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AEW Dynamite - 2/3/2021


Dolfan in NYC

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@Technico Supportbrought up Thunder Rosa's SHOCKED KICKOUT FACE in the Tropes thread and man, that said it all for me. Even in a good match there was something like that last night.

- The Good Brothers do absolutely nothing for me and could have easily been left out of the main; when they were on the floor everything tightened up. Then KENTA had the least enthusiastic run-in ever.

- The wedding was fun enough (James Mitchell!) but the cake fall botched. And really, it's Kip and Penelope and the Best Friends, big deal.

- The tag royale was a total cluster. 

- The lumberjack match had Archer back in non-killer mode. 

and I didn't care a bit about Sting, Hangman and Hardy, Jade Cargill. ?‍♂️ I'm glad everyone else is enjoying it, though. 

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52 minutes ago, Pete said:

Best high school graduation photo EVER!

For real, I would hang a poster of this in a heartbeat.  I mean it's fine enough as my current phone background but man is that unbelievably glorious.

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14 hours ago, Jiji said:

They ain't running champ vs. champ Golden Lovers match without full crowds anyway. If it happens, it's late 2021. Sorry Hangmin, GET TO DA BACK O' DA LINE!

Almost an entire year of weak world title booking and slow-walking Hangman's push for Kenny's pretentious ass sounds like a hell world. But it'll probably be just what Tony needs to be crowned 2021 best booker. 

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Wow. That was a really fun show!

Fenix has some perfect kicks. Loved the Main. Wish KENTA would have STUCK that G2S a bit better, but this is really cool seeing all these promotions working together.

Even the wedding was cool aside from the cake botch.

Good stuff. Wish Eddie won more.

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Loved that post show KENTA-Omega segment.  Omega heel hilarity.

Let's see.  Liked the opening battle royal - which was a surprise.  This one compared to every weak battle royal they've done felt well put together.  Dug that Isaiah Kassidy bellflop.  The eliminations and featured spots all seemed to work here.  I'm not sold the Bucks-MJF/Jericho is a match I need to see.  Tho, seeing how the Bucks are pulling matches out of everybody these days I'll prepare to be surprised.  

Wedding bit seemed awful, but I watch on tape delay so the FFWD saved me any frustration.  Great to see the Sinister Minister.  Loved his ECW run with Tajiri and Whipwreck.  Do you guys remember how incredible that team was?  And especially their matches with the FBI?  I just hope AEW isn't patting themselves on the back for this nonsense and pretending it was a success.  Even if it does pop a rating, let's hope not, and here's hoping NXT killed them on the counter programming to that.      

Always happy to see the Hangman.  Chaos Project have found their place.  Matt Hardy is exponentially better as a heel than a babyface.  Digging this Big Money Matt.  

Dr. Baker has to be amongst the greatest pro wrestling turnarounds in recent history.  She got the character going really well almost immediately, but now she's putting some in ring skills to work.  Also, that Starks 'Waiting Room' segment this week was super fun.  Anyway, really liked this match with Rosa until the stoopid finish.  As good as AEW has been they've long needed to make some serious improvements with how they let their refs look like imbeciles.  Too bad on the exposed steel botch.  But all that aside, solid match.  

The main up till that first break had me feeling underwhelmed, but after the break all hell broke loose.  When Fenix is on, which he most often is, he's as exciting to watch as anybody in wrestling 2021.  They all looked good here.  Sorta new to the Good Bros, but they've been awesome since arriving.  The KENTA run in was so exciting.  And obviously more so for the NJPW relationship than the actual angle.  Yeah, the future is bright. 

Obviously I'm getting way ahead here, but what I'm hoping for isn't any particular dream match, but rather AEW/TNT joining forces with NJPW and taking over that pitiful NJPWworld app and making the NJPW archive more easily accessible with a cleaner set-up, better search engine, and the many many ways you could collect all the great matches and package them together.  But I'm also excited by the possibility of 'Big Tom' Ishii (as the late great wrestling writer Larry Csonka always refered to him as) in an AEW ring.    

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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Gotta say, as exciting as it is to see them working with other promotions, this company has become masterful at stalling people's momentum for no good reason. 

Darby Allin's a guy who got over with his crazy physicality and physical charisma and his never-say-die style in the ring. So of course he wins his belt on November 7th, what's essentially a TV title no less, and he's wrestled three times on TV since then. I guess making him the guy who stands next to Sting is supposed to elevate him or make him more appealing. All it does is make me stare at my phone till these repetitive segments are over. And of course he's finally wrestling again next week but it's against Janela, so I guess the lesson is to be careful what you wish for.

Similarly, Adam Page has done sweet nothing since losing to Omega on November 7th. He's having competent matches palling around with lower card goofs and getting suckered into tag match with Matt Hardy and job guys. At least that was a dominant performance for Page. But this sad-sack mope is running in place when a year ago he was the most exciting thing in the company. I see a lot of people say you can't really step on the gas with him till the pandemic is starting to get in the rearview mirror and you can have proper crowds. I call bollocks on that. If you can hotshot FTR-Bucks during a pandemic, you can certainly find something worthy of your future #1 guy's time. There isn't a single match this company is explicitly building with Page that anybody should have any excitement to see. It's disgraceful. 

And then we have Jericho and MJF challenging the Bucks for the tag belts at Revolution. I guess that means Sammy Guevara gets to sit around and twiddle his thumbs waiting for either of the matches he ought to be having while this interminable MJF-Inner Circle story meanders along.

Cody's momentum has also stalled from the heights where he was in the most interesting stuff in the promotion. But so many of those wounds are likely self-inflicted that I won't cry too much for him. At least they know better than to ask people to pay money to see the Shaq match. Even for a promotion with an audience as forgiving as theirs, that might have been a bridge too far.

We were all so excited for Archer and Miro to be brought into the fold, but both have serious Just Another Guy energy right now. 

Looking at trend of this promotion over the last few months, I'm doing my best not to get excited about them doing anything with Jungle Boy

So I guess we have to cling to the promise of cool interpromotional stuff, because Tony's doing a great job squandering all the toys he already has. Hey, look, it's KENTA! Pay no attention to how dull so much of this other stuff has become!

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9 minutes ago, Andy in Kansas said:

Gotta say, as exciting as it is to see them working with other promotions, this company has become masterful at stalling people's momentum for no good reason. 

Darby Allin's a guy who got over with his crazy physicality and physical charisma and his never-say-die style in the ring. So of course he wins his belt on November 7th, what's essentially a TV title no less, and he's wrestled three times on TV since then. I guess making him the guy who stands next to Sting is supposed to elevate him or make him more appealing. All it does is make me stare at my phone till these repetitive segments are over. And of course he's finally wrestling again next week but it's against Janela, so I guess the lesson is to be careful what you wish for.

Similarly, Adam Page has done sweet nothing since losing to Omega on November 7th. He's having competent matches palling around with lower card goofs and getting suckered into tag match with Matt Hardy and job guys. At least that was a dominant performance for Page. But this sad-sack mope is running in place when a year ago he was the most exciting thing in the company. I see a lot of people say you can't really step on the gas with him till the pandemic is starting to get in the rearview mirror and you can have proper crowds. I call bollocks on that. If you can hotshot FTR-Bucks during a pandemic, you can certainly find something worthy of your future #1 guy's time. There isn't a single match this company is explicitly building with Page that anybody should have any excitement to see. It's disgraceful. 

And then we have Jericho and MJF challenging the Bucks for the tag belts at Revolution. I guess that means Sammy Guevara gets to sit around and twiddle his thumbs waiting for either of the matches he ought to be having while this interminable MJF-Inner Circle story meanders along.

Cody's momentum has also stalled from the heights where he was in the most interesting stuff in the promotion. But so many of those wounds are likely self-inflicted that I won't cry too much for him. At least they know better than to ask people to pay money to see the Shaq match. Even for a promotion with an audience as forgiving as theirs, that might have been a bridge too far.

We were all so excited for Archer and Miro to be brought into the fold, but both have serious Just Another Guy energy right now. 

Looking at trend of this promotion over the last few months, I'm doing my best not to get excited about them doing anything with Jungle Boy

So I guess we have to cling to the promise of cool interpromotional stuff, because Tony's doing a great job squandering all the toys he already has. Hey, look, it's KENTA! Pay no attention to how dull so much of this other stuff has become!

A bit harsh considering how fun the shows have been, but I can't help but agree with much of this.  I think Archer is a good 'big' hand and I like what they've done with him.  I remember reading some news bit about Miro loving whatever his cuck angle was with Lashley and that he loves wrestling weddings, and I wonder if he had a creative role in all this.  Tho, I could be wrong and I agree that whatever they are doing with him is fucking lame.  

You're completely right on Sammy and the Hangman.  And I too hope Jungle Boy isn't the next in line to be stalled.  But I will say that I'd rather these stalls than a sudden burial or dropping of a push that I got used to in the last of the WWE I ever watched.  I don't think Sammy or Hangman will be hurt by this current booking.  

I didn't feel the same sentiments that everybody seemed to feel for Sting's debut and I too got bored real fast.  But the last couple weeks I'm kinda into Stinger's quips.  And I'm sorta looking forward to seeing whatever they do with this street fight.  But you're spot on with Darby holding the TV title and barely working.  And now Janela.  Tho, this does indicate Joey's playing heel next week and that's a huge shift for his natural heel act.  Tho, preferably he'd just be the mouthpiece for a new charge, but I've already pointed to that ad nauseum.  

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19 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

A bit harsh considering how fun the shows have been, but I can't help but agree with much of this.  

The shows can be fun and targets for harsh truths at the same time. I largely enjoy Dynamite, but that feeling of running in place has really made the shows feel less vital. And Tony's booking definitely strikes me as the work of someone who confuses dragging things out with long-term storytelling. 

19 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

You're completely right on Sammy and the Hangman.  And I too hope Jungle Boy isn't the next in line to be stalled.  But I will say that I'd rather these stalls than a sudden burial or dropping of a push that I got used to in the last of the WWE I ever watched.  I don't think Sammy or Hangman will be hurt by this current booking.  

I couldn't say who will or won't be hurt, just that it's dull. The Sammy face run hasn't kicked off in earnest yet, so he should be in reasonably good shape once that gets going and people get into the novelty. But the process of getting somewhere we're all pretty sure we're going is a snooze. 

Page, who knows. Getting someone hot then cooling them down and trying get him hot again is questionable practice in the best of times. Cooling him all the way down to sad drunk getting stung along by Matt Hardy for even a week? How many ways do these dingdongs need to try and reinvent a perfectly good wheel? 

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32 minutes ago, Andy in Kansas said:

And Tony's booking definitely strikes me as the work of someone who confuses dragging things out with long-term storytelling. 

Right on the money.  Not to take away from the valid criticism, but I do give him the benefit of the doubt considering he's a year and a half in.  I think over time we'll see if he's able to learn and progress or be another bubble dweller enjoying the smell of his own shit.  I have faith he's learning.  That said, I do feel like they're failing miserably to see how they're making their referees look like idiots over blatant heel cheating.

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I couldn't say who will or won't be hurt, just that it's dull. The Sammy face run hasn't kicked off in earnest yet, so he should be in reasonably good shape once that gets going and people get into the novelty. But the process of getting somewhere we're all pretty sure we're going is a snooze. 

Yeah, that's completely true.  

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Page, who knows. Getting someone hot then cooling them down and trying get him hot again is questionable practice in the best of times. Cooling him all the way down to sad drunk getting stung along by Matt Hardy for even a week? How many ways do these dingdongs need to try and reinvent a perfectly good wheel? 

I think we were both on the same Page, no pun intended, early, when they first started making him emo (which seemed to be welcomed by most), and it hasn't really stopped.  But Page is such an incredible performer that I have no doubt this stalling, as rightfully suggested, will affect him in the long run.  I suspect a solid killing of Big Money Matt is on the way. 

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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I still think you guys have been so abused by WWE "storytelling" or even TNA "storytelling" and how those companies used wrestlers that it's clouded your view on better ways to book wrestlers. Tony Khan said multiple times that not everyone is going to be used all the time. They also book year to year or more than that unless curveballs are thrown their way (Covid, Brodie's death, etc.). People get so used to the thought that someone becomes a JAG unless they're constantly on TV or getting pushed.

Basically, if someone isn't getting used in a substantial way at the moment, it doesn't mean that's how they're always going to be used. I was thinking the other day about how Scorp has been relegated to Dark when he was a fixture of Dynamite for a little while. That was his time, that time ended, he's out of the rotation and other people filled that spot, and I'm fairly confident that he'll be worked back into the rotation again sooner or later. It's either that, or you can get used as a jobber or JTTS like Janela. I'd much rather see someone good bide their time working Dark or picking up wins here or there on Dynamite instead of being the token guy to drop a fall to Mox or Kenny or Darby or whoever.

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1 hour ago, Craig H said:

I still think you guys have been so abused by WWE "storytelling" or even TNA "storytelling" and how those companies used wrestlers that it's clouded your view on better ways to book wrestlers.

When I express a desire to see tired 50-50 booking or Feast or Fired matches or promos at the start of every show to set up dull main events that'll end in pointless DQs, feel free to use this one on me. I like to think I'm capable of holding a critical opinion of Tony Kahn's competence or lack thereof without comparing him to anyone else. 

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Tony Khan said multiple times that not everyone is going to be used all the time. They also book year to year or more than that unless curveballs are thrown their way (Covid, Brodie's death, etc.). People get so used to the thought that someone becomes a JAG unless they're constantly on TV or getting pushed.

That doesn't excuse barely using people at all. If a company can go from May to late January without properly showcasing on Dynamite a guy they allegedly see as a real prospect like Jungle Boy, then the booking philosophy behind that kind of choice amounts to gross negligence. Unless the message is meant to be that Tony doesn't see him as a star and isn't interested in treating him as such. In which case he should carry on doing what he's doing and maybe give Jungle Boy another proper singles showcase in August or somewhere around then. 

As for this booking year to year thing, it's fine in a broad sense. But if they're padding some things out too long because they think in years, it will have an adverse effect on the weekly television product. 

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Basically, if someone isn't getting used in a substantial way at the moment, it doesn't mean that's how they're always going to be used.

You're correct, what is now is not necessarily forever. It's entirely possible down the road someone smartens up and actually gives some of these performers a chance to get over. In the meantime, it seems they're happy to squander perhaps some of the best years for these guys to develop by tucking them away in nothing matches on Dark that will be seen by a fraction of their US television audience. Or in other cases, they're happy to keep people in an aimless holding pattern on their main show. 

Maybe Tony Kahn is just smarter than me and giving their big project Adam Page nothing of value for going on three months will payoff. I'm sure when he actually gets to do something worthwhile, we'll all be tickled pink by the novelty of actual forward momentum. But for the time being, it's hard to get excited about Page as a solid guy with not a lot going on. This dull mope who feels unworthy of love is certainly proving himself right, as his booking is getting no love from me. Give me something to sink my teeth into. An issue that will build to a match I want to see. That's all I ask. 

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I was thinking the other day about how Scorp has been relegated to Dark when he was a fixture of Dynamite for a little while. That was his time, that time ended, he's out of the rotation and other people filled that spot, and I'm fairly confident that he'll be worked back into the rotation again sooner or later. It's either that, or you can get used as a jobber or JTTS like Janela. I'd much rather see someone good bide their time working Dark or picking up wins here or there on Dynamite instead of being the token guy to drop a fall to Mox or Kenny or Darby or whoever.

I've got news: Scorpio is a JTTS. He's a veteran gatekeeper, and the company he keeps has helped to solidify him as such. His chances of really breaking through on this roster are next to nil, especially with the backlog of promising young talent they have waiting patiently in a line that isn't moving very fast. If they'd like to hide him away on Dark where most of their audience won't see him and pretend he's something more and pad his W-L record, that's certainly their prerogative. But I'd prefer him on TV, where at least he can do what Janela can't and make some actual stars look good. He's a guy that slots in as a single on this roster at about the same place as Dustin Rhodes. And there's nothing wrong with that. 

Of course Sky clearly isn't among my main concerns. My point remains, if someone has something you value, put them on TV consistently and ride them and shine them up properly and see what sticks. This starting and stopping stuff is no way to build momentum and a good way to potentially burn a guy with your audience. And this concept of hiding people on Dark who stand a chance of being properly over is for the birds.

I do wonder how much a second TV show would alleviate some of my qualms. I think an extra hour or two frees up space to solve the Jungle Boy problem. But the Adam Page stuff reflects choices they've decided to make consistently on their A-show. Same with what they've got going on with Darby. And that doesn't fill me with confidence. 

Edited by Andy in Kansas
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17 minutes ago, AxB said:

Can someone summarize Andy's post for me? I'm not reading all that.

tl;dr: Don't hide worthwhile wrestlers on Dark for weeks at a time, stop treading water with Adam Page, don't start/stop pushes on people you intend to be stars, don't insinuate my feelings about Tony's shit booking are a result of me being "absued" by other bookers you deem to be shit. With a helping of "Scorpio Sky isn't worth protecting" thrown in because his name came up. 

I think that was the gist.

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Also, and I'm going to try to say this as non-Cibernetico-ly as possible, Penelope Ford is stunning on a normal day. During the wedding segment she was breathtaking, if you're into that sort of thing. It's amazing the difference having a makeup department that wants the ladies to look good on tv makes. 

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I think we can call out flaws and lulls in the current booking without calling it "shit". We all know what shit booking looks like. AEW's newbie booker fucking up some trigger-pulls because there's no crowd to read? Not ideal. Occasionally bad. Shit? The history of this industry's shit is too well catalogued and too well remembered to have Adam Page's push taking too long neck-and-neck with John Cena squashing an entire stable of horror movie monsters in GLOW or whatever.

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3 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

I think we can call out flaws and lulls in the current booking without calling it "shit". We all know what shit booking looks like. AEW's newbie booker fucking up some trigger-pulls because there's no crowd to read? Not ideal. Occasionally bad. Shit? The history of this industry's shit is too well catalogued and too well remembered to have Adam Page's push taking too long neck-and-neck with John Cena squashing an entire stable of horror movie monsters in GLOW or whatever.

"Shit" only made it into my tl'dr on account of my trying to lazily summarize. Word isn't used in any of my other posts. On the scale you're suggesting, clearly not to the best word to accurately convey my meaning. So point taken while I stand by all of my points. 

We're clearly in "When are they going to get to the fireworks factory?" territory here, not "Why is Triple H fuckin' that corpse's brains out?"

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