Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

FEBRUARY 2021 Discussion of Wrestling


Recommended Posts

If they had let DDP end Goldberg’s streak that would have been the best ending of a win streak because the diamond cutter was over enough that it would have been convincing but not hurt Goldberg’s aura. But yeah I can’t think of a win streak that was booked well when it ended.

  • Like 9
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/8/2021 at 6:51 AM, AxB said:

Did you see that Eminem video on the UFC Saturday? Because it was all making it look like Eminem is training for a fight and all the boxing and MMA imagery, but the crowd shot on the chorus was totally the Thunderdome.

There have been massive arguments back and forth over the years as to whether Eminem watches wrestling or not. Some people get hugely invested in it.

I'm late to the game on this, but the dude is from Detroit, 8-mile to be more specific, the idea that he doesn't watch wrestling is absurd.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Sublime said:

If they had let DDP end Goldberg’s streak that would have been the best ending of a win streak because the diamond cutter was over enough that it would have been convincing but not hurt Goldberg’s aura. But yeah I can’t think of a win streak that was booked well when it ended.

Jackhammer -> Diamond cutter outta nowhere would have took the roof off the place.

You could have had a scenario where Goldberg hits the spear, but is too tired/fatigued/hurt to get up and do the Jackhammer. Then, he finally gets Page up, long delayed suplex position, and then....Page falls, lands on his feet, Diamond Cutter. 1-2-3. 

I think by the time Page got the belt in 99, the wheels had already come off too much for it to be corrected. Beating Goldberg in that fashion would have made him a megastar that could have prolonged WCW just a little while longer. They would have had someone that could somewhat rival Austin and The Rock.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, RIPPA said:

I don't know what is worse

Bix defending us or the fact that Tobita clearly vanity searches

There are circles of Hell...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really simple to end a streak. Keep it simple and get heat on someone. DDP cleanly beating Goldberg would have been fine, but debuting Bam Bam in February to screw him and cause him to get pinned would have been better. Nash clearly and cleanly turning heel to cost him a match against Hogan would have worked too. Both of those create story beats, gets someone or something over, and gives the person a legitimate gripe. What they did was two complicated with multiple weeks to pay off. Keep it simple. I can see cases where you put over someone cleanly to end a streak but that's about elevating a younger talent who has clearly outpaced the person with the streak. Seems rare within the span of a year or two though.

But this isn't rocket science. Make it screwy. Set up new feuds. Have the person who loses not lose a beat in the eyes of the fans even though he ate a pinfall. You do it right and the babyface with the streak hasn't lost any momentum, has a big program against an even more heated heel or new heel threat, and the person who beat him has the buzz/momentum. You've got multiple programs, multiple stars, lots of heat all coming out of it. I don't see why this is hard at all.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Tatanka's streak getting ended by a cheating heel is the blueprint for this. The followup sucked because of Borga being a shithead, but coming out of that match, Borga was a made man for ending the streak and Tatanka was set up for a world title feud with Yokozuna.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Jackhammer -> Diamond cutter outta nowhere would have took the roof off the place.

You could have had a scenario where Goldberg hits the spear, but is too tired/fatigued/hurt to get up and do the Jackhammer. Then, he finally gets Page up, long delayed suplex position, and then....Page falls, lands on his feet, Diamond Cutter. 1-2-3. 

This is almost exactly what they did at Halloween Havoc '98, except there wasn't a long delay before the reversal. And Goldberg kicked out >:^|

17 minutes ago, Matt D said:

It's really simple to end a streak . . . Make it screwy.

Booooo

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

What about the initial Umaga run. Undefeated until taking a ‘fluke’ roll up to the ace, building to a rematch where the ace has to pretty much kill him to put him down. Although I suppose the new monster heel being built up for the champ is a bit of a different blueprint.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Matt D said:

It's really simple to end a streak. Keep it simple and get heat on someone. DDP cleanly beating Goldberg would have been fine, but debuting Bam Bam in February to screw him and cause him to get pinned would have been better. Nash clearly and cleanly turning heel to cost him a match against Hogan would have worked too.

To me, screwy finishes was the reason WCW was kinda flailing at the end of 98. They just had so much shit going on that they lost the plot. IIRC I think the summer of 98 was when Bischoff had that meeting w/ Turner brass where they put a ceiling on how far they could go. I think Eric panicked, saw what WWF was doing, and decided if they couldn't out raunch WWF that they would have a bajillion run-ins and a whole bunch of nonsensical shit inserted into their storylines. I don't think it's any coincidence, Eric was gone by the end of the next summer a year later. To me as a fan then, I thought if Goldberg should have lost, it should have been cleanly. And if you want that guy who beat him could have had a decent little reign, Goldberg beats him clean at SuperBrawl, and the title changes hands again at Slamboree or GAB. That's three really strong buyrates you could have gotten out of that. And then, you pivot to the next feuds for both guys. The only guy they really had going they had fucked up was Page at the time, and he was very much on upward trajectory. They had Wrath going for a little bit, but I don't think Bryan Clark really had the tools for the next level. He had an amazing look and the crowd started to get behind him, but I don't think he would have been the guy.

I just didn't buy Bam Bam as a top guy. I went back and watched the Raw when he turned babyface and left the Million Dollar Corporation. Shortly after, they had a Raw where Shawn had to be saved by Diesel and Bam Bam. All three are in the ring at the end of the show. He was clearly lesser than on the screen, unsure of himself, and just came off as a mid carder/third wheel hanging out with the big boys. Shawn and Kevin carried themselves like stars and Bigelow is in the ring like, "yeah, way to go guys." He was like a big 300+ pound mascot for the stars. 

When he was in WCW during that time period, he never jumped off the screen for me. I had already seen him just kinda be a guy in his other runs in the major companies. It felt like there was a time for Bam Bam to be star and that time was ten years earlier. Had he not kept bouncing back-and-forth from WWF to JCP/WCW, he could have been a really big star and I think his limitations as far as on screen presence and charisma could have been hidden better. In the Monday Night Wars era, he felt like a leftover from the New Generation who happened to still be around.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Hagan said:

So, what are the best barb wire and/or exploding ring barb wire matches to watch? 

I mean, has there ever been a GOOD one? It's all spectacle and voyeuristic bloodlust but is there one that legitimately can be called a great match? 

Best of them all was Terry Funk vs. Sabu at ECW Born to be Wired 1997 in a no rope barbed wire match. That's a really hard watch with Sabu tearing his bicep open, taping it up with wrist tape and both become entangled in the barbed wire so went to the finish.

Sabu vs. Abyss in the first Barbed Wire Massacre at TNA Turning Point 2005 and Barbed Wire Massacre III: LAX vs. oVe on Impact TV, 18th January 2018. Those had no ropes barbed wire with barbed wire weaponry. No exploding barbed wire.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Re; winning streaks - not sure if it counts but I think you can add Aries ending Joe's big ROH title run and being elevated as a top level guy as a good end result. And they played up the story of the cumulative damage and wear and tear Joe had taken over the course of his reign, which is a story someone should really run again in 2021

 

To add to the barbwire matches, I really liked the Onita vs Funk one for the spectacle of it. Necro vs Whitmer barbwire ring match from the ROH vs CZW fued was pretty great, as was the Homicide vs Corino one. David Starr and Janela had a shockingly good one a couple years ago on one of the Beyond Wrestlemania weekend shows. Wasn't one of the big Lawler vs Mantell matches a barbwire ring match? Maybe the first one ever?

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really include title reigns in streaks. I was thinking more in how undefeated streaks just always seem to founder at the point where it ends. I hate dirty finishes and I think that often happens to protect guys. If you did it right, then why does the guy who just tore through the roster need to be protected?

Streaks also need to end up like King of the Ring, a gimmick to nowhere. It tends to be a defining trait when it should be a stat. If your character is "I'm undefeated" then at some point you have nothing. 

The best win streak I can really think of is Matsunaga in I think it was Zero 1? He ran through the roster only to be stopped by an up and coming Yoshihito Sasaki. That also was a barbed wire no ropes match and I remember it being fairly brutal. 

Edited by Spontaneous
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Megumi Kudo had a great Barbed Wire match with Shinobu Kandori that not many people have seen. It's in the Secret Santo 2 thread somewhere.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, AxB said:

Megumi Kudo had a great Barbed Wire match with Shinobu Kandori that not many people have seen. It's in the Secret Santo 2 thread somewhere.

Speaking of Megumi, I find it hilarious but also super fitting AEW made the Revolution main event just some weeks after Megumi Kudo made her return after nearly two and half decades away from the ring to have a "match"* with Shark Tsuchiya. 

* I put quotations around match because I believe Shark is working on a prosthetic leg and it's not like Shark was exactly a super worker in her heyday. They probably tried their best and used it to rekindle their old feud with the help of Miwa Sato. Apparently, Megumi also used this as an excuse to get a new haircut.

135257681_407697253834111_53140312293194

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a "performance" and never promoted as a match since they were not actually going to be doing any moves. The ZERO1 sponsor for the Sumo Hall show that got postponed is a big 90's wrestling fan and wanted to bring in a bunch of retired/semi-retired stars for the show and do a simulation match where they're getting paid and not breaking a retirement vow since it's a performance and not a match. The Kudo performance was an example of how it would look with Kudo already being contracted with ZERO1 so she was not really in the position to say no and there was no doubt if Shark could physically do it, she would.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently Konnan is in Hospital with serious Kidney issues. Get well soon Konnan.

  • Sad 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, BAHU said:

It was a "performance" and never promoted as a match since they were not actually going to be doing any moves.

Based on how Shark was getting around from the video I saw, that was probably for the best.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/16/2021 at 1:18 PM, RIPPA said:

I am old enough to remember Dream Team members covering the Reebok logos on their Olympic gear with American Flags so to not piss off Nike

And I am old enough to assume you meant Valentine and Beefcake until eventually figuring out you were talking about a basketball team.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Spontaneous said:

I don't really include title reigns in streaks. I was thinking more in how undefeated streaks just always seem to founder at the point where it ends. I hate dirty finishes and I think that often happens to protect guys. If you did it right, then why does the guy who just tore through the roster need to be protected?

Streaks also need to end up like King of the Ring, a gimmick to nowhere. It tends to be a defining trait when it should be a stat. If your character is "I'm undefeated" then at some point you have nothing. 

The best win streak I can really think of is Matsunaga in I think it was Zero 1? He ran through the roster only to be stopped by an up and coming Yoshihito Sasaki. That also was a barbed wire no ropes match and I remember it being fairly brutal. 


Seamlessly weaving the simultaneous unbeaten streak and barbed wire match discussions together. Nicely done - championship caliber posting right here.

And Stop The Matsunaga was sooooo good. Always love the angle where the heel gets desperate and brings out the maniacal cleaner against the baby faces, but then can’t put the genie back in the bottle. 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, kafkonia said:

It's so weird how goofy Orton is entertaining and yet the rest of the time I don't want to see him at all.

I find that time has been kind to Orton in that while I don't excuse his past transgressions he seems like he's been a fairly decent guy.  I guess maturity can do that to somebody.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RIPPA locked and unpinned this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...