Unnatural Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Ratings be damned. If politics weren't ruling the majority of the news cycle, if sports and streaming issues weren't pulling viewers away, do the ratings week in week out support the "shit booking" idea? What do weekly ratings show, when you exclude last weeks streaming hiccups and all the political news coverage that was eating up Wednesday evenings? Are ratings dipping, rising, leveling out, keeping steady? Like if people in general keep saying ____ is going to turn away viewers or not doing ___ is risking losing viewers, which has been said about aew before the pandemic and before we had the tnt title right? If that talking point is always getting tossed around, with a years worth of ratings to actually look at, are the doom & gloom sayers hitting the nail on the head as we progress week to week? Legit curious because I mean when Uno ran Dork Order and had his throne of minions i seem to remember reading that such a silly act would drive away fans and definitely wasn't going to bring in new fans.. Then Brodie popped up, and the new doomsaying was that his cheapshots at Vince weren't just petty but would also drive off fans. And running angles on BTE was stupid because tv viewers weren't going to follow a vlog, etc etc. So legit curious a year and change out, have we seen a steady decline of viewers as time went on? Sure tv viewing isn't what it was during the pandemic overall, but did Dynamites numbers trend up or drop? And im not even counting the all important demo, just curious about overall viewers weekly. I wish we had a stats guy who could dissect the numbers and give us some insight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Hayabusa said: Ratings be damned. If politics weren't ruling the majority of the news cycle, if sports and streaming issues weren't pulling viewers away, do the ratings week in week out support the "shit booking" idea? What do weekly ratings show, when you exclude last weeks streaming hiccups and all the political news coverage that was eating up Wednesday evenings? Are ratings dipping, rising, leveling out, keeping steady? Like if people in general keep saying ____ is going to turn away viewers or not doing ___ is risking losing viewers, which has been said about aew before the pandemic and before we had the tnt title right? If that talking point is always getting tossed around, with a years worth of ratings to actually look at, are the doom & gloom sayers hitting the nail on the head as we progress week to week? Legit curious because I mean when Uno ran Dork Order and had his throne of minions i seem to remember reading that such a silly act would drive away fans and definitely wasn't going to bring in new fans.. Then Brodie popped up, and the new doomsaying was that his cheapshots at Vince weren't just petty but would also drive off fans. And running angles on BTE was stupid because tv viewers weren't going to follow a vlog, etc etc. So legit curious a year and change out, have we seen a steady decline of viewers as time went on? Sure tv viewing isn't what it was during the pandemic overall, but did Dynamites numbers trend up or drop? And im not even counting the all important demo, just curious about overall viewers weekly. I wish we had a stats guy who could dissect the numbers and give us some insight I'm not seeing anyone who's being critical or any of the "doomsayers" saying anything about ratings. They're steady. There's clearly an appetite for professional wrestling on a big American TV network that isn't WWE. People are happy to accept a lot of schlock to watch a product they largely enjoy. If you're suggesting the ratings are reason enough to stifle criticism or for people not to express opinions contrary to the prevailing consensus, that'd be silly. So I'm sure that's not what's being expressed here. I also didn't see anyone talking about _____ things turning away viewers. Closest I came was suggesting constant start/stop pushes risks potentially burning a guy with their audience. That's reasonable and I stand by it. My taste being what it is, I maintain that Uno still sucks. And while I like Silver and am keen to see what he might become, I maintain that the Dark order sucks. And I maintain that BTE is personally unwatchable, but thankfully nobody needs to watch it to understand the simple stuff they do on Dynamite. Should the ratings preclude one from having these opinions? Or do we think so much of their audience continuing to stick things out is a full-throated endorsement of everything on this program? I know talking about things we dislike about AEW is generally discouraged and the rookie smark booker deserves a grace period of at least 5-10 years before we're really allowed to criticize trends in his booking, so really it's my mistake for complaining. I'll consider sticking to bland praise about Britt Baker's improvement while you wait on your stats guy to explain why the ratings prove Dark Order is good and Adam Page's push is flawless and that I should love it. Edited February 5, 2021 by Andy in Kansas clown football pirate 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnatural Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Buddy i didn't say anything about stifling criticism, keep on blastingthe writing. All the criticism about booking seems to have the same logic as the rest - They're doing ___ wrong and thats gonna cost them viewers. They're not doing ____ and thats gonna cost them viewers. So my question, I feel its fair to ask since the doomsayers keep ending their criticism with the same "losing viewers" logic is this: Have they actually lost viewers like folks kept predicting? critique away for as long as you want, it's fine. I'm just curious about the "losing viewers" talking point and if they've been bleeding viewers or not. Bleeding viewers away and criticizing the show aren't tied to each other i wouldn't imagine. Because while there's plenty criticism thrown at them from the start, i could be wrong but I don't see the fans disappearing en masse like the critics might have us think they are. Could be wrong though, which is why I'm curious about the ratings trends. about the gloomy forecasts, This should help refresh, even if I'm completely paraphrasing the seers but here goes: AEW said they'd be more sports presentation oriented , this wrestlecrap (of the week) is going to drive away the fans Month three or four into pandemic: AEW is in a holding pattern waiting for fans to return, if they keep it up then = bleeding viewers away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 14 minutes ago, Hayabusa said: Buddy i didn't say anything about stifling criticism, keep on blastingthe writing. All the criticism about booking seems to have the same logic as the rest - They're doing ___ wrong and thats gonna cost them viewers. They're not doing ____ and thats gonna cost them viewers. My mistake for responding. I thought you were talking to me for moment. I was clearly mistaken. Hope the person who’s been saying these crazy things shows up to speak to their paraphrased beliefs. I’d like to see that conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordi the former AEW fan Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just generally speaking, I'd prefer AEW to keep moving stories along too slowly rather than hot-shotting everything. I'd prefer them to keep using their hot acts too little rather than shoving every hot act down our throats. Obviously "Doing just the right amount of everything" is what you should shoot for, but if we can accept that that is a moving target that is hard to bullseye every time, then I strongly feel AEW is erring on the right side of the "doing too little" vs "Doing too much" continuum. Agreed that there is room for improvement. There always is and always will be and there's nothing at all wrong with pointing that out. However, for me personally, I am happy that AEW keeps taking their time with things, because I now how much I dislike the way that certain pro wrestling companies during certain eras could foolishly rush things and way overdo things. As I said, going too far in the other direction is preferable to me. And, obviously, they are holding a lot of stuff back until it can happen in front of a live audience. For me, given the obvious limitations of the current situation they've been doing a good job of producing constantly entertaining shows that I look forward to every week. It goes without saying that it is cool with me if someone else posting here (like, say @Andy in Kansasor @Goodear) wants more from their weekly pro wrestling show than what AEW is currently providing. For me, though. I can clearly remember a recent time when there was no weekly pro wrestling show that I found consistently entertaining and looked forward to. I suppose that makes me an easy mark for AEW, because I am more than satisfied to have that right now. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 16 hours ago, The Natural said: Meant to say the following sooner. Justin Roberts sucks as a ring announcer. Bring in Tony Chimel. You know who is actually a very good ring announcer, already works for the company, and isn't that great at most anything else on screen? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoeCristyV.1.6 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Eden Styles! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Anyway, Rey Fenix is so fucking incredible. But it's also really noticable how much crisper he looks, and how much higher of a percentage of his stuff hits when he's in the ring with guys like Kenny or even Anderson. Guys who have great timing and are always in the right place. I'm convinced he's going to destroy himself doing that flip over the top into the barricade spot. I see I'm in a distinct minority, both here and on the internet at large, but I really enjoyed the wedding. Miro is a big dumb heel who was so excited to humiliate his rival that he didn't stop to consider he was putting Chuck right into place to ruin the wedding. Simple payoff to the story (though I wish there had been more of Miro making Chuck do shit before at got here.) Thunder Rosa and Baker was fantastic. This is two weeks in a row we've had a great singles match in the midcard and a great out of control multi-man tag in the main event and damn do I love it. Archer/Kingston was okay, but nowhere near as fun as last week. Lumberjack matches aren't my bag. Battle royal was... A battle royal. AEW have done some really good battle royals, but this one didn't do a whole lot for me. I am absolutely in love with the Inner Circle/MJF thing, even if I kinda feel like MJF has stolen what should've been Sammy's spot, to eventually turn the group on Jericho. But Sammy should be a great babyface. And Bucks vs MJF and Jericho will be good, because, well, MJF is a great character and the Bucks are the Bucks. I'm wondering if we are building to FTR vs Boy/Dinosaur, or a six man with FTR and Tully vs Jurassic Express. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Oh, and it's hilarious that the Shaq match is going to be on regular weekly tv because the NBA decided to run the canceled All Star game on the day of the PPV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Brian Fowler said: You know who is actually a very good ring announcer, already works for the company, and isn't that great at most anything else on screen? I agree, Dasha Fuentes is a good ring announcer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StretchMediatedHypertrophy Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 6 hours ago, El Gran Gordi said: Just generally speaking, I'd prefer AEW to keep moving stories along too slowly rather than hot-shotting everything. I'd prefer them to keep using their hot acts too little rather than shoving every hot act down our throats. Obviously "Doing just the right amount of everything" is what you should shoot for, but if we can accept that that is a moving target that is hard to bullseye every time, then I strongly feel AEW is erring on the right side of the "doing too little" vs "Doing too much" continuum. Agreed that there is room for improvement. There always is and always will be and there's nothing at all wrong with pointing that out. However, for me personally, I am happy that AEW keeps taking their time with things, because I now how much I dislike the way that certain pro wrestling companies during certain eras could foolishly rush things and way overdo things. As I said, going too far in the other direction is preferable to me. And, obviously, they are holding a lot of stuff back until it can happen in front of a live audience. For me, given the obvious limitations of the current situation they've been doing a good job of producing constantly entertaining shows that I look forward to every week. It goes without saying that it is cool with me if someone else posting here (like, say @Andy in Kansasor @Goodear) wants more from their weekly pro wrestling show than what AEW is currently providing. For me, though. I can clearly remember a recent time when there was no weekly pro wrestling show that I found consistently entertaining and looked forward to. I suppose that makes me an easy mark for AEW, because I am more than satisfied to have that right now. This is my view too, though I have some sympathy with the notion that the Allin/Sting drag-out has been a bit much. and the stuff with the Inner Circle is just a bit too much of a plot coupon (MacGuffin)...maybe that's not quite the right way of putting it. But what's really MJF's plan here in taking apart the Inner Circle? To have a stable with Hager, Santana & Ortiz? To be in a tag-team with Jericho? To get one over on Guerrera? Why wouldn't he want to go after Derby Allin? It doesn't feel right to me. And it does feel like a bit of a waste of P&P. All in all, there's just a huge roster and I think they do an admirable job of managing that - but I can see why certain things could aggrevate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 It probably doesn't help that they ended up needing to move Revolution back a bit, giving them extra time to fill before the ppv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 This discussion always seems to end up on ‘AEW is better than WWE so shut up’ when no one is bringing up WWE. I still don’t watch WWE other than Roman Reigns segments on YouTube. I also don’t talk about ratings because my attitude is and has always been I don’t care if it’s popular, I only care if I like it. I had a question about if a alliance with New Japan would grow their audience because adding another bunch of guys to their roster seems like a recipe for more of what Andy is talking about. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_K Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, Goodear said: This discussion always seems to end up on ‘AEW is better than WWE so shut up’ when no one is bringing up WWE. I still don’t watch WWE other than Roman Reigns segments on YouTube. I also don’t talk about ratings because my attitude is and has always been I don’t care if it’s popular, I only care if I like it. I had a question about if a alliance with New Japan would grow their audience because adding another bunch of guys to their roster seems like a recipe for more of what Andy is talking about. Agreed. However I think the NJPW will grow their audience, certainly if executed right. They should probably just cool the Impact links however and focus on that, lest it become too confusing for general viewer. RE: criticisms of the show — there are too many voices weighing in on the same segments for there to be smoke without fire. Equally there are other parts of the show nigh on universally praised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StretchMediatedHypertrophy Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Brian Fowler said: It probably doesn't help that they ended up needing to move Revolution back a bit, giving them extra time to fill before the ppv Yeah, and I mean generally AEW has I think coped pretty well with COVID - but it ain't ever gonna be how it would have been. Clearly there is a reticence to give away certain things - Blood and Guts never happening was an obvious example of that, but obviously one can easily infer that they be taking things more slowly than they otherwise would. Edited February 5, 2021 by RunningFromAmerica 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnatural Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 14 hours ago, Andy in Kansas said: As for this booking year to year thing, it's fine in a broad sense. But if they're padding some things out too long because they think in years, it will have an adverse effect on the weekly television product. Okay, so this isn't you then? Coolio Guess I confused you for someone else who was telling us that the show would tank before long 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 You’re reading into his statement that it will effect the money the show makes when he may be talking about the quality of the show itself. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Regarding Jungle Boy’s use this week, they could have continued his push by having him be the last one to go out in the tag battle Royal rather than the 6th to last behind Max Caster and Top Flight #1. Have FTR screw him or something rather than MJF just dump him cold. You’re throwing cold water on the hot act when you could progress the angle people got a reason to care about last week. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnatural Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Goodear, I think ultimately that's what it boils down to though, affecting the product affects the viewership. quality of the product = more or less viewers, and if the product stinks the fans aren't gonna stick around in the same numbers. aew doesn't have the lemmings to stick it out. just last week there were all those streaming issues right, and the audience checked out and switched the channel. so i think we've seen let the audience have a bone to pick with streaming or watching live, issues with the signals feed, and they'll bounce on out. i mean let a guy nitpick every thing they like, nothing against that. he actually lays out a well thought out process behind the critiques and i'll honestly take ten pages of newbury burying a show over just one page of picture/gif/tweet triple post spam posts. like with newbury he'll give you a cohesive narrative on the Why something sucks as opposed to spamming pictures and gifs back to back for likes, so i'm team newbury on this one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StretchMediatedHypertrophy Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, Goodear said: Have FTR screw him or something rather than MJF just dump him cold. You’re throwing cold water on the hot act when you could progress the angle people got a reason to care about last week. I can see the logic behind that, but I think that's where AEW is still somewhat a sports-based product where not absolutely everything that happens is tied to the 1 storyline the guy's involved in right now and things are just a bit more chaotic. Jungle Boy vs MJF is a background program. Seeds are being planted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Brian Fowler said: Oh, and it's hilarious that the Shaq match is going to be on regular weekly tv because the NBA decided to run the canceled All Star game on the day of the PPV. Wouldn't TNT want the Shaq match to be on TNT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoeCristyV.1.6 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I just realized why it is called Dynamite..... Just never made the connection... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikoBaltimore Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 13 hours ago, Andy in Kansas said: I know talking about things we dislike about AEW is generally discouraged and the rookie smark booker deserves a grace period of at least 5-10 years before we're really allowed to criticize trends in his booking, so really it's my mistake for complaining. I'll consider sticking to bland praise about Britt Baker's improvement while you wait on your stats guy to explain why the ratings prove Dark Order is good and Adam Page's push is flawless and that I should love it. I like to think that part of it could be that some just want AEW to succeed so much that sometimes some criticisms accidentally get disregarded. But instead of generalizing about how we are I'll only speak for myself on this. I consider myself quite the AEW die-hard and for most of its existence I tried to counter anything negative with lots of "Yeah, but..." Didn't mean to, was just something that happened. And yes that includes when talking about Brandi's stories (yeah, I know) But I kind of have to credit @Goodearfor snapping me out of that reactionary mindset and instead think "You know, he has a point" especially when he did Scouting Report. Yeah, some of what he said stung but there were valid points which made for a good read. So as it pertains to criticisms I'm of the mindset that as long as it's not a bunch of "____sucks" in a trolling manner then by all means go for it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Goodear said: Regarding Jungle Boy’s use this week, they could have continued his push by having him be the last one to go out in the tag battle Royal rather than the 6th to last behind Max Caster and Top Flight #1. Have FTR screw him or something rather than MJF just dump him cold. You’re throwing cold water on the hot act when you could progress the angle people got a reason to care about last week. FTR are suspended. And I'm pretty sure the match from last week was the blow-off to that mini feud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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