AEW Dynamite - 2/17/2021

[Peck]

3 minutes ago, matt925 said:

In the observer Dave says shaq has been training with qt Marshall. 
 

Tbh, I'd pop huge if Shaq came out in one of QT's old "God's Gift" robes.

[The Natural]

Serena Deeb and Riho are draws. Take that, Jim Cornette!

[TheVileOne]

2 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

I at least have hiigh hopes for Jade. Maybe not for this match but long term she can be good. And considering......well..... everything else about her I sure as hell hope so. 

As for Shaq I'm just asking for a decent enough move or two so he doesn't embarrass himself. Anything else is icing on the cake. 

Has Jade ever actually wrestled before? Like outside of training? 

Edited February 20, 2021 by TheVileOne

[Web Conn]

I don’t think so

[EVA]

9 hours ago, The Natural said:

Serena Deeb and Riho are draws. Take that, Jim Cornette!

Look, guys:  I know Riho isn’t going to be everybody’s cup of tea.  If you can’t get past her size, I understand.  No worries.

But it’s undeniabe that she connects with the larger audience, and AEW would be foolish not to keep building around her.  You could see it in how she was able to win over cold live audiences, back in the days when we had such things.  And you can see it in the response to her comeback match here.  She’s a star.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

I've definitely come around on Riho - when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Happy to be wrong on this one, in fact.

I think part of it for me was that I just honestly didn't know who she was, so my first experiences seeing her work was with Nyla, who at the time really hadn't yet improved to where she is now (and kudos to her for that). So I think maybe there was a sort of awkwardness to some of the sequences that I may have misattributed to Riho's size. I think those two would have way better matches now than they did last year if they ever put em together again.

[Kang]

Riho~mania !

[John from Cincinnati]

A peak number on a sub-800k show and crowd reactions from a year ago are nice, but the bar for stardom sure got low. This feels like when we look at whatever undercard act is popping this week or that week and declare them "money." I get some people like her and it's clearly been decided she's going to be pushed hard, but hyperbole abounds. 

Hopefully Britt or Rosa manage to cure you all of your Rihomania. 

[sabremike]

I have been going to shows for years and I have NEVER seen a match that going in didn't seem like there was much interest for it just completely tear down the goddamned house like the Riho-Nyla Rose match on the first Dynamite. Live the place was going completely nuts. If you don't think Riho has something special that connects with the audience then you have no idea what you are talking about.

[John from Cincinnati]

Sounds like a difference of definitions. I see competence where you see something special. Rihomania~!

Happy you got to experience that live though. Always fun when a match overdelivers. 

[Kev]

At the risk of being contentious, my take on Riho.

I think the talking point that sometimes gets brought up about guys/gals not looking legit/like athletes is valid, e.g. with Marko. But I don’t think that really applies with Riho in terms of her stature. She pulls off stuff like the northern lights and the bridge with opponent on top off her, which show good strength/athleticism, and it’s not really like she’s dwarfed that much by the other women (bar Nyla but she’s their monster heel so that’s fine).

My main issue would be the child-like frilly skirt getup, it just looks weird to me and massively uncool. I’m not suggesting everyone has to be a cool, badass character, but that leads into the next point, she’s never really had any character or stories established.

Obviously she’s good enough in-ring and portrays the underdog well enough that her matches get over, but there’s something missing for me. I think if you’re going to have a slightly unconventional look then it helps to have more character work to back it up, otherwise I’m thinking why do I want to cheer this woman who dresses like a child. I’d draw a comparison to Kushida in NXT, really good in-ring and matches are entertaining in a vacuum but why do I want to cheer this dork randomly dressed like he’s in Back to the future.

Although the match itself was good, I think putting the belt on her so early was a mistake. She could have benefited from a bit more build leaning into the underdog character before finally slaying the beast.

 

[WholeFnMachine]

19 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Has Jade ever actually wrestled before? Like outside of training? 

She was on the AEW Unrestricted podcast and I’m almost positive she has either never had a match or maybe had 1. She played college basketball and is I believe a child psychologist and a personal trainer. I remember listening to the podcast thinking, man, I hope she’s training her ass off because they’re giving one hell of a build to someone who has near zero experience let  alone a run anywhere. 
She has an incredible look, that’s undeniable, her promos fall flat to me because she’s shown nothing to back up anything she says. Training BJJ for the last 12 years has taught me one thing above all else, lots of folks LOOK like they can fight, but they get lost really quick when it’s time to go. 
I’m not a big fan of the whole celebrities in wrestling thing, I feel like it demeans and undervalues the years of hard work these women and men put in to learn their craft and get where they are. So this whole thing isn’t my cup of tea. I just hope no one gets hurt and that Jade has been putting in the ring time. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by WholeFnMachine

[Zakk_Sabbath]

6 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

A peak number on a sub-800k show and crowd reactions from a year ago are nice, but the bar for stardom sure got low. This feels like when we look at whatever undercard act is popping this week or that week and declare them "money." I get some people like her and it's clearly been decided she's going to be pushed hard, but hyperbole abounds. 

Hopefully Britt or Rosa manage to cure you all of your Rihomania. 

Not trying to be a dickhead, but I'm not sure I see your point. Britt is one of the most improved women they have, alongside Nyla, Anna and a bunch of others, and Rosa's long been good. The great thing about AEW is that I think they are getting to a place now where all of these women can be featured without it being at the expense of one another. They OBVIOUSLY have something with both Riho and Serena after last week, but going with them now doesn't mean it has to make Britt or Rosa now take a back seat. 

This is probably also going to be less of a problem post Covid when the Joshi women can travel, and the second TV show goes forward.

[John from Cincinnati]

29 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Not trying to be a dickhead, but I'm not sure I see your point. Britt is one of the most improved women they have, alongside Nyla, Anna and a bunch of others, and Rosa's long been good. The great thing about AEW is that I think they are getting to a place now where all of these women can be featured without it being at the expense of one another. They OBVIOUSLY have something with both Riho and Serena after last week, but going with them now doesn't mean it has to make Britt or Rosa now take a back seat. 

This is probably also going to be less of a problem post Covid when the Joshi women can travel, and the second TV show goes forward.

My point was Riho isn’t the clear “star” she’s made out to be based on the criteria presented. The break was meant to separate that from my hopes as a fan that one of my preferred wrestlers takes her out of the tourney so I can be spared the Riho show. Didn’t mean to get that all muddled. And you’d have to try way harder to be a dickead. 

Considering how little time the division gets, I’m sure the Joshi women travelling will only muddle things even more. We’ll see. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by John from Cincinnati

[ka-to]

Riho has had star power and the ability to pop a crowd since she was 10 years old. She grew up, kept her charisma and can now wrestle main event style. Her story is seeing her grow over the last decade. It is wonderful to see her on US TV now. I paid to go to a DDT sub-promotion show just to see her a couple of years ago. I would watch her even if she was in one of the Vince leagues, like Kushida and Io and AJ. 

[Casey]

I guess I have no idea about what makes wrestling wrestling, or whatever, because I don't see really anything all that great in Riho. She's a really good wrestler, yeah, but if you have a problem with Marko Stunt going up against people bigger or whatever the issue people has with Marko, then you should have the same problem when Riho faces Nyla Rose or (god forbid) an eventual Riho vs Jade Cargill match. It doesn't bother me personally - I think she's a perfectly fine wrestler, and I don't mind it if she gets in heavy offense against someone bigger, because this is all fake anyway at the end of the day, but the Marko/Riho thing seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Shida/Riho will be a good match, but I'm going to be real disappointed if this mess of a tournament is all done just to either A) give Riho another title reign or B) have Shida retain, again. It's long past time to give Britt Baker the title, IMO. And unless Riho is moving to America like Shida did, and she'll be there every week, having an absent champion during a global pandemic isn't the right choice, especially with quarantine rules being what they are in various countries.

And I say mess of a tournament because it went from being fairly straight forward (US side on Dynamite, Japan side on YouTube) to now being the semifinal matches are on Bleacher Report's website, some of the quarter final US matches are lumped in with the Japan YouTube show, and they have two weeks to do all of this.

(If Riho wins, I hope Kris Statlander returns the next week and immediately beats her and sends her back to Stardom or wherever the fuck and we replace her with Ryo Mizunami)

[Brian Fowler]

It's the Rey Mysterio principle. If you are really small, you need to be really fucking great.

Riho is really fucking great.

[The Green Meanie]

Here's my take on Riho (and Serena):

I'm not a fan of either, because to me, they're not entertaining. Athletic, yes, but not entertaining. I don't really get their appeal to other people, honestly. But, different strokes for different folks, we could be saddled with worse talent. I'm glad the company has enough variety that everyone can find someone they like.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, Brian Fowler said:

It's the Rey Mysterio principle. If you are really small, you need to be really fucking great.

Riho is really fucking great.

I don't really have a huge problem with Riho, but if you're going to be of that size, your athleticism has to make up for that. She's somewhat athletic and plays the plucky underdog well, however, it's extremely tough to buy her as a believable champion when that's all she can be and half the girls are 5x bigger than her. Rey for a good portion of his career at least got to work with guys who were a few inches taller than him and probably outweigh him by 15 pounds, but it's in the realm of believability. I can believe a 150-160 pound man can beat up some guy who is 170-200 lbs. Shit happens all the time in MMA and boxing cause of bad weight cuts and people (incorrectly) think having a huge weight advantage will put them over the top against someone who is technically better than them. Now if we shift it to women, a good atomweight in MMA or minimumweight in boxing (105 lbs) ain't beating Cris Cyborg or Amanda Nunes and Katie Taylor or Claressa Shields respectively. It just ain't happening. 

Even on a bad wheel, I'm just waiting for Serena Deeb to eat her up cause as a fan that's what you expect. Hell, that's how it would be booked 9 out of 10 times in some women's enhancement match. As much as I sorta liked the match, it never convinced me that Riho could legit be going over someone who is much bigger than her. Some segments of her offense were just too slow, telegraphed, and deliberate. It just makes the woman having to sell that look kinda phony. I wish that she had the motivation of a Leyla Hirsch where despite being green and smaller than the other women, she's a feisty fire plug who doesn't just stand around and wait to do a move. Be super aggressive and make it look believable instead of it looking like the other woman should be able to fling you into the fifth row.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

12 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I don't really have a huge problem with Riho, but if you're going to be of that size, your athleticism has to make up for that. She's somewhat athletic and plays the plucky underdog well, however, it's extremely tough to buy her as a believable champion when that's all she can be and half the girls are 5x bigger than her. Rey for a good portion of his career at least got to work with guys who were a few inches taller than him and probably outweigh him by 15 pounds, but it's in the realm of believability. I can believe a 150-160 pound man can beat up some guy who is 170-200 lbs. Shit happens all the time in MMA and boxing cause of bad weight cuts and people (incorrectly) think having a huge weight advantage will put them over the top against someone who is technically better than them. Now if we shift it to women, a good atomweight in MMA or minimumweight in boxing (105 lbs) ain't beating Cris Cyborg or Amanda Nunes and Katie Taylor or Claressa Shields respectively. It just ain't happening. 

Even on a bad wheel, I'm just waiting for Serena Deeb to eat her up cause as a fan that's what you expect. Hell, that's how it would be booked 9 out of 10 times in some women's enhancement match. As much as I sorta liked the match, it never convinced me that Riho could legit be going over someone who is much bigger than her. Some segments of her offense were just too slow, telegraphed, and deliberate. It just makes the woman having to sell that look kinda phony. I wish that she had the motivation of a Leyla Hirsch where despite being green and smaller than the other women, she's a feisty fire plug who doesn't just stand around and wait to do a move. Be super aggressive and make it look believable instead of it looking like the other woman should be able to fling you into the fifth row.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, brother, but AEW is *not* Mixed Martial Arts. 

AEW is, if I understand correctly, a mix of weightlifting and basketball.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Just now, El Gran Gordi said:

I hate to be the one to break it to you, brother, but AEW is *not* Mixed Martial Arts. 

AEW is, if I understand correctly, a mix of weightlifting and basketball.

Maybe Jade could use Riho as a makeshift dumbbell for her bicep curls. Would make for a hell of a visual.

[DreamBroken]

Loving the Serena/Bret comparisons. I'm reminded of a match she had with Nikki Roxx 10 years ago that went near 20 minutes, based around headlocks and chain wrestling that was really great. Glad to see her on such a good run again. 

[Jiji]

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I wish that she had the motivation of a Leyla Hirsch where despite being green and smaller than the other women, she's a feisty fire plug who doesn't just stand around and wait to do a move.

Saya Iida! She's going to be phenomenal. Mei Suruga strikes me as a little more athletic and way more charismatic Riho. Riho is really good but I don't think she's great for the reasons you mention regarding passivity and lack of snap/athleticism in some of her stuff. A lot of the near falls look great, the more mat-based techiques, but anything that requires her to get vertical, not so much. But I don't think it disqualifies her from being a good champ in such a shit division as it was until they brought in the likes of Rosa and Deeb who are very good athletes and a few of the others progressed. 

Speaking of, that's going to be a big deal with a lot of the current indie wrestlers imo. As the indies have evolved from obscurity to the home of wrestling fans becoming wrestlers (smaller dudes), to now the drama kids, there are a lot of people who just don't have the athleticism to not bring me out of the illusion. They have the personality for days undoubtedly but need lots of time not on TV to getting in reps and maybe dropping some stuff. I mean, in reality, wrestling even on cable tv is now niche so I guess it doesn't really matter. It's why they probably felt there wasn't a point in introducing the joshi, because anybody watching either knows or did a few minutes of their own research. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

27 minutes ago, Jiji said:

But I don't think it disqualifies her from being a good champ in such a shit division as it was until they brought in the likes of Rosa and Deeb who are very good athletes and a few of the others progressed. 

No, I thought she was an alright champion for when they first started the company. I think people put too much stock into who would be the first champ when most folks probably won't remember this stuff if AEW lives, grows, and prospers. I was saying exactly what you said when you got to "until...". As they start using better talent and getting women who are built a certain way (meaning more muscular, large frames), it's a lot tougher to take her seriously unless she steps her game up to justify being at a certain level. I'm not one of these people who is like "get Riho off my tv set", but I think her role right now is plucky underdog who beats some of the lesser tier girls but loses to girls who they probably should be doing things with. 

Like I have to stop short of calling her like this female Rey Mysterio because Rey and others got in that door by wrestling each other. It's not like Rey was this giant killer. Riho is more like a diminutive Mikey Whipwreck. There was a time where Mikey was holding every major ECW title. Then he was just a guy because that little phase peaked, and Heyman got all he could out of it. Once that was done, he was used to put folks over and be a good hand. I think that's where I have Riho pegged at. They're building a crop of workers in that division and if they succeed in that build come 1-2 years from now, I don't see her as one of the featured women.

[Jiji]

And that's just with who they have right now. They bring in half of the talent from the Japan bracket long-term and maybe one or two of those are part time or rotated in and out of their home promotions plus maybe somebody experienced and talented from WWE in that time period and they are then at the point they should be getting as much if not more time than the men going off merit. As is, I understand why they don't put them on TV too much but they could've at least done more with their higher end wrestlers, Shida in particular as she so often goes missing for stretches despite being champ. Jade Cargill based on the almighty it has all of the potential in the world and then some. Where is she going to be in 2 years from now? That is an awful lot of pressure to put on somebody who may or may not have worked a match before and is in there with Shaq on national TV in a sinking angle. I'm pulling for her. They had the best of intentions in getting her over via association with Shaq but it's almost as if it's in spite of this shit now.

Riho is like the perfect barometer of the women's division's strength. She made sense for champ at the start when it was struggling, now should be a contender but perhaps a little on the outside looking in, and if things progress like we hope/think they will, a gatekeeper that can be elevated once in a while.