worst financial run of their history as fans quit the company in droves.  

This is a silly strawman. No one here, I don't believe, is arguing that this will kill AEW. It's just an example of not presenting a debut optimally. We can all disagree without the silly made-up arguments, yes?

Edited March 8, 2021 by Smelly McUgly

[Sex Machine Gun]

No one's mentioned (for understandable reasons) that the Singapore Cane being used in the main event was... different. Like it was a real one that wasn't meant to shatter or bend for visual purposes over someone. Much darker wood, and looked super stiff. Between that and what appeared to be a majority of legitimate barbed wire might be why I actually got into a deathmatch a little for once.

[Goodear]

2 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Nah, it's not really overblown. It's not underblown. It's blown.

You don't have to hype up every signing. It's okay to admit that maybe saying "we're going to have a HOF'er (near HOF'er? I forget the exact wording)" as a way to sell your PPV and then having that dude be Christian, who was not really that big a singles star and whose biggest claim to stardom was as the eventually less-pushed, less-popular member of a tag team from twenty years ago, is probably not the best option. 

It's not like a killer or anything, but it's silly. Christian isn't even Kurt Angle status.

I agree that this is just a misstep, not some sort of giant catastrophe. Did they do Christian any favors? Nah. Did they wreck him forever? Nah. 

[Technico Support]

WWE workers like Shotzi and T-BAR making fun of this finish on Twitter is like the Jets proudly talking shit on the Chiefs for one loss.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Technico Support

[Niners Fan in CT]

8 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

who was not really that big a singles star and whose biggest claim to stardom was as the eventually less-pushed, less-popular member of a tag team from twenty years ago, is probably not the best option. 

See right here again you are underselling the guy.  He was a multiple time world champion in the biggest promotion in the world.  Now granted it was on SD! which wasn't treated the same as RAW but he did feud w/  Orton.. he even feuded with Cena at one point..  

You can make a case for this being "oversold" or whatever w/o the hyperbole of narrowing his career to "random tag wrestler". 

That's my problem with the argument. He was JUST in the Final Four of the Royal Rumble and nobody said or thought he was out of place.. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

10 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

You don't have to hype up every signing. It's okay to admit that maybe saying "we're going to have a HOF'er (near HOF'er? I forget the exact wording)" as a way to sell your PPV and then having that dude be Christian, who was not really that big a singles star and whose biggest claim to stardom was as the eventually less-pushed, less-popular member of a tag team from twenty years ago, is probably not the best option.

How is Christian not a near Hall of Famer? The Hall of Fame current includes such mega stars as Nikolai Volkoff, William The Refrigerator Perry, Greg The Hammer Valentine, Koko B Ware, The Bushwackers, ect. The Hall of Fame isn't just the Hogans / Pipers / Flairs of the world. Explain to me how a former 6 time World Champion is not as big of a singles star as Nikolai Volkoff. Your making the argument about who you believe is a star / HOFer vs who is ACTUALLY in the HOF.

Christian was never *the guy* of an era in wrestling. But he's absolutely been a main eventer for the two biggest national promotions existing during his career. He held World Titles in both of those companies. How is that considered not really that big of a singles star? Sure he's not Austin. He's not Hogan. But he definitely was a singles star that main evented PPVs for World Championships.

[John from Cincinnati]

3 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

See right here again you are underselling the guy.  He was a multiple time world champion in the biggest promotion in the world.  Now granted it was on SD! which wasn't treated the same as RAW but he did feud w/  Orton.. he even feuded with Cena at one point..  

You can make a case for this being "oversold" or whatever w/o the hyperbole of narrowing his career to "random tag wrestler". 

That's my problem with the argument. He was JUST in the Final Four of the Royal Rumble and nobody said or thought he was out of place.. 

Nobody promised anything before the Royal Rumble and let the zaniest fans in the world run wild with their imaginations for half a week. You'd think the "promoter of the year" would have a better understanding of how promises are received by the public. 

[SirSmUgly]

7 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

See right here again you are underselling the guy.  He was a multiple time world champion in the biggest promotion in the world.  Now granted it was on SD! which wasn't treated the same as RAW but he did feud w/  Orton.. he even feuded with Cena at one point..  

You can make a case for this being "oversold" or whatever w/o the hyperbole of narrowing his career to "random tag wrestler". 

That's my problem with the argument. He was JUST in the Final Four of the Royal Rumble and nobody said or thought he was out of place.. 

No, I'm not underselling the guy. He's an awesome worker, one of my favorite guys, but he was ECW Champ when it was a third brand that no one cared about except for us, and then he was WHC when the WHC was a secondary belt to the WWE Championship. 

 

"He feuded with Cena." OK, so did Wade Barrett. Who cares?

 

There's no hyperbole there. At his most prominent/popular, with a wide audience during and immediately post-Attitude Era, he was the second banana in a great tag team. You can stop trying to pretend that ECW and WHC title reigns in whatever Godforsaken era we're calling this one for WWE are at all meaningful. 

6 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

How is Christian not a near Hall of Famer? The Hall of Fame current includes such mega stars as Nikolai Volkoff, William The Refrigerator Perry, Greg The Hammer Valentine, Koko B Ware, The Bushwackers, ect. The Hall of Fame isn't just the Hogans / Pipers / Flairs of the world. Explain to me how a former 6 time World Champion is not as big of a singles star as Nikolai Volkoff. Your making the argument about who you believe is a star / HOFer vs who is ACTUALLY in the HOF.

Christian was never *the guy* of an era in wrestling. But he's absolutely been a main eventer for the two biggest national promotions existing during his career. He held World Titles in both of those companies. How is that considered not really that big of a singles star? Sure he's not Austin. He's not Hogan. But he definitely was a singles star that main evented PPVs for World Championships.

Weird flex since I didn't ever say Christian is not a near-HOFer in the context of the WWE HOF. Who gives a shit about the WWE HOF as some sort of metric, really? It's a WWE wankfest so they can reinforce their version of wrestling history.

Y'all need to actually read and respond to what is said. I know it's more fun to attack arguments that you made up yourself because that's easier, but we can do better than that.

Anyway, I think your point about the WWE HOF compared to fan expectations is ironically a wonderful point in my favor. When Wight said "HOFer," the fandom didn't think AW YISS, KOKO B. WARE IS ALL ELITE, now did they? Actually, the typical AEW fan probably has quite a different idea of HOFer than the WWE brass does, much less just general fans who don't really rate the WWE HOF as particularly important. 

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

I do agree that Christian is obviously a viable Hall of Famer, but he has never, to the best of my knowledge, actually main-evented a WWE PPV. Now that's largely because he never had a real match with Cena, but it is worth saying.