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FEBRUARY 2021 Discussion of Wrestling


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RAW did pretty well with the key demos last night.   i'd like to credit Lashley and the hurt business but it could be Bad Bunny too or PPV bump or a combination.  Mind you..  the actual total viewers is not great but when you are #1 #2 and #3 across cable for the three hours i'm assuming they will be pleased with that. 

Lastly on Bad Bunny.. he has music videos on YouTube over 500M views..  some more than that.  Huge numbers. 

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If you really, really pressed me, I'd probably tell you that my favorite thing out of WWE over the last six years or so (so we're talking after the year of Shield Six-Man Tags) is Steph and Triple H touring Axxess and goofing around with it being filmed on a smartphone. I don't take any great pride in this, but there you go.

So A&E is going to be doing biographies and a show with this premise:

Quote

"WWE’s Most Wanted Treasures” takes viewers on a journey to find some of WWE’s most iconic, lost memorabilia. In each of the nine episodes, WWE’s Stephanie McMahon and Paul “Triple H” Levesque lead a team of collectors, WWE Superstars and Legends as they investigate, negotiate, bid and travel across the country to hunt down and reclaim some of the most elusive WWE collectibles. Throughout history, WWE’s action-packed storylines have spawned iconic, one-of-a-kind memorabilia, most of which have gone missing. Superstar in training, AJ Francis will head out on the road alongside some of the most famous WWE Legends of all time including The Undertaker, Ric Flair, Charlotte Flair, Mick Foley, Kane, Big Show, Mark Henry, Jerry “The King” Lawler, Booker T, Greg “The Hammer” Valentine, Brutus “The Barber” Beefcake, Jake “The Snake” Roberts and Sgt. Slaughter. The series will unearth these rare items in the hopes of preserving and sharing the legacy behind the memorable moments in WWE history.

I'm sure they're going to squeeze all of the genuine earnestness out of it with over production but on paper I'm all for this.

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2 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

The eight A&E WWE Legends Biographies are gonna be Savage, Austin, Piper, Warrior, Foley, Booker, Bret, Michaels. There's a minute-long commercial out there for it that a friend posted on Facebook but I can't peel it off to put on here.

 

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1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

The eight A&E WWE Legends Biographies are gonna be Savage, Austin, Piper, Warrior, Foley, Booker, Bret, Michaels. There's a minute-long commercial out there for it that a friend posted on Facebook but I can't peel it off to put on here.

Bret Michaels!

bret michaels- poison | Bret michaels poison, Bret michaels, Bret michaels  band

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1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

The eight A&E WWE Legends Biographies are gonna be Savage, Austin, Piper, Warrior, Foley, Booker, Bret, Michaels. There's a minute-long commercial out there for it that a friend posted on Facebook but I can't peel it off to put on here.

Is this kinda WWEs Answer to Dark Side of the Ring? It should be nice like the ones they did on the Biography channel way back in the Attitude.

I was thinking about how far behind the times WWE is culturally but considering how Stephanie and Shane both are or were big hip hop fans, it's surprising they didn't try to do more with culturally relevant hip hop artists coming up through the years. Snoop is a huge wrestling fan and he's been involved alot for over a decade now but it would've been nice if they had someone of that level around alot earlier. 

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11 hours ago, AxB said:

Tony Khan talking about us:

 

Yeah, it's kind of hard to think poorly of anyone who has strong positive feelings about Lonce vs the World.

Alvarez is just baffling thinking, in 2021, that Kurt Angle was better than Mark Henry, mind you.

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2 hours ago, Matt D said:

Yeah, it's kind of hard to think poorly of anyone who has strong positive feelings about Lonce vs the World.

Alvarez is just baffling thinking, in 2021, that Kurt Angle was better than Mark Henry, mind you.

What really matters is whether anyone ever told Dustin Rhodes about the 'matches better than anything by HHH' list.

 

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Actually, one more grievance.

When Khan mentions that out of the LvtW treads and Gibson getting beaten, he made a thread about which tag team partner was better within the tag team, and Alvarez says "What? You were saying Neidhart might have been better with Bret?" and Khan comes back, slightly mollified, with Strike Force instead...

One of the biggest elements of this place over the years is that there's practically no idea that can't be raised, no matter how much it pushes against dogma, so long as you back your shit up and make a case for it. If you do a bad job backing it up, you'll probably be mocked or doubted, but if you make an earnest attempt 80% of the people here will at least appreciate your attempt and engage with you.

I'm a huge Bret fan. That said, if you actually watch the matches, especially in context, the Hart Foundation has problems as a team, some of which stem from the 80s WWF Heel-in-Peril house style. Moreover, if you actually watch the matches, you see that Neidhart brought quite a bit to the table in those matches and I think someone could easily make an argument that he brought as much as Bret, if not more so. I'm not sure I'd go out of my way to make the argument, but it's not a crazy argument if you actually watch the footage and don't just rely on either memories or the evidence of Bret's later singles career vs Neidhart's 90s work. It's certainly not an argument to be dismissed with a mocking laugh.

Edited by Matt D
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I agree also.

And this is the thing, whilst we may have consider Kurt Angle overrated (and I don't really think there's anybody here who denies his natural aptitude/potential) and we might occasionally point out elephants in the room (Curt Hennig didn't have many great matches in WWE, the Hart Foundation one above), we didn't generally big up the hosses at the expense of the technical workers. Similarly, I remember when someone made the argument that Demolition were a better team than the Road Warriors - they weren't trying to claim that the Road Warriors were overrated.

I did once consider writing a tongue-in-cheek defence of Bastian Booger, but then I watched his matches and decided I actually quite liked his work in that role. He certainly did a better leg drop than Nia Jax.

 

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Holy shit...I agree with this too. I honestly didn't even remember this or think about this until right now, but I was always more impressed by Neidhart and thought he was the cooler of him and Bret. When Bret broke off for a singles run, I never thought he was any good at first because he was getting punked out by Bad News Brown and shit. I never thought that The Anvil would have gotten beaten up like that.

BTW, at the start of that interview, TK says that he chatted with Mike Sempervieve on here. Anyone have any idea who Mike was? And if Coach Tony K wasn't Tony Khan and it's just a weird coincidence then I don't know what to think anymore.

Edited by Craig H
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The way I see it, there are two different elements to what we generally do as a community.

1. We rewatch the footage, watch it in context, watch the matches that were often skipped over due to the necessity of "comp tapes", or watch new footage which wasn't previously available.

2. We recontextualize the footage by examining elements that were not previously as valued in in the traditional workrate-driven culture.

Sometimes we do that and discover that what everyone thought basically holds up. Sometimes we discover things hold up but there were other positive things that hadn't been appreciated. Sometimes we discover that things don't actually hold up or there are negative elements that were swept under the rug or even not seen as negative previously. Sometimes we decide that the emperor actually had no clothes. And we present these thoughts and people can dig in and retort them.

I welcome people to challenge me on Brody, and I've gone and found qualifications and specific matches that I think do challenge my arguments and I point to them as the exceptions that sort of make the rule. When I am so lucky to be given a brand new Nick Bockwinkel match, I come into it a little worried that this is the match that's going to destroy my entire theory of him as the best wrestler ever, and I come out of it relieved that it wasn't.

And of course, it's all subjective, so sometimes half the posters can think one thing and half can think the other and we just agree to disagree after going around in circles for a while.

All of this is ok. The only thing that's not okay is to say that we can't possible understand something because we're not a wrestler or because we weren't in the crowd thirty-five years ago or that we're just being trolls, unless, of course, someone's not willing to back their stuff up.

Edited by Matt D
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I know that isn't the intended purpose of Young Rock but from the first 2 shows,  the narrative that Tony Atlas was the asshole of the tag team isn't holding any water.   

I did love how Rocky is briefly trying to explain the business to a girl to impress her and like "what are you talking about".  I mean 1987 Dwayne acting like the Twitter meme of the guy yelling at the hot girl about something serious that she is bored about is funny

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Holy shit...I agree with this too. I honestly didn't even remember this or think about this until right now, but I was always more impressed by Neidhart and thought he was the cooler of him and Bret. When Bret broke off for a singles run, I never thought he was any good at first because he was getting punked out by Bad News Brown and shit. I never thought that The Anvil would have gotten beaten up like that.

BTW, at the start of that interview, TK says that he chatted with Mike Sempervieve on here. Anyone have any idea who Mike was? And if Coach Tony K wasn't Tony Khan and it's just a weird coincidence then I don't know what to think anymore.

Mike posted under his own name, although not anytime recently. 

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Neidhart was a great bully, so yeah, that holds water.

Heck, if you read Bret's book, even he admits that he struggled to find himself for those first couple of years in the company, and he obviously thinks highly of himself (as a potential G.O.A.T. should). 

I've only seen some of Neidhart's Stampede stuff, but in general, I think he was a very good tag guy and a forgettable singles guy. People underrate good tag workers in general unless they're also good singles workers. 

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